Another Summons thread

[SRPO]

My work is in law enforcement, specifically the railways but not exclusively.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Maybe you should stick to banking threads buddy.

 

I'm not your buddy, pal.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[MARTIN3030]

My work is in law enforcement, specifically the railways but not exclusively.

 

Ok thanks for answering.So am I right in assuming that the comments in question related to those guilty of offences committed on the railways ?

Of course in addition to other sectors not exclusive to railways.

[ScarletPimpernel]

SRPO sounds as if he's some sort of 'Revenue Protection Officer' - those glorified ticket inspectors occasionally seen dishing out penalty fares.

[SRPO]

SRPO sounds as if he's some sort of 'Revenue Protection Officer' - those glorified ticket inspectors occasionally seen dishing out penalty fares.

 

Guess again, I'll give a prize to whomever is correct.

[SRPO]

I'm not your buddy, pal.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Wonder if i'll get that bonus this year....

 

Cheers pal.

[danielr]

wow... just wow...

 

wws works in debt collection for a bank, so he's the enemy, and doesn't deserve any help what-so-ever?

 

SRPO, (and old-codja I think from reading his posts) work enforcing rail fines...

 

Does that mean that they also don't deserve any help (should they ever need it). -despite the fact that they've offered people loads of advice... even if it wasn't as sympathetic or hopeful as the people asking for help would have wanted...

 

regards wws's banking advice, all he said is that he worked for a bank, and that's most likely what the banks were going to do. not that he thought it was right... surely that information is better than no information? at least you have an idea of what your 'enemy' is thinking and what their next move is going to be...

 

I don't see how that makes him an 'enemy' nor do I see how that means that he shouldn't get any help.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello danielr!

 

wws works in debt collection for a bank, so he's the enemy, and doesn't deserve any help what-so-ever?

Correct IMHO. Especially when some of his other Posts were not in the slightest bit helpful to other Caggers (Posts he has now deleted, but that are still there to see because other Cagger's were able to quote them before deletion).

 

Does that mean that they also don't deserve any help (should they ever need it). -despite the fact that they've offered people loads of advice... even if it wasn't as sympathetic or hopeful as the people asking for help would have wanted...

You've lost me. What loads of advice has the Debt Collector offered to anyone?

 

regards wws's banking advice, all he said is that he worked for a bank, and that's most likely what the banks were going to do. not that he thought it was right... surely that information is better than no information? at least you have an idea of what your 'enemy' is thinking and what their next move is going to be...

We need that sort of advice like we need a hole in the head. Unless you've just landed from the planet Zog, most on CAG already know what the enemy are thinking when it comes to them Posting messages on CAG that are wholly designed to intimidate the vulnerable into making payments towards charges that only the banks (and their friends) feel are reasonable and fair.

 

I don't see how that makes him an 'enemy' nor do I see how that means that he shouldn't get any help.

I assume by the above you are now talking about SRPO? To remind you, I warned them they were sending a PM to a Debt Collector. SRPO then informed me he/she was the 'enemy' too, i.e. on the same side as the Debt Collector.

 

From a quick read of some of your other Posts (no Threads), I can see exactly why you have come to this conclusion. Some of your comments point to where your true sympathies lie.

 

Please understand that it is not at all alarming to find people involved in Law Enforcement helping on CAG, and needing help from CAG, but it is alarming when one who claims to be involved in Law Enforcement, openly states that they are on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector.

 

All the people involved in Law Enforcement that I happen to know, would be absolutely horrified to be associated with any Debt Collectors. That one statement by SRPO claiming to be the 'enemy', and by deduction on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector, said far more about them than I can ever say.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Old-CodJA]

Hello danielr!

 

All the people involved in Law Enforcement that I happen to know, would be absolutely horrified to be associated with any Debt Collectors. That one statement by SRPO claiming to be the 'enemy', and by deduction on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector, said far more about them than I can ever say.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

BRW,

 

Yes, I agree with the sentiment of this last part, but am a little concerned that your use of the word 'them' generalises too much in relation to other peoples' offerings in this thread

 

I have made clear by my public profile that I work in railways revenue protection & law enforcement. If your remarks mean that through my offerings along with SRPO,

I am somehow seen as 'your enemy' I take great exception to being classified in the same grouping as the blood sucking parasites that typify the Banks collection agencies.

 

I also concede that there are probably some compassionate human beings employed by those departments too, but I doubt that they will ever rise to 'high office' in that money grabbing set-up.

 

I do not consider myself the 'enemy' in trying to help clarify the legal position relating to tickets & byelaw matters, nor do I consider it wrong to offer suggestions that might help a user to review their approach to any difficulty that they are dealing with.

 

I actually don't care who they are or who they work for. If someone has asked for advice I am happy to give whatever comment I can that might be helpful to the wider community and always with the proviso that it is just my opinion.

 

The user should make up their own mind whether to act on my comments or not.

 

I will not post advice on threads that are clearly started by someone whose case may land on my desk

 

Sadly, I think that we all have to concede that Debt Collection is a necessary evil in some respects. If we are owed money, we all have to consider how we set about collecting it, but this has no place in advice relating to your legal rights & responsibilities to hold a ticket as a rail traveller and should not be confused with such matters.

 

Debt Collection is a civil matter, fare evasion is not.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[WWS]

I came here because I needed help with a rail fare evasion summons. I had a browse on the site for things that I may know a bit about. I found a thread and I commented.

 

I did not give any indication on my personal position on any matter. I simply wrote what is the current legal and banking position on the matter. Facts. If anybody would like my personal position on the matter, they are welcome to PM me and I will set them straight.

 

I removed the post for reasons I am not prepared to comment on on a public forum. Again, If you'd like these, I will give them in private.

 

I collect debts. Debts that are fair. If I see a discrepancy or any charge that IN THE EYES OF THE LAW is unfair, I do not collect it. I dont collect based on my principles or my opinion. I collect because I have a partner and two children to feed. I do not take a million pound bonus. I earn comfortably less than the national average wage.

 

The fact is, everybody knows that if you do not have money to pay things automatically, you get charged. Everybody knows this, yet dispite this, nobody does anything to stop it happening (eg cancel your direct debit if you know you cant pay it). Yet all charges are pre-warned, all of them are clear to see before the event.

 

I dont expect people to like what Ive said, but as Ive said, these are facts.

 

If I dont deserve your help because I collect debts, thats fine. Maybe I'd rather get help from someone who isnt weighed down by a massive chip.

 

Thanks again and regards to all those who have posted anything helpful (SRPO and CODJA amongst few others) about my rail case. I am am currently awaiting a court date.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Old-CodJA!

 

These are the facts...

 

WWS is a DCA Troll who was spouting off Debt Collecting nonsense on another Thread. He is doing it again here now on this Thread. I rest my case there.

 

I warned SRPO that he/she was sending a PM to a DCA Troll, and he/she responded to advise me that he/she was also 'the enemy' suggesting at least an affinity to the DCA Troll.

 

I have no issue with you at all, and the word them in my above Post was in reference to SRPO and nobody else. Anyone who aligns themselves with DCA Trolls on CAG is likely to get a bumpy ride, and SRPO pushed themselves into the firing line.

 

That leaves us with this Post by WWS, the parts in red are unwelcome comments on CAG, and are simply a DCA Troll doing what a DCA Troll likes to do:

 

I came here because I needed help with a rail fare evasion summons. I had a browse on the site for things that I may know a bit about. I found a thread and I commented.

 

I did not give any indication on my personal position on any matter. I simply wrote what is the current legal and banking position on the matter. Facts. If anybody would like my personal position on the matter, they are welcome to PM me and I will set them straight.

 

I removed the post for reasons I am not prepared to comment on on a public forum. Again, If you'd like these, I will give them in private.

 

I collect debts. Debts that are fair. If I see a discrepancy or any charge that IN THE EYES OF THE LAW is unfair, I do not collect it. I dont collect based on my principles or my opinion. I collect because I have a partner and two children to feed. I do not take a million pound bonus. I earn comfortably less than the national average wage.

 

The fact is, everybody knows that if you do not have money to pay things automatically, you get charged. Everybody knows this, yet dispite this, nobody does anything to stop it happening (eg cancel your direct debit if you know you cant pay it). Yet all charges are pre-warned, all of them are clear to see before the event.

 

I dont expect people to like what Ive said, but as Ive said, these are facts.

 

If I dont deserve your help because I collect debts, thats fine. Maybe I'd rather get help from someone who isnt weighed down by a massive chip.

 

Thanks again and regards to all those who have posted anything helpful (SRPO and CODJA amongst few others) about my rail case. I am am currently awaiting a court date.

WWS was followed here to this part of CAG, because his/her activities elsewhere on CAG suggested their Posts needed to be monitored.

 

CAG is a self-help Forum. The use of PMs is to be avoided unless for a very good reason. It is important that vulnerable people are not drawn in to conversing with bank Debt Collectors via PM. The above Post by WWS is a clear invitation to pull in the unwary, crafting the usual banking party line around a bleeding heart story.

 

There are what appear to be multiple CAG identities operating in this section of CAG. This comment is not directed at Old-CodJA.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited December 15, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
Typo

[danielr]

Correct IMHO. Especially when some of his other Posts were not in the slightest bit helpful to other Caggers (Posts he has now deleted, but that are still there to see because other Cagger's were able to quote them before deletion).

I'm sure that some of your posts are not in the slightest bit useful to other caggers either. this for sure is one of them... does that mean that you should now be cast out and not get any help what-so-ever?

You've lost me. What loads of advice has the Debt Collector offered to anyone?

I quite specifically said that SRPO and old-codJA before I said this, and from the post that I've read their help is appreciated by a lot of people... even if that help is to say we've all heard that excuse before, or well really you shouldn't have travelled without a ticket,

As I said before, sometimes the truth, no matter how much it hurts is better than nothing at all.

the comment that you posted doesn't show sympathy with the banks at all, rather it just tells what they are going to/likely to do...

 

We need that sort of advice like we need a hole in the head. Unless you've just landed from the planet Zog, most on CAG already know what the enemy are thinking

it's something that I didn't know before, so it's something that I found useful, and to be honest I'm sure that I can't be alone in that... you'll see that I only joined a couple of months ago, and I'd thought that the banks had just stopped paying back the unfair charges and that I'd just missed the boat for claiming them... now I'm able to know better from reading on here.

 

when it comes to them Posting messages on CAG that are wholly designed to intimidate the vulnerable into making payments towards charges that only the banks (and their friends) feel are reasonable and fair.

I don't agree with posting intimidating messages at all. I don't understand where you got the idea that I did.

 

all I'm saying is that the advice that the banks are going to try to swoop in and make everything go away whilst the majority of people are still wide jawed wondering just how on earth the OFT lost that test case... is useful. if for no other reason that it shows that there is some urgency in getting a new argument sorted out. and it shows again just how underhanded the banks are going to be.

 

I assume by the above you are now talking about SRPO? To remind you, I warned them they were sending a PM to a Debt Collector. SRPO then informed me he/she was the 'enemy' too, i.e. on the same side as the Debt Collector.

he's not necessarily a debt collector, but I think that he's more saying that he's the enemy of some of the people who come onto this forum.

he's the enemy of the people who come here saying, "I just used my grans freedom pass for the past month, then I got caught, but it was an accident honest", "how do I get out of it", or the people saying "I just borrowed a ticket/jumped a train/thought I wouldn't get caught", who are asking for the excuses that are most likely to get them off the hook.

 

The sad truth is that any excuse that they can think of has been said tens or hundreds of times before...

 

It doesn't make it bad advice, in fact it's probably good advice, and in the end is going to save them time, money and effort.

 

And no, I don't blame someone for chancing it, certainly I know full well that I've travelled without a ticket before when I was a student and I really couldn't afford it, but I knew damn well it was wrong, and that if I got caught there would be a penalty to pay. -and that it would be right to pay that penalty.

 

I also know damn well that it was free loading, and that one of the reasons the tickets were so expensive (and that I couldn't afford one) was because of people like me who were taking it upon themselves to travel for free.

 

From a quick read of some of your other Posts (no Threads),

I found this forum through google whilst looking for the answer to a worry that I had regarding a personal injury solicitors letter following a car accident.

My questions/concerns/worries were answered without the need to start a new thread. but in the thread that I was reading there was a link to the thread "locked in carpark" which I started reading and became fascinated in... after that I joined the forum as I thought that this is the kind of place that I'd like to be, and that I'd like to try to contribute to. if you have a problem with that I can just go.

I can see exactly why you have come to this conclusion. Some of your comments point to where your true sympathies lie.

really? where do my true sympathies lie? please tell me. I'm amazed that looking over 92 short text comments that I've left on a forum that you've figured me out.

perhaps you could show me some posts where I've made it clear where my allegiances are?

 

in my comments above this I've made it clear that I think that abusing a freedom pass ,which is given as a privileged is wrong, and that I think that travelling on a train without a ticket is wrong... -does that make me on the side of the ticket inspectors that I used to run away from, or does that just make me a normal person?

I also said that I used to jump trains, does that make me a free loader, or a normal person?

 

Please understand that it is not at all alarming to find people involved in Law Enforcement helping on CAG, and needing help from CAG, but it is alarming when one who claims to be involved in Law Enforcement, openly states that they are on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector.

SRPO just said that he was the enemy too, I still don't see where he said that he was a debt collector.

and I still find it a little disturbing that you are deciding and advising people on an open forum that (I assume) was set up to help all consumers just exactly who is deserving of anyone's help. and that you would actually go as far as to be advising people not to help someone because of their job.

 

All the people involved in Law Enforcement that I happen to know, would be absolutely horrified to be associated with any Debt Collectors. That one statement by SRPO claiming to be the 'enemy', and by deduction on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector, said far more about them than I can ever say.

well that's a rather large generalisation...

 

I've said in a different thread that my father is a gardener, who, through his association with a property management company has 'cleared' houses after they've been repossessed. this basically means getting rid of anything that they (the people who have been evicted) have left behind...

 

Does this make him a bad person? or does this make him a person that needs to work, -else his house would end up being repossessed (again).

in order to do his work he's associated with your enemy, so i guess he must be bad... I was planning to try to give him some advice regarding bank debt collectors that are currently 'after' him from things that I've learned whilst on this forum... but I'll be sure to try not to pass on any of your advice because he's not worthy of it.

 

I used to go out with a girl who worked in DLC (direct legal collections), is she a bad person because at the age of 18 she just needed a job (in order to save to continue her education) and went to work in a call centre?

 

she's currently getting a bit of trouble from debt collectors and bailiffs, I'll be sure to tell her not to bother coming to this forum looking for help, because she won't be deemed worthy of your help.

 

Am I a bad person for associating with her? I'll be sure to try to stay out of any trouble as it seems that if I ever need help from this forum it seems I can be sure that you're just going to follow me around saying that I'm not worthy of getting any help...

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello danielr!

 

Please re-read my Posts.

 

You are shooting off at a tangent, and introducing a lot of nonsense and noise.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[WWS]

People dont want to hear facts.I asked for honest advice. Got the facts that I got from Codja. Thats fine, now I make my decision.Debt Collectors are bad m'kay. Just leave it at that.

[danielr]

Hello danielr!

 

Please re-read my Posts.

 

You are shooting off at a tangent, and introducing a lot of nonsense and noise.

 

Cheers,

BRW

ok.

You've lost me. What loads of advice has the Debt Collector offered to anyone?

he just offered an insight into the opinion of 'the enemy' something that he... and the enemy considered a fact.

this was also announced elsewhere, (on the banks websites) that they would be moving to try to end all cases on mass following their 'victory' in the test case.

 

as I said above, I don't see that opinion as right, but I don't agree that it's wrong to express it.

 

as I also said above I do find it wrong that someone would come on here to try to intimidate people into paying debts.

SRPO then informed me he/she was the 'enemy' too, i.e. on the same side as the Debt Collector.

as I said above, I think that you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. and I quite clearly suggested what I think SRPO meant when they said that... of course only SRO can confirm what exactly he/she does for a living.

 

From a quick read of some of your other Posts (no Threads), I can see exactly why you have come to this conclusion. Some of your comments point to where your true sympathies lie.

again... where? what?

 

are you sure that it's not you doing the unnecessary trolling here?

 

it is alarming when one who claims to be involved in Law Enforcement, openly states that they are on the same side as a bank's Debt Collector.

again this was never said. you just assumed.

 

All the people involved in Law Enforcement that I happen to know, would be absolutely horrified to be associated with any Debt Collectors.

it's a fact of life that some people just can't, or indeed won't pay. not all debts are the result, or even related to unfair charges, and some people need debt collectors to make their debtors pay them. I don't stand by, or agree to some of their practices, but that doesn't mean that there is no need for debt collectors.

 

WWS was followed here to this part of CAG, because his/her activities elsewhere on CAG suggested their Posts needed to be monitored.

from this thread I'd have never known that WWS was a debt collector until you came trolling into here telling people that he wasn't worthy and indeed shouldn't be helped.

 

and there would be nothing in this thread about debt collection if you hadn't brought it up.

 

There are what appear to be multiple CAG identities operating in this section of CAG. This comment is not directed at Old-CodJA.

I can assure you that I've only got one username on this forum, and I have no interest in creating more to try to push any agenda.

but I can see that you're not a forum moderator (you've just taken it upon yourself to act like one). indeed if you were a forum moderator you could just use the forum tools available and you'd see that my IP address had only been logged as having posted from two locations. (home and work).

 

Further to that my IP addresses would confirm that I use Virgin as an internet supplier at home, and that I work for a large IT company (as my profile says that I'm in IT), this could be confirmed as the company that I work for owns the block of IP addresses that I'll have been posting from...

 

there have only been 8 posters in this thread.

the only people leaving posts that you disagree with are:

WWS, because he collects debts

SRPO, because he's happy to give advice to anyone, regardless of whatever their day job is.

and Myself.

 

so who has the multiple accounts? surely it can't be WWS and SRPO since one is helping the other...

 

 

so as you requested, I read your posts, and I still can't see any merit in the accusations that you are making,

nor can I see any merit in our ideas that one person doesn't deserve any help with a matter because of a completely unrelated day job...

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello danielr!

 

Please re-read my Posts yet again. They are quite easy to read and understand, and need no further comment.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SRPO]

Nice to see some healthy debate going on.

Im not involved in the banking industry (directly anyway) and I only give my opinion to those who may face legal action in the court system, as that is where my expertise is based.

I am considered the 'enemy' here as I wont assist those that willingly break the law, and untill recently may sometimes leave posts on threads clearly showing my contempt for those that are looking for a way out of that responsibility.

As for DCAs, they are a necessary evil, however their methods leave much to be desired.

I would rather serve burgers than do that role.

 

BRW, you comment about it being unusual to be honest in my line of work, did strike a nerve as I take my role seriously and the most important thing in my professional life is my integrity. I apologise for biting.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SRPO!

 

I apologise for biting.

 

No problem, the 'enemy' bit suggested you were supportive and/or linked to the DCA Troll.

 

I was wholly unaware of your other role on CAG, and that some might consider you an 'enemy' for other reasons.

 

No offence, to you, was intended.

 

As for the DCA Troll, well, that's another matter!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[danielr]

hello banker_rhymes_with,

I read your posts yet again...

 

I still disagree with your sweeping generalisations about SRPO, based on a comment that I still believe you misinterpreted.

 

I still disagree with the idea that you are deciding who is and isn't worthy of getting help here.

 

and I still don't rate your practice of following around after a member trying to prevent them from getting advice...

 

yes, I do find it funny to have a laugh and say how do you feel now that the boot is on the other foot!

but I don't agree with trying to prevent anyone from getting any help because you've taken a personal dislike to them.

[Old-CodJA]

Well, I'll add my two pennorth, for what it's worth.

 

BRW, thank you for clarifying the use of a plural in your post. The fact that you used a plural to refer to an individual (SRPO) was confusing and for that reason I took a little offence. Personally, from reading previous posts I don't think SRPO considers him/her self the enemy of anyone they are trying to advise.

 

As for the rest, I have strong views about some of the Banks practices - I accept that individuals carrying out intructions are doing so to pay their bills, just as do Railway staff and the company's prosecution staff.

 

What I refer to as the banking 'parasites' are the decision takers. These are the people at the top taking huge salaries & unbelievable bonuses, derived through driving practices that profit from other peoples misery and seeking to defend the right to do so!

 

I will continue to give advice to anyone who asks for it, based on my genuinely held, honest opinion and regardless of who they are and what they do.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[WWS]

Hello SRPO!

 

 

 

No problem, the 'enemy' bit suggested you were supportive and/or linked to the DCA Troll.

 

I was wholly unaware of your other role on CAG, and that some might consider you an 'enemy' for other reasons.

 

No offence, to you, was intended.

 

As for the DCA Troll, well, that's another matter!

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

So just to confirm. You have no idea who I am. But that doesnt matter.You have no idea what type of debt I collect. But that doesnt matter.You have not bothered to ask any questions of me. But that doesnt matter.You have no idea of MY methods of collecting the debts, of which you have no idea of the type. But that doesnt matter.You read my post on the other part of CAG. I have never and will never attempt to cajole people into speaking to me (which has been clearly insinuated in other posts) on here or indeed anywhere outside of the role that I am paid, about their debts. Ive only been here 4 days, and judging by my amount of posts, am hardly the most active user. None of that matters.All that concerns you is that I am a Debt Collector. For that reason you mean to offend me?You dont offend me. Simply for being a collector for a bank, I can make you want to offend me. That says more about you than me.

[MARTIN3030]

Why did you not seek advice from the CSA or Credit today pages ?

Presumably you would have had some advice from fellow minded collegues there ?

 

A debt collector who claims to be on CAG for advice is something we dont see very often.

A debt collector who who comes here seeking advice following himself/herself breaking the law is almost unheard of.

 

A debt collector who comes on here,seeking advice after breaking the law,and then decides to seek to lay the law down themselves to Barclays bank claimants is going to be seriously challeged and questioned.

 

I dont think the vast majority of CAG members will have any problems in understanding any of that.....and neither should you.

Edited December 15, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[banker_rhymes_with]

There is a war going on, and the DCAs or Debt Collectors, or whatever they want to call themselves, are very firmly on the other side and are certainly not on mine nor, indeed, are they on the side of the significant majority of CAG members.

 

I do not regard them as a necessary evil, I regard them as pure evil and wholly unnecessary. It's their career choice, so they must live with the consequences of being almost universally disliked and mistrusted.

 

If a DCA or Debt Collector Troll is looking for Sympathy, then the most likely place they will find it is between Sex and Syphilis in any Dictionary.

 

But they will get none from me.

 

No prisoners. This is war. If it has not affected you yet, it will...just give it time.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[WWS]

Just to finish this one off.Northern and Myself went to court - it was then set for trial on 3 March. Before I went into the court at the first hearing, the representative of Norther offered to let me pay £27.40 if I changed my plea to guilty. This I declined.I then got a letter dated the 10th Feb offering the same as above. Again I wrote back and declined, advising of my not guilty plea.Received a letter over the weekend advising that after careful consideration of the facts, Norther have decided to be "extremely lenient" and drop the case against me after "careful consideration of the facts" - see my original post.Job done.

[WWS]

Why did you not seek advice from the CSA or Credit today pages ?

Presumably you would have had some advice from fellow minded collegues there ?

 

A debt collector who claims to be on CAG for advice is something we dont see very often.

A debt collector who who comes here seeking advice following himself/herself ALLEGEDLY breaking the law is almost unheard of.

 

A debt collector who comes on here,seeking advice after ALLEGEDLY breaking the law,and then decides to seek to lay the law down themselves to Barclays bank claimants is going to be seriously challeged and questioned.

 

I dont think the vast majority of CAG members will have any problems in understanding any of that.....and neither should you.

For accuracy.