Sheriff puts Bank of Scotland to proof on bank charges

[rdm2006]

Unfortunately I can't help who is considered to be the "Official" consumers association lol

[Docman]

Well, what do the regulations define as a 'consumer association'? If it is a wide definition of a group of consumers who have agreed to bound by certain terms & conditions to further consumer aims, it may well be that CAG does qualify as a 'consumer association'.

[bustthematrix]

Unfortunately I can't help who is considered to be the "Official" consumers association lol

My point is, make makes Which? the official one? Aren't they just one of many? Sure they've been around a long time and may even be the best known but who decides who the official UK Consumer Association is? Are they a Charity or for-profit entity?

 

Just asking really....

[rdm2006]

"Which" are a registered charity (according to their website)

[Bigdebtor]

I would think ANY "consumer association" could do this i.e CAG, MSE etc.

 

Surely "a consumer association" is simply just an "association of consumers" - so any such association (even a buying group) should be able to make such a complaint?

 

Instead of debating this excellent piece of intelligence ad nauseam on here, why can we not simply ask the question and seek clarity of what is meant by "consumer association"?

 

BD

[rebel11]

All you need to do is get CAG, LB, Moneysaving etc to band together, you'd have at least 1m people that they could represent. It's simple.

[bustthematrix]

The important thing is not to lose sight of the power of the idea. I suspect that pretty much ANY reasonably sized association of consumers should be sufficient to initiate the complaint referred to in the Regs as pointed out by rdm2006.

 

Of course, it's not a waste of time to ask the OFT to clarify what they mean and ask them to name a few organisations that qualifies in their view.

[rdm2006]

What does BF think about this?........... Do we stand any chances?

 

Perhaps we could band together with "Which" as well as the others - now that would be good

[Bigdebtor]

Totally agree with Rebel and BTM.

 

However the REAL BIG QUESTION is - Can we ask OFT a question that will be answered unambiguously, fully and correctly in our life time?

 

Their track record (along with FOS, FSA etc.) in dealing with the Banks is hardly enouraging!

 

BD

[rdm2006]

Do OFT regulate who is or is not a consumer association?

 

Rebel11 - should this be moved to a separate thread?

 

 

and to hell with it - lets get CAB and Consumer Focus to join in too

Edited January 20, 2011 by rdm2006

[Bigdebtor]

I think we're getting very hung up on this. Does anyone have an e-mail address for OFT - so we can get an answer as to what was meant?

 

I am sure ANY association of consumers could make the complaint. I can believe they meant Which? to have a monopoly on this.

 

BD

[rebel11]

John Fingleton, OFT Chief Executive, Just mark it for his attention. Just a note, these are my personal thoughts.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/contactus;jsessionid=82E56D119BBB40087A6A5D19293C8080#named3

 

 

 

I think we're getting very hung up on this. Does anyone have an e-mail address for OFT - so we can get an answer as to what was meant?

 

I am sure ANY association of consumers could make the complaint. I can believe they meant Which? to have a monopoly on this.

 

BD

[enaid]

Under the Enterprise Act 2002 only designated consumer bodies can make 'super complaints' to the OFT. These currently include Which?, CAMRA, CAB, Consumer Direct and the National Consumer Council.

 

Only consumer bodies designated by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Section 11(5)) can make a super-complaint.

 

Notwithstanding it would be utterly pointless any designated consumer group asking the OFT to investigate bank charges because they already have and failed. Remember?

 

[Bigdebtor]

OFT failed on a VERY NARROW point of Law - as the SC Judges were at pains to stress (unusually) when they said they were NOT there to rule on the fairness of bank charges - only that very narrow point of law which the Banks had trapped OFT into fighting on its own.

 

The main fight continues - as this thread shows. Not exploiting any other avenue is just defeatist.

 

I notice that, apart from CAMRA, the organisations you mention are about as useless as OFT, FOS and FSA - which will suit our old Etonian coalition Government down to the ground!

 

I also thought CAG (or The Consumer Forums) had recently made a super complaint - not certain and can't remember result - if finished). If I'm wrong then CAG should certainly seek such designation as it's a lot more effective than all the others mentioned put together!

 

BD

[rebel11]

Hi Bigdebtor,

 

'Where theres a will theres a way', just as an example 'Poll Tax', what happened to it? It just takes people power, there were over a million people whose cases were frozen

awaiting the SC Judgement. That is a lot of people.

[Bigdebtor]

Rebel

 

I agree. Hopefully GLC will win the day and then the flood gates will be opened! The Bankers shouldn't be in a rush to spend their £7 billion bonuses as it could all be needed to repay what they've robbed from us!

 

BTW can you confirm if CAG did make a "super complaint" some time last year - or is my memory failing me again?

 

BD

[enaid]

Where does your figure of one million come from?

 

According the the Ministry of Justice it was more like 65000 BBC NEWS | Business | Frozen overdraft claims revealed

 

[rebel11]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/banking/6651177/Overdraft-charges-how-the-Supreme-Court-ruling-affects-you.html

 

Theres a lot of mention in your link of the year 2007. So probably very, very out of date.

[Bigdebtor]

I heard the figure was likely to exceed 1 million - since many people had not done anything - just awaiting developments. Also many were just fighting one battle - but had several other accounts to fight for if the first was successful.

 

As I said, Mr Banker - don't spend your £7 billion just yet!

 

BD

 

PS - does "enaid" stand for "everyone needs an incorrigible doubter"?

[manchesteruni]

• The Campaign for Real Ale Limited (CAMRA)
  
• The Consumer Council for Water
  
• The Consumers' Association (trading as "Which?")
  
• The General Consumer Council for Northern Ireland (GCCNI)
  
• National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux (NACAB)
  
• The National Consumer Council (trading as "Consumer Focus")
  
• The Scottish Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux (trading as Citizens Advice Scotland (CAS))
  

 

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/enforcement-of-consumer-law/super-complaints

[manchesteruni]

the first plus consumer group put a super complaint in which was accepted despite not having designated status

 

http://www.firstpluscomplaints.co.uk/the-news.html

 

 

I'm not sure what you are supercomplaining about though to be honest - the reciprocal right to charge for letters / late payments ?

[Bigdebtor]

I was right. Consumer Forums DID submit a super complaint last year. See below.

 

Also if you google "Super Complaints Consumer Forums" it's VERY interesting how much recent activity there has been by other forums in recent months!

 

BD

 

I Barclays FirstPlus Super Complaint

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The Consumer Action Group FirstPlus Complaints have last week submitted a Super Complaint to the Office of Fair Trading in relation to breaches of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations due to their failure to pass on any of the base rate / FHBR reductions to their secured loan customers.

 

The OFT have agreed to consider it even though we haven't been given designated body status.

 

Edit - Download link removed - it can be viewed via the FirstPlus Complaints forum.

 

Anyone wanting to know more can join us at www.firstpluscomplaints.co.uk

[manchesteruni]

All you need to do is get CAG, LB, Moneysaving etc to band together, you'd have at least 1m people that they could represent. It's simple.

:lol: :lol:

 

I think Martin considered it before (but I can't find a reference for that)

 

The guidance for applying to be a designated body is on the BIS site - http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file50334.pdf

[Bigdebtor]

the first plus consumer group put a super complaint in which was accepted despite not having designated status

 

http://www.firstpluscomplaints.co.uk/the-news.html

 

 

I'm not sure what you are supercomplaining about though to be honest - the reciprocal right to charge for letters / late payments ?

 

I was in the process of posting the same thing - but to answer your question YES - WE should also have the right to charge them late payment charges for them taking 4 days to show a cheque as cleared funds - or when they screw up credits or DD/SO mandates etc (quite frequent with SO mandates before you ask), the right to charge them £39 when we have to write to them to tell them of THEIR mistakes etc. etc.

 

However the KEY thing is that THEY should NOT have a right which is not reciprocated.

 

BD

[rdm2006]

the first plus consumer group put a super complaint in which was accepted despite not having designated status

 

http://www.firstpluscomplaints.co.uk/the-news.html

 

 

I'm not sure what you are supercomplaining about though to be honest - the reciprocal right to charge for letters / late payments ?

 

I am complaining about a term in my contract which has allowed the bank to charge me £1,270.00 over 12 months when it made an error - ok, I got that back, but we had suffered for 12 months and were offered only £100.00 as compensation for the error. (insult to injury are words that spring to mind)

 

And even then it took them 6 months of denial before i got it back - when they were holding the paperwork which proved it was their fault all along.

 

on top of that i had to remortgage my home to pay off a debt (Overdraft) that would not have existed had they not made an error.....

 

my home has been repossessed (fortunately under the Mortgage Rescue Scheme)

 

Do I sound P'd off at all?

 

Im sure if cag (and others) got together with which it could be done

Edited January 21, 2011 by rdm2006