Help needed with Appeal V Barclays

[clivey888]

hi mandm,

I just about ok with it bit confusing all this, Question to you, I have just seen that i can do it online but in the ackowledgment i stated part admission and it does give me an option to defend all, Should defend all in light of the agreement and situation.

[MandM]

yes, defend all!

 

The onus is on THEM to prove you owe!

 

Hence the CPR route - you're going to force them to show everything they have on you (or don't have possibly).

 

Best advice i've ever been given on here is "make them prove you owe them the money; make them prove you owe them the money;and make them prove you owe them the money". (thanks steven4064).

 

So YES, it's a full defence at this stage. Start digging out what paperwork you do have such as DN, termination etc. It may or may not help but it's best to get an opinion on here - then see what the CPR yields.

 

Not sure if i've asked before but how old is this agreement (alleged )?

 

M

Edited December 10, 2009 by MandM
added some

[clivey888]

lol yes seen the film great film.

 

Does the part on the defence relating to termination mean also default notice?

 

I have also already started the defence and it wont let me cancel so think i have to crack on tonight with it, Do you think it is ok to submit as it is?

[MandM]

Yes IMO it looks ok.

 

As Harry the Hatchet so famously said in LockStock - "Now let's see his f****** cards" :D:D

 

Now you can find out what they've actually got on you - which commonly isn't quite enough!

 

M

[clivey888]

Ok fingers crossed i will hit the send button ....no going back now.

[clivey888]

Thanks for your help all so far.

[MandM]

 

Does the part on the defence relating to termination mean also default notice?

 

 

Termination follows default. You should have had a DN followed by termination. As I understand it though, termination can be implied in a number of ways such as demanding the full amount, selling the account, stating on the DN that failure to comply WILL result in termination in XX days etc.

 

M

[clivey888]

I have submitted the defence now so too late for me to change my mind, Really hope i dont screw this up/.

[MandM]

I have submitted the defence now so too late for me to change my mind, Really hope i dont screw this up/.

 

You'll be fine. It's important to get your court docs in ON TIME. Failure to do that bit is not good.

 

Now you can concentrate on taking your time in getting some good advice from those that are much more knowledgeable than me. Now the fun starts .

 

CPR next.

 

M

Edited December 10, 2009 by MandM
typo. fat fingers

[clivey888]

Thanks for your input mandm greatly appreciated i can now sleep tonight not worrying on her behalf.

[slick132]

Hi Clivey,

 

Sorry - when I responded last time, I didn't see the Defence which you posted.

 

The Defence looks fine. Now that it has gone in, concentrate on putting together a letter using CPR to tell the Claimant what you now require.

 

From what you say about the "agreement", although it has your signatures on it, it lacks the Prescribed Terms (APR, etc) which makes it unenforceable, even by a court.

 

[clivey888]

Hi people hope all had good holidays, I have recieved the following information

as follows:

 

A letter from the solicitors asking my partner to contact them to resolve in 7 days or they fill in allocation questionnaire, Will they date did come and pass and they my partner has now recieved the allocation questionnaire

which needs to be filled out and returned by 5th February.

 

The solicitors sent my partner also copy of signed application, copy statement not complete though, copy default notice, copy notice of assignments, and a copy of letter before action.

 

I have gone through these and have noticed that the account she had with barclays and the account number which is on notice of assignment is 80% different only the first 4 digits are the same, Surly this is a no go right as they chasing an account that does not relate to my partner?

 

Also they only have the application form not a signed agreement.

 

I really need to know what action to take now, Do i do a defence based on the info i have recieved now as an embarrased defence was put in last month also detailing no proper agreement and notice of assignement is incorrect.. What do you guys think?

[MandM]

Hi Clivey, welcome back, hope your hols went well also .

 

Did you send off any CPR requests out of interest?

 

Is the Application form they sent the same one as in your previous post?

 

I think the change in numbers is part of the assignment process to get the debt off of their system but i'm sure others will comment further on this.

 

I'm assuming that the AQ is an N149 form and that it definately came from the court and not the Sols.

 

M

[the_shadow]

Hi Clivey,

 

a couple of things....

 

Does the name of the company the debt is assigned to on the NoA match EXACTLY the name of the claimant on the county court claim form?

 

Is this a Notice from Barclays to HFO?

 

If it is then the account number should be the same as the account number used for Barclays imvho.

 

 

The CPR 31 letter you sent the solicitors, should have stated you would enter in your amended defence x days after getting that info... did it have this in it?

 

If you've received all the info you require to defend the claim then you'll need to do an amended claim using the info they have now provided.

 

Have you read around a few of the HFO threads to see how they "work" and the defences used against them.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

This is a particularly nasty claim due to the claimant seeking compounded interest after judgment.

 

To do this they should have to show that it was in the terms & conditions you agreed to at signature stage AND should have warned you on the default notice that post judgment interest would be charged... If you have the original of the default notice I would urge you to dig it out and compare very very carefully with the default notice they have sent you as the copy.

 

You might want to post it up for others to look at (after removing personal info)... if its like most Barclays defaults of say pre-Nov it should be dodgy on statutory days required to remedy and a copy of other regulations.

 

S.

[freethemice]

My personal recommendation on this would be to do a full data protection with Barclays for any information they hold on your partner on any medium. It costs £10 but should yield alot of information. Information and detail in court is crucial when defending.

Reading the thread I do detect alot of confusion and anxiety here. My gut feeling is that you would struggle if this went before the judge. This isn't a critisism as the court process can be very traumatic.

Would it be an option to decide what amount of the balance you would be prepared to pay back and make an offer to pay this at a rate you could afford?

At the very least this would show the judge you had made efforts to resolve this and this can count when court costs are awarded.

Always use terms like "alleged balance" and "alleged agreement" in such a letter.

Typically at this stage a 50% reduction would normally be accepted but this does often reflect how confident they are in the case.

Hope this helps.

[clivey888]

Hi all thanks for the replies.

 

The claimant is HFO Services Limited on the notice of defence filed sent with allocation questionnaire, but on the claim forms it states hfo capital limited.

 

Could someone please advise why the account number is different on the notice of assignment to the origonal account number she had but is the same on the default notice?

 

Is the agreement enforceable due to terms and apr missing and the fact it is a application as clearly stated by hfo and no agreement has ever been supplied even though requested?

 

Also do i need to get the amended defence in now with the allocation questionnaire or can it wait?

 

thanks in advance

[MandM]

Hi all thanks for the replies.

 

The claimant is HFO Services Limited on the notice of defence filed sent with allocation questionnaire, but on the claim forms it states hfo capital limited.

 

Could someone please advise why the account number is different on the notice of assignment to the origonal account number she had but is the same on the default notice?

 

Is the agreement enforceable due to terms and apr missing and the fact it is a application as clearly stated by hfo and no agreement has ever been supplied even though requested?

 

Also do i need to get the amended defence in now with the allocation questionnaire or can it wait?

 

thanks in advance

 

Judging by Shadows questions in post 39 it looks like he has something in mind regarding the names used. Think it's best to hold back a mo and see what he's thinking.

 

Did you have a read of any of those HFO threads yet?

 

M

[clivey888]

will hold back and will read through the hfo threads and report back.

[clivey888]

Hi Clivey,

 

a couple of things....

 

Does the name of the company the debt is assigned to on the NoA match EXACTLY the name of the claimant on the county court claim form?

 

Is this a Notice from Barclays to HFO?

 

If it is then the account number should be the same as the account number used for Barclays imvho.

 

 

The CPR 31 letter you sent the solicitors, should have stated you would enter in your amended defence x days after getting that info... did it have this in it?

 

If you've received all the info you require to defend the claim then you'll need to do an amended claim using the info they have now provided.

 

Have you read around a few of the HFO threads to see how they "work" and the defences used against them.

 

S.

 

The noa is from barclays but confusing to me is that the account number on the noa is 13 digits long but attached is the default notice which states the correct 16 digit account / card number .

 

Why do the acccount numbers defer from each other, She has never seen any correspondance with the account number on noa! Is this allowed?

[the_shadow]

Ok the NoA will have Barclays logo on it but will have come from HFO, this is standard in the industry and is obviously naughty but apparently they can get away with it.

 

The reason I asked about the details of the claim form differing with the NoA is because unless the creditor joins HFO taking you to court they have no standing in court to bring proceedings, the only people who can sue you for a debt are the owners of the debt, unless its a company joined by the owners taking you to court.

.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/236290-have-you-been-taken.html#post2619677

 

Post on this thread and you should get expert help with HFO

 

Hope this helps....

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Judging by Shadows questions in post 39 it looks like he has something in mind regarding the names used. Think it's best to hold back a mo and see what he's thinking.

 

Did you have a read of any of those HFO threads yet?

 

M

 

;-) I did.

 

 

This is a good thread to read as its still ongoing with vjohn, fantastic info on this thread for using against HFO.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/231293-help-defence-ws-required.html

 

S.

[pt2537]

My personal recommendation on this would be to do a full data protection with Barclays for any information they hold on your partner on any medium. It costs £10 but should yield alot of information. Information and detail in court is crucial when defending.

Reading the thread I do detect alot of confusion and anxiety here. My gut feeling is that you would struggle if this went before the judge. This isn't a critisism as the court process can be very traumatic.

Would it be an option to decide what amount of the balance you would be prepared to pay back and make an offer to pay this at a rate you could afford?

At the very least this would show the judge you had made efforts to resolve this and this can count when court costs are awarded.

Always use terms like "alleged balance" and "alleged agreement" in such a letter.

Typically at this stage a 50% reduction would normally be accepted but this does often reflect how confident they are in the case.

Hope this helps.

alleged ballance yes, alleged agreement??? no i think in view of recent court rulings this is wrong. you have an agreement,there is evidence of that by transactions yes? but what you do not have in my opinion, is proof of a properly executed agreement.

 

in any defence i put forward, i admit that the claimant has produced an agreement but deny that its enforceable for the reasons set out

 

 

If you need documents, and they are pleaded in the particulars of claim then you are entitled to them to be provided to you (CPR 31.14 -31.15) the claimant should provide the requested info within 7 days and ion breach then an application would be suitable

[clivey888]

guys Do i have to put in an amended defence with the noa which is due in on friday or can i put in the the emended defence after wards within a resonable time frame.

 

I agree with pt2537 and thank him for his input, Her defence will be on the basis that the agreement is not enforceable as not properly executed.

 

Can some one please advise what i need to do by this friday please also the link above relating to hfo does not work, and the claimants are def hfo capital limited.

[the_shadow]

guys Do i have to put in an amended defence with the noa which is due in on friday or can i put in the the emended defence after wards within a resonable time frame.

 

I agree with pt2537 and thank him for his input, Her defence will be on the basis that the agreement is not enforceable as not properly executed.

 

Can some one please advise what i need to do by this friday please also the link above relating to hfo does not work, and the claimants are def hfo capital limited.

 

Have you SAR'd Barclaycard? sent CPR letter 31.14/15 to HFO at all?

 

The link was deleted for some reason... this is a continuation of the link which should show how HFO were defeated on another barclaycard agreement, if the circumstances are the same then you might want to contact vjohn.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/245294-vjohn82-hfo-services-limited.html

 

Not quite sure I understand whats due this friday, if you received the claim on the 8th december surely the defence should have been in by now?

 

S.