mobility scooter sale

[cavvy]

hi all

 

not sure if this is in the correct place but will see if any one can help

 

my father passed away last year and due to disability he used to have an electric scooter

 

it hadnt been used for a few months prior to his death and afterwards my mum asked me to try and sell it

 

i contacted the company who my father always bought his scooters from and they said they would collect it repair it and advertise it for a percentage of the fee

 

we agreed to this and i saw the scooter on their website for sale

 

it sold recently but the balance they have sent my mum seems very low compared to what we were expecting

 

we have asked twice for a breakdown of the transaction and they are avoiding giving one out which makes me a little suspicious

 

the problem is we never signed a contract with them for the sale and have no paperwork whatsoever apart from a couple of letters

 

if anyone can shed any light on our legal standpoint that would be most helpful

 

i will probably be contacting citizens advice and trading standards to see what they can do

 

thanks

[buzby]

You will need to have established exactly what the arrangement was. They may well have taken it for resale at a percentage, but if they had to repair, refurb or replace batteries, this would have come out of any funds you were due. HOWEVER, in the absence of a formal (written) declaration of costs, your chance of doing anything - other than complaining - would be slim.

 

Who were these letters from, and what did they cover? With no agreed arrangement, they can successfully argue you asked them to sell it at the best price, which is what they did - you would be in no position to argue otherwise.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, cavvy.

 

I'll move this thread to a more appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[cavvy]

the only letters we have are the one which came with the cheque and the follow up one when i asked for a full breakdown of the costs and they skirted the issue

 

the scooter was up for sale at £800 i know it needed a repair and new batteries and they were taking 15% but to be only left with £75 seems a bit strange

 

will contact them again to try and get a list of costs and if no joy as said earlier i will contact cab and trading standards

[postggj]

You Have Been Conned

 

Is The Scooter Still On The Web Site

 

Copy It

 

Trading Standard This One

[buzby]

These letters are 'after the event'. What you need is proof of what you originally agreed would be the fee for repair and sale. Whilst not making excuses for them, as a dealer, they also have to factor in an element for work that MAY be required as they will be liable under SOGA to the new owner.

 

All of this will come from your 'profit' from the sale, and unless you can show an explicit agreement as to the costs due to you (to support your argument of being ripped off) you're pretty much up the proverbial creek without a paddle. They could have asked for £800, but it would have to have been a pretty top of the range model for that to be achieved, as there are some superb 8mph class machines out there, NEW with a 2 year warranty for £799 retail.

 

I would expect they will have sold it for much less, probably nearer £400 - and replacement batteries/repair PLUS their profit margin could easily have left around the £100 mark. By not setting the minimum costs you would be prepared to accept, you have no recourse as they will simply say it was surplus to your requirements and they were told to get rid of it for as much as they could.

 

They have no obligation to you to provide the list of costs, and I agree this may assist your understanding, but you have no 'right' to this. CAB and TS will not act for you, and if you want to attempt to make an issue of it, a solicitor's letter may do the trick to squeeze some money out of them, but they could resist and you are in po position to object as it all boils down to your 'agreement', as they did what they said they would do by selling the scooter, you cannot ask for it back, and as the firm was effectively acting as your agent, unless you have documentary evidence to put in front of a judge (to show they were in breach) you would be wasting your time.

 

If you can show they make a habit of this, then TS could be in a position to put them on a 'watch' list, but nothing that would assist you in getting money back to top up the £75 already paid.

[postggj]

Scooters Should Be Capped At 5 Mph

Any Faster And They Have To Be Registered With Dvla

 

8 MPH SCOOTER

 

WOW

[buzby]

How is this relevant? 8mph Scooters are in a different Class grouping, but this has no bearing on the issue, except they cost considerably more. If you can then purchase one for under £800 new, then there is absolutely no chance a s/h 4mph one would ever retail at £800 and ever sell.

[cavvy]

These letters are 'after the event'. What you need is proof of what you originally agreed would be the fee for repair and sale. Whilst not making excuses for them, as a dealer, they also have to factor in an element for work that MAY be required as they will be liable under SOGA to the new owner.

 

All of this will come from your 'profit' from the sale, and unless you can show an explicit agreement as to the costs due to you (to support your argument of being ripped off) you're pretty much up the proverbial creek without a paddle. They could have asked for £800, but it would have to have been a pretty top of the range model for that to be achieved, as there are some superb 8mph class machines out there, NEW with a 2 year warranty for £799 retail.

 

I would expect they will have sold it for much less, probably nearer £400 - and replacement batteries/repair PLUS their profit margin could easily have left around the £100 mark. By not setting the minimum costs you would be prepared to accept, you have no recourse as they will simply say it was surplus to your requirements and they were told to get rid of it for as much as they could.

 

They have no obligation to you to provide the list of costs, and I agree this may assist your understanding, but you have no 'right' to this. CAB and TS will not act for you, and if you want to attempt to make an issue of it, a solicitor's letter may do the trick to squeeze some money out of them, but they could resist and you are in po position to object as it all boils down to your 'agreement', as they did what they said they would do by selling the scooter, you cannot ask for it back, and as the firm was effectively acting as your agent, unless you have documentary evidence to put in front of a judge (to show they were in breach) you would be wasting your time.

 

If you can show they make a habit of this, then TS could be in a position to put them on a 'watch' list, but nothing that would assist you in getting money back to top up the £75 already paid.

 

 

 

ok buzby

 

thanks for the excellent reply

 

that has cleared alot of questions up i think my mother and i will have to write this one off to a bit of inexperience in these matters

 

once again many thanks

[buzby]

WAIT!

 

Just because you cannot get them legally, doesn;t mean you should roll over... just be aware of your limitations, and embarass them in to paying you more. It's phycology in reverese - WRITE back thanking them for the cheque and saying, that you had hoped for at least (say, £400?) feom the eventual sale of your late father's scooter - which you didn't think was an unreasonable amount for such a classy and hilghy regarded model.

 

You have arranged with a sculptor for a fitting memorial to your dad, but their payment of £75 is going to leave to financially distresssed tdue to the shortfall. Could they possibly review the figures and perhaps provide a higher settlement?

 

If I got a letter like that, I'd be reaching for my cheque book. If I got one demanding retribution for an underpayment, I wouldn't bother.

 

See where I'm coming from now?

[barracad]

You have arranged with a sculptor for a fitting memorial to your dad, but their payment of £75 is going to leave to financially distresssed tdue to the shortfall. Could they possibly review the figures and perhaps provide a higher settlement?

 

Fraud by false representation? Yeah, great advice...

[buzby]

Fraud by false representation? Yeah, great advice...

 

£75 on a promised or expected £800 sale...? WHO started it...?

 

There's a time to stretch the truth to your advantage. You can call it what you like, but if you think that's 'fraud', you should get out more and see what REAL CAGgers have to put up with.

[barracad]

£75 on a promised or expected £800 sale...? WHO started it...?

 

Which makes your suggested course of action acceptable? I think not!

 

By all means, it sounds like he has been ripped off and needs to take it further - but certainly not in the way you are suggesting.

 

This site is concerned with asserting the Consumer Right. This does not happen by stealth or dishonesty.

 

I'm sure that the site team will confirm that such posts suggesting what is tantamount to fraud are not welcome here.

 

Shame on you.

[buzby]

Shame on you.

 

Do you know - I'll still be able to sleep at night?

 

There are levels of dishonesty in all walks of life. You have assumed, that the OP has decided not to mark the passing of his relative in this way, so before you get all moral on this issue, perhaps you might care to find out whether he has, before moving so quickly to condemn.

 

I've an even better idea - why not simply explain that the OP has been royally deprived of money, and that in reality there is nothing that can be done (except bleat to TS and CA of the injustice of it all). Now, how does that help?

 

With that level of 'assistance' we all might as well pack up and go home and let the baddies get away with it. Am I bothered at your position? Not in the slightest. Do I care? Even less. I want the OP to come out with the money he deserves from the sale of his goods, if you cannot assist him, then I respectfully suggest you join a thread you can do something useful, instead of wasting bandwidth here.

[postggj]

At The End Of The Day, The More Money The Op Got Would Go To The Funeral Expense Which In Its Self Is A Very Distressing Time

 

My Own Opinion Is These People Are Vultures

 

Legal Or Not

 

Rant Over

[barracad]

At The End Of The Day, The More Money The Op Got Would Go To The Funeral Expense Which In Its Self Is A Very Distressing Time

 

My Own Opinion Is These People Are Vultures

 

Completely appreciate the sentiment - however as per my previous post I believe that regardless of the circumstances things need to be done in the correct way.

 

The OP needs to clarify in the first instance what deductions have been made and why, as they have clearly taken an excessive amount (regardless of the lack of a written contract).

[sea-sidelady]

 

I'm sure that the site team will confirm that such posts suggesting what is tantamount to fraud are not welcome here.

 

Shame on you.

 

CAG never has and never will condone fraud. Regardless of the reason.

[RaeUK]

Cavvy, if I were you I too would be feeling a little frustrated. Assuming it sold for £800, their 15% would be £120 and your bit was £75. That's an interesting refurbishment of £605. Was it really in such disrepair? Unlikely.

I think what you need to know is how much it sold for. If the company have been unwilling to let you know then you need to investigate. I would ask a friend to phone the company inquiring about the scooter they saw on the website. Be disappointed about it being sold and try to find out what it went for. Before there is any bickering, this is not fraud. It is basic detective work.

If you can get that figure - which may be less than £800 - you know what you got and what they get. The difference will be the supposed cost of repair.

If, for arguments sake, the difference was indeed £605 then you need to decide if that is reasonable. To do this I would phone a couple of places that repair that type of vehicle. Explain the reason why you're curious without naming names. Let them know it needed a new battery and a new thingy whatsit or whatever. And then enquire just how much refurbishment you could have had for the money at their firm.

This gives you the information you need to form a basic case.

You can then decide what you want to do. The monetary difference probably won't be enough for a solicitor to be involved and trading standards may not be interested. But you might consider the small claims court. Just a thought. At the same time, what sort of firm is it? Are they members of any professional association you could complain to? Is it a one-man band or do they have a Head Office and a complaints procedure?

You just need to be a little creative.

If - as has been suggested - it sold for as little as £400 then they had £60, you had £75 and repairs were £265. Which still sounds a lot for a battery and a brush up...

Rae.

[legalpickle]

I agree with Kelcou though do think it is possible there could be a legal case. The first thing to know is the breakdown, which cavvy is legally entitled to.

 

cavvy, please let us know where this is up to, and I will attempt to advise.

[buzby]

I agree with Kelcou though do think it is possible there could be a legal case.

 

An explanation as to how this could be possible without a formal agreement in existance interests me. Under what circumstances would make this a possibility?

[legalpickle]

An explanation as to how this could be possible without a formal agreement in existance interests me. Under what circumstances would make this a possibility?

I'd need to know where the OP is up to before saying any more.

[JonCris]

Demand they justify their payment of only £75 on a scooter you know was worth considerably more.

 

Warn them if they don't you'll take them to court.

 

They'll either justify their payment or offer more money

[buzby]

Forget the OP - take a hypothetical where someone goes to a dealer in anything (mobile phones, vintage cars etc) and ask him to sell the item on your behalf. He does, you you get £20. In the absence of any prior agreement, how could there be a 'legal case' invoked to increase the payout?

[legalpickle]

Forget the OP - take a hypothetical where someone goes to a dealer in anything (mobile phones, vintage cars etc) and ask him to sell the item on your behalf. He does, you you get £20. In the absence of any prior agreement, how could there be a 'legal case' invoked to increase the payout?

There was a prior agreement, by telephone. From what the OP wrote they agreed 15%. The dealer is therefore obliged to justify what they took.

 

The fact that it wasn't recorded is irrelevant. There is sufficient evidence that they had a relationship, therefore the OP would prepare a coherent Particulars of Claim, the company must provide a valid defence. On the balance of probabilities the OP's statement of case would be accepted.

[RaeUK]

Mmmm. I can see where everyone is coming from on this. And I do hope the OP pops back. My main worry is that they read the first few posts and then, as they said, put it down to experience. Because there is a bit of a whiff about this 'deal'...

Taking the OP as gospel, which we need to do, we know some basics. We know there was an agreement to offer for sale at £800, the dealer to take 15% plus cost of refurbishment. We know the seller got £75. We know there was no written agreement and we also know the old adage that a verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. One word against another tends to cancel each other out.

That latter part is one of the reasons why - in my absolute legal ignorance - I suggested the small claims court. I just feel that is where a one against one argument would most likely be heard with compassion. And if the price of sale was still an issue it is a place where the dealer would have to produce the invoice for work done and the price the scooter was really sold for. A simple calculation would then resolve the issue. For better or worse.

It is also a case, sadly, where the longer the OP leaves it the less likely they are to get anywhere...

Rae.