Capquest/Amex CCA sent application form, what next?

[Nishikigoi]

Having got the "we are going to nail you to a cross" letters and been fed up of all the calls, I found this great site....

 

I sent my CCA request with a £1 postal order, got the usual "we need 28 days" letter and today (the very last 12+2 day:sad:) I got a photocopy of my "60 second application form".

 

This is interesting as it is ONLY an application form, not a credit agreement, plus it was filled in while in a shopping centre so not a 'desk' or correct environment (therefore a cancellation period allowed?).

 

It does have however the line:

"This is a Agreement regulated by the consumer act 1974. Sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms" How does this affect things?

 

As there is no reference to credit limit (though I did put a £1000 balance transfer from another card on the form), there are no repayment terms or T&C's I do not think it satisfies a CCA?

 

Most importantly it's only the application form, they could have said, no not a chance! How can this prove debt? :?

 

I'm pretty sure I need to send a rejection letter like this?

 

Cheers for any help:cool:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

 

[cerberusalert]

Yes send that letter.

[Nishikigoi]

Yes send that letter.

 

Sending and I've told them I want my quid back if they can't get the paperwork!

[themagician]

Sending and I've told them I want my quid back if they can't get the paperwork!

SCHWEEEEEEET!

[Nishikigoi]

SCHWEEEEEEET!

 

 

Had to be done:wink::grin:

[Nishikigoi]

I got a letter back from Crapquest! Inside was another copy of my application form that they claim is acceptable as the card was approved, also a copy of a CCA that they say would have been sent to me...

 

AFAIK, the application request approved or not is not enforceable and by telling me the enclosed copy of the CCA terms was as I would have received (and unsigned) it's all a load of tosh?

[Nishikigoi]

I could do with some advice here, the CCA they have sent me has a box for my signature but nothing in it. So they have a '60 application form' without the information required and an unsigned CCA as I see it?

[cerberusalert]

Ignore them for now, they know as well as we do that what they have sent is unacceptable and certainly unenforceable.

[Nishikigoi]

Managed to get the scanner going, so I've scanned what they regard as a compliant document......Bless!

 

Not sure if they should have signed the boxwhere it should have been or if the stamp is enough? Either way there are no terms of repayment, interest, credit limit etc etc etc....

 

[Nishikigoi]

Also just trawled through the unsigned CCA they sent me as "the same as what you would have received" and it is missing parts 1-5 as it starts at 6.1! So it's not even a complete set!

 

The letter asks me to call and let them know how I want to proceed, I'm not calling them, let them do the leg work in chasing an unenforcable debt.

 

Should I send them a final 'Go away' letter with another request for my £1 back?

Edited April 3, 2010 by Nishikigoi

[cerberusalert]

Ignore them for now, you've already disputed the enforceability of that 'application' form & the ball's firmly in their court now.

[Nishikigoi]

Ignore them for now, you've already disputed the enforceability of that 'application' form & the ball's firmly in their court now.

 

Cheers

 

My only concern is if they try to take the £1 postal order as payment on the alleged debt, but I guess my copy of the letter stating I acknowledge no debt would squash that.

 

I want my £1 back:D:rolleyes:

 

I've also just donated to CAG by PayPal, I'd hope that anyone who has been helped or even just feels 'empowered' by reading the forum makes a donation!

[Nishikigoi]

Little update.....

 

capquest have gone the way of the DoDo, I sent them an additional letter stating (again) that they had not supplied the correct documents and that the £1 should be returned. Also that since this debt is correctly in dispute they cannot and should not pass it on to any other DCA's.

 

Utter silence, not a peep and no £1, but I'm guessing they hope someone is stroppy enough to take them to court for £1 and they could then open a can of CCA worms in court.

 

Happy days as JB Debt recovery have also stopped ringing, I've just opened a NatWest 'Step' account and a 35% Capital one credit card. I don't want to borrow but I'd like to start repairing my credit record with regular payments in time for these other problems to be stat barred in 18 months.

[cerberusalert]

Both the NatWest a/c & the Crap1 will be recorded on your credit file & updated monthly so should go some way to upping your credit score.

[Nishikigoi]

Merry xmas from Crapquest....

 

 

However they still can't quite 'get' that they have still sent an application form, but the clock is ticking VERY fast for them now as it gets to SB'd

 

I'm interested if anyone else is getting these letters and if they are linked to OFT (etc) action.....

[cerberusalert]

They'll have to pick on someone else now.

[Nishikigoi]

They'll have to pick on someone else now.

 

I'm gutted

[ScarletPimpernel]

As this started a while ago, it would be interesting to know if the amount Amex are claiming includes their silly 'file referral fee'. This used to be a feature of all their accounts, and many CAGgers challenged them. Amex and their various lickspittle DCAs always maintained that they are vaild. The OFT, however, disagreed, and imposed requirements on Amex forbidding them from adding these fees.

[Nishikigoi]

I never did an SAR as I was waiting to see how hard they wanted to push this so I don't know (or care in a few months! ) but these low lives just don't quit so I can expect to be batting off SB'd debt until I croak no doubt!