Stolen Number Plates - What to do if i get PCN, speeding/red light tickets etc

[90DC]

My partner and I spent the day out yesterday with the kids, walking by the river, feeding ducks, you know, general day off kind of stuff.

 

We had been to a couple of places and had spent around 4 hours out, got back to the car for the second time (After switching locations etc) and i was about to put the pushchair in the boot and noticed the back number plate had gone, i looked around the front and the front one had gone too.

 

So of course i rang the Police, obtained an incident number and crime number, despite the fact that nobody came to see us, and that was that. (I explained the whole story about being out etc)

 

I've just looked on the internet to see what happens if somebody gets a Parking Notice or Speeding Ticket and have found nothing. (The Police told me it would now be on the PNC and if a crime happens that involves that registration plate, it would be cross referenced and my Partner (Whos car it is) would not be 'done' for it as it be.

 

But i am a little worried, and what should i do, say the registration plate is used to evade a speed camera, or down London in the Congestion area etc? She's only been passed less than two years, has three points already for a silly traffic light skip, and if she gets another three points she is technically disqualified.

 

Please help me, i'd like to know what to do, apparantly 60,000 registration plates were stolen in 2008, which is almost a 50% rise over three years.

[Jamberson]

It's very common. Basically, you have reported the number plate stolen, which is the right thing to do.

 

If you get any speeding tickets, PCNs etc, you must write and advise that you believe your number plate has been cloned. PCNs are easier - the CEO records the tax disc number. A photocopy of your own tax disc will be more or less conclusive proof.

 

Also there are photos in existence in virtually all cases. They will show details which prove it;s a different car - window stickers, dents, aerials, sun strips - it is possible to differentiate between two different cars.

 

If you are unlucky enough to be a victim of this, then help the authorities out by providing your own details, and you should be fine. Also report any further developments to the police.

[90DC]

Thank you Jamberson.

 

I'll wait to see if anything happens. Hopefully it wont, but i'll take your advice if needed. I'll post any follow ups on here.

[Jamberson]

It probably won't. Normally if someone's going to clone plates, they make up a pair of new ones. They don't pinch an actual plate - no need. But in the event anything arises, here's a good place to come for advice.

[lamma]

get a new number from the DVLA ASAP - and the old one scrapped. its easier than dealing with PCNs, speeding tickets and CC charges that may come your way. or worse if your cloned plates are used is a serious crime. scrapping the stolen number may just get a cloner caught by an ANPR equiped police vehicle - that would be nice. keep a detailed diary for a while as well.

[kwaks]

In the meantime put a sticker on the front window and rear, to enable to show it is a different vehicle should they use it on the same make/model/colour.

[90DC]

Thank you all for your help, advice and support. I'll consider having the number plate changed.

[lamma]

and put a unique sticker in the front and back today. suggest you do get the plates changed. if the clone starts filling up in garages and driving away or being involved in more serious crimes you will be in a world of hurt. a mass of PCNs will be enough to give you big problems.

[buzby]

I'd suggest replacing the number is a pointless exercise. Will changing the number prevent cloning? Of course not, Not even if the plate itself isn't removed from the vehicle.

 

The element of proof still remains the the prosecuting authority - as they can no longer state that the VRM is the sole arbiter of proof required, and if challenged, gives them a big headache if that is all they have.

 

Usually care is taken to ensure the 'donor' vehicles is at least a reasonable match (model/colour) to prevent bells ringing and provide unwanted attention. The older the vehicle becomes.... the better it is! (Pre-prefix and suffix).

 

Since a change of number to your own vehicle will require a fee to be paid to the DVLA, and probably your insurer (details change), your concerns have already been noted, so you've done all that can be reasonably expected of you.

[Jamberson]

When plates are cloned, the cloner makes duplicates (hence the term "cloned"). It would be foolish to steal actual plates when all you need in the reg number written down. Why? Because the owner is put on alert (as here), there is a risk of being filmed or caught in the act of stealing them, the would-be cloner is in posession of stolen plates which could be found by someone, the plates may not fit properly to their vehicle - and so on.

 

I don't know what happened here - never heard of somone having their plates pinched like this - but I think it unlikely these are going to be used on someone's vehicle in the way being suggested.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Perhaps London is different (cos of the kengestion charge, perhaps?).

 

Here theft of number plates is such an issue that the Police give away free special theft prevention screws for securing number plates to cars.

 

Seems so much easier to nick someone else's plates and stick them on a similar car than to have to find someone dodgy to make the plates up without a V5.

 

Not true cloning but a real problem!

 

Take a shufti here.

[sameagle]

It may be more common than you realise.

 

A Window Cleaner friend of mine both of his stolen two years ago, [staffordshire], he's also had somebody tampering with the replacements, and the local Police said it's quite common.

 

If it was to disguise a vehicle for a bank raid, I hope they didn't transfer them to a similar vehicle, can you imagine trying a speedy getaway in a Suzuki Carry 1.3 !

 

Sam

[lamma]

presumption of inocence is long gone in practice especially in motoring and parking matters. many victims of stolen number plates have ended up with thousands in charges and bailiffs at the door. you have to protect yourself nowadays.

[buzby]

There's no 'presumption of innocence' implied.

 

Simply that a challenge that the vehicle claimed is not that of the RK is a pretty believeable and routine assertion to make. Certainly, do nothing and then the problems snowball, but then -the same could be said about anything that is ignored.

 

As cloning often takes place without the removal of the original plates. I had great fun proving that my 3m high RV did not park in a Council-run mult-istorey.

[lamma]

it is an assertion routinely ignored especially by council over PCNs and the SCPs over speeding.

[buzby]

Ignored? Point to someone who has advised a cloned plate was an issue, and whose representation was ignored. I'm unaware of the precise statistics, but lets assume out of all the parking tickets, speeding ANPR, Red Light camera, congestion charging fines that use the displayed plate to pursue the driver, I'd suggest less that 1-2% are a cause for concern to drivers. Making 98-99% of such claims legitimate. Faced with those levels of 'no contest' admissions of identity, why would you expect anything else from the pursuer?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I think what Lamma is saying is that when the allegation is made by the issuance of a PCN or NIP the onus falls on the motorist to prove their innocence rather on the LA or SCP to prove guilt.

 

(And I'm not going to get into the issue of "guilt" for a civil contravention because it is a correct linguistic term in this context! )

 

The issue here is that this reversal of what may be seen as the "normal" position (that the burden of proof falls on those making the allegation) is one created by statute.

[lamma]

agreed Bernie. Thanks.

[buzby]

Strange word that 'onus'. Meaning; "a difficult or disagreeable obligation, task, burden, etc." (from www.dictionary.com).

 

I certainly don't see it as that - it is correcting a mistaken assumption. Having cast doubt on their 'evidence' they'll need more data to be successful in their pursuit. My VED number would be good, in the absence of something sustainable they are being put to Proof - and they have to put up or shut up.

 

Not quite requiring me to prove my whereabouts were not at the scene of this supposed infraction of rules.

[lamma]

casting doubt is not enough. there are numerous cases of the owners of cars that have been cloned being ignored by councils and ending with with bailiffs at the door. you have to protrect yourself against councils ignoring facts never mind doubts all the time in pursuit of money. NIPs can also be a big problem with a clone out there. If you report the clone your number goes on ANPR so you can expect to be stopped lots of times. cheapest quickest and easiest way to avoid problems is to change the plate.

[buzby]

But surely you are talking of joint incompetence? How can Bailiffs be involved, especially if the RK did not take appropriate defensive action? Bury your head and see what happens.

 

I wouldn't trust a Council to do a zip up correctly - and I'm currently chasing Glasgow City Council for rejecting my representation until 2 weeks before going to the Parking Adjudicator, then they 'cancelled' the ticket, thinking that would be an end to the matter.

 

It wasn't. I requested a fresh hearing and I told the Adjudicator I wanted full expenses (almost £200) as the Council had all the information they required to cancel the ticket when the Representation was made - but they chose to ignore it.

 

I'm expecting the outcome to be known later this month. But if I had done nothing (assuming it was a cloned plate issue) then I would have been found liable because I did nothing to resolve the issue.

 

There's little point being a professional victim, but everyone needs to protect their interests. It would be foolish not to.

[patdavies]

Cloning of plates is one thing, but simply nicking 'em is another - it is is usually done as petty theft.

 

My son's private plates were taken off his car overnight (Berkshire) and by the time he found out in the moring, they had already been used for a 'drive off' on a totally different model of car.

[Jamberson]

Bet he was able to absolve himself of any involvement, no problem?

[90DC]

Just an update, i have applied to have the VRM changed due to this, i'll keep you all posted. I've just been reading the comments and there is some pretty interesting stuff.

 

Particularly the one about the 3m RV in a council multi storey!!!

[buzby]

I'm assuming you're paying for the re-reg yourself? If the DVLA do it as a freeebie, it'll be a first!