Help please needed urgently

[mhnurse66]

Hi

Please can someone help, to cut a very long story short, we had a visit from a bailiff in November, he gave us the chance to pay in instalments. We sent back the paperwork and offered £50.00 a fortnight, Rossendales wrote back to us and said that this was unacceptable and that we had to pay £500.00 per month for three months. We could not afford to pay that much money and duly wrote back to them and told them, their reply basically was bad luck!

We have just had another visit from a bloke who says he has a warrant from the court to take our goods if we don't pay by tonight. The actual bill is now £1800 and he wants it like now! He says he will be back tomorrow to empty the house apart from beds and bed linen if we don't pay by tonight, even if we are not in. I dont know what to do, I realise we should have paid in the first place but I could really do with some helpful advice.

[seanamarts]

Is this for council tax

has he ever been in your home and levied on any thing.

have you asked for a break down of charges..

did you make an arrangement of how much to pay with said bailiff

[mhnurse66]

Hi

Yes it is for council tax, stupidly when they first came round we let them in and they levied our three piece suite, a black coffee table, sony tv (9 years old) Glass table and 4 chairs, black wall unit (from ikea- bought for thirty quid) and my laptop, which is in my son in laws name. I have the receipt to prove that.

I didn't ask for a break down of charges, however last time they came round it was £1547.00 now he says it has gone up to £1727! So thats £180.00 for this visit????

I didn't make a payment arrangement with this particular bailiff, it was through their office when a different one came round, however they wanted £500 a month we which said we could not pay.

I am very worried, we have our eldest daughter staying with us at the moment and she has a five year old son and 6 month old baby. They have just moved back from Germany and their house is not ready to move into to, some of the stuff in our house is theirs but we cannot prove it If they take my grandsons Wii he will be distraught

[mhnurse66]

I also never thought to ask him to look at his paperwork, he hasnt left any, so i dont know if he was lying about the court. He phoned someone while he was here and then said they have told him to take goods. Then he changed his mind and said we could have tonight to sort out money and he would backdate receipt if we paid him. He said he would put it down on his paperwork as sorted.

[hallowitch]

if the bailiff removed the table &chairs & your 3 piece would you and the family who usually live with you have somewhere to sit

[mhnurse66]

Apart from the floor no

[mhnurse66]

Can he take other stuff that is not listed on the WPO?

[hallowitch]

no he cant take other stuff only the stuff listed on WPO

 

have you been in touch with the council over this

 

your table & chairs and suite are exempt goods the laptop does not belong to you

in my opinion the bailiff has an invalid levy

they should send you a letter giving you a time& date for re-entry to remove

 

have you been paying anything towards this to the council/bailiff

i say bailiffs but i don't suppose they are excepting anything less than £500 a month

[mhnurse66]

I have tried to contact the council and inspite of several emails and letters they have not responded, I said to him about having a letter with a time and date on it and he said he didnt need one! What are the implications of having an invalid levy? should I be ringing him or something?

[hallowitch]

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed.

[hallowitch]

you must inform the council and the bailiff company that you believe you have an invalid levy as exempt goods and goods that don't belong to you are included try if possible to e-mail the notice of seizure of goods and inventory to the council

also the receipt for the laptop should be sent to the bailiff company and the council

[hallowitch]

Irregular Distress (Levy) by Bailiffs

With thanks to Tomtubby

[edit]MRS AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL

This is another well known legal cases that has been relied upon many times when either issuing proceedings, or one that can be referred to when writing a letter of complaint. This case concerns a lady by the name of Mrs Ambrose who claimed that a levy (distress) was irregular as bailiffs had removed goods from the home that were necessary for “providing the basic domestic needs of the family”

Background:

Mrs Ambrose and her husband had an unpaid Council Tax bill for £851.00 owing to Nottingham City Council. In September 2003, Rossendale’s Bailiffs attended at their home to levy distress on goods. Rossendale’s had entered the property, where they identified items that were listed on a Walking Possession. Next to those items listed, the bailiff wrote the words: “and all other goods on the premises unless exempt or specially exempt by statute.” The bailiff had not looked around the house; he had merely entered one room and was therefore unable to see which items were “exempt”

Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 lists the following items as being exempt from seizure:

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

"Such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying basic domestic needs of the person and family".

As the Council Tax remained unpaid, the bailiff returned with a van to seize furniture that included a sofa, footstool and two dining chairs.

District Judge Cooper agreed that the seizure was irregular as the bailiff had removed furniture that was necessary for “satisfying the basic domestic needs of Mrs Ambrose and her family” This was because, amongst other items removed, the bailiffs had removed 2 dining chairs. They left behind the table and the remaining two chairs. As the family consisted of Mrs & Mrs Ambrose and one child, the bailiffs should have left seating for 3 people, not two.

Nottingham City Council had argued that there could not be any irregularity as Mrs Ambrose had signed the Walking Possession. This was rejected by Judge Cooper who agreed that Mrs Ambrose was faced with the prospect of having her goods removed unless she signed the Walking Possession.

As important as the above is, the Judge also agreed that the wording on the Walking Possession was deficient in that the reference to “all other goods on the premises unless exempt” did not specify what those other goods were, and which ones were exempt. The Judge agreed that the levy was also irregular for this reason.

__________________

[seanamarts]

Firstly they cannot take any thing that belongs to a child, secondly they cannot take anything that belongs to any one else, thirdly they cannot take your sofa. the levy made, to me is an illegal levy as he has levied on items that he is not allowed to list. so theoretically cant charge for this levy. some one correct me if im wrong.. you need to ask for a break down on charges.

[crockie]

I might have this wrong but I also thought that the stuff they levied also had to be worth enough to cover the Bailiffs fees + all the auction fees and a reasonable amount of the debt.

 

If they cant take the Laptop as that is legally owned by someone else then will the value of whats left actually cover the fees + a substantial amount off the debt???

 

I would try ringing the council and asking to speak to head of recoveries and go in with a two pronged attack. 1, invalid levy as per Hallowitch, 2, the goods they are threatening to take are not worth enough to cover the fees and a large amount of the debt. I would say that you have attempted to make an arrangment but the Bailiff has refused.

 

I am assuming that your suite etc are not brand new, from what I have been reading lately second hand furniture and a 9 year old TV will not raise much at auction.

 

Cant offer any more help, sorry, just throwing ideas into the pot but there is plenty of people on here with very good advice.

 

I have managed to get Bailiff action stopped once via Head of Recoveries, the next time I had to go up a level to Head of Finance. It is allways worth a try.

[seanamarts]

Firstly they cannot take any thing that belongs to a child, secondly they cannot take anything that belongs to any one else, thirdly they cannot take your sofa. the levy made, to me is an illegal levy as he has levied on items that he is not allowed to list. so theoretically cant charge for this levy. some one correct me if im wrong.. you need to ask for a break down on charges.

started to write this when you first posted then halfway through had a visitor ... your in good hands with hallowitch here

[hallowitch]

national standards for enforcement agents

 

 

List A

 

1) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress at the instance of a creditor in respect of a debt due to him by the debtor-

a) clothing reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household;

b) implements, tools of trade, books or other equipment including a car or van reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household in the practice of the debtor's or such member's profession, trade or business, not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

c) medical aids or medical equipment reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of his household;

d) books or other articles including a computer reasonably required for the education or training of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

e) toys for the use of any child who is a member of the debtor's household;

f) articles reasonably required for the care or upbringing of a child who is a member of the debtor's household.

 

2) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress if they are at the time of the distress in a dwellinghouse and are reasonably required for the use in the dwellinghouse of the person residing there or a member of the household-

a) beds or bedding;

b) household linen;

c) chairs or settees;

d) tables;

e) food;

f) lights or light fittings;

g) heating appliances;

h) curtains;

i) floor coverings;

j) furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food;

k) refrigerators;

l) articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes;

m) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse;

n) furniture used for storing-

(i) clothing, bedding or household linen;

(ii) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse; or

(iii) utensils used for cooking or eating food;

 

o) articles used for safety in the dwellinghouse or of household articles

3) The Lord Chancellor may by regulations add to the list set out in subsection (2) above, or delete or vary any of the items contained in that list.

We consider that under 1(b) and 1(d) the preferable aggregate value might be £1500.

 

List B

 

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family.

[mhnurse66]

Thanks you so much, I am going to try to ring council now and scan this WPO so I can email it too.

My 3 piece was second hand three years and cost £50.00, so not worth anything

[hallowitch]

I would say that you have attempted to make an arrangement but the Bailiff has refused.

 

thats a very good argument

you have not defaulted on an agreement as there is no agreement in place through no fault of your own

[hallowitch]

crockie your not wrong happy to tip you when I'm allowed to tip you again

 

I might have this wrong but I also thought that the stuff they levied also had to be worth enough to cover the Bailiffs fees + all the auction fees and a reasonable amount of the debt.

 

If they cant take the Laptop as that is legally owned by someone else then will the value of whats left actually cover the fees + a substantial amount off the debt???

[fluffy_bunny]

I have tried to contact the council and inspite of several emails and letters they have not responded, I said to him about having a letter with a time and date on it and he said he didnt need one! What are the implications of having an invalid levy? should I be ringing him or something?

 

Which council is this?

[crockie]

crockie your not wrong happy to tip you when I'm allowed to tip you again

 

quote]

 

Thank you Hallowitch

 

The help I received from you and others on this fantastic forum, has given me the spirit to read and read and read in the hope that I can help others when they are in need

 

I cannot believe what Bailiffs and councils are getting up to and the only way to stop it is to fight back

[ploddertom]

You've had some good advice so far follow what is said. All I would like to add is to contact your local Councillor now this evening as a matter of urgency, He has access to those further up at the Council. If necessary invite him round and show him this site.

 

PT

[mhnurse66]

Its West Lindsey DC, I have just spoken to them and they wont take it back, the have told me to contact the bailiff and see what the minimum is that he would accept....already done...He said this afternoon he wants all the money or goods. Have got a copy of the WPO and am just trying to write an email suggesting that it is invalid etc.etc.

[mhnurse66]

Thank you all, you have been so very helpful. I felt so helpless a few hours ago and thought I would come home to an empty house tomorrow....I still might but at least I know I have put a bit of a fight Will keep you all informed and Thank you again.

[hallowitch]

Its West Lindsey DC, I have just spoken to them and they wont take it back, the have told me to contact the bailiff and see what the minimum is that he would accept....already done...He said this afternoon he wants all the money or goods. Have got a copy of the WPO and am just trying to write an email suggesting that it is invalid etc.etc.

 

 

thats nothing new they all say they

 

get everything done in writing first by e-mail followed up by recorded delivery letter

 

any previous correspondence you have to/from the bailiffs send to the council with you letter send it to head of revenue's