Pumpytums goes to Northampton Help Please!

[pumpytums]

Hi mate,

have a look, very vague indeed

 

 

 

 

I will give them a ring today.

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Ok previously I have mentioned about their failure to supply cancellation rights. Now I know that this was blown out of the water by the Rankine case, but mines slightly different. Firstly the OC sent me a letter offering a CC, and secondly I phoned them to get them to send an application. I also believe they did a quick credit check over the phone. So there has been oral interaction or whatever they called it.

 

Ok and secondly, I have always said that I never received a DN for the account I think I can now prove it. Firstly I have a statement with a pay by date. So the DN could not have been received before that date as the amount supposedly claimed is more than the statement. Even if the DN was sent on the day after the statement day its impossible to give 14 clear days. They cannot prove 1st class so it's 2nd end game. Additionally the assignee has put the default date on my credit file as a day earlier than their assignment which is fine. Unfortunately this now make any possible DN 2 days short.

 

So basically if the DN was sent the day after statement payment was due(highly unlikely) they cannot possibly have issued a DN with the 14days before the account was defaulted/terminated/sold. Sorry boys game over.

 

I have it in writing the assigned date that it was terminated and that they sent a NOA. I want to see the deed now thank you very much.

 

I wondered why they completely ignored my request for a DN, on my defence. I additionally have it writing to the assignee stating that a DN was never received before any of the fun kicked off.

 

How lucky that I sent a letter to the OC;) after receiving the letter from assignee accepting their unlawful rescindment. Surely by not issuing a DN then demanding the full amount/terminating thats what they have done. Sounds very similar to another company don't you think.

 

Comments would be appreciated please

 

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

ok I gave the OC their last chance yesterday I managed to get hold of a customer service number. The result, they tried to give me the number of the assignee. I tried to explain that I didn't need it I just wanted my statements. Their response you will need to call assignee. So I asked "So you no longer have any information about by account? their response No we don't have any information".

 

So its time to take them to court.

 

Pumpytums

[MandM]

Got ya! So it's small claims and it looks like it's gone straight to a hearing. The DN route (lack of) will be pretty sound if you can get your argument together.

 

You can also demonstrate that due to them not giving you the docs you need for your defence that you're now having to use the court yourself to get those very documents.

 

Common sense says that you should be using your hearing to show that you need these other documents - and push for an adjournment until they've done so. I know very little about how you'd go about that part of it so in my mind it is, as I said, common sense. Hopefully someone can enlighten us both.

 

But if you could come away from that hearing with clear directions for them from the DJ asking for what you need and then a further 14 days for you to amend your defence accordingly then i'd say you've done well.

 

Any views anyone?

 

M

[pumpytums]

Thanks Mate,

the mad thing is I have issued directions so it would have been easier for the judge to have looked at them.

 

Thats the other thing M&M I want to issue a claim ASAP so I can show that I have tried every route CPR31.14, CPR18 and finally a claim.

 

Cheers again

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

I telephoned the Court manager today about the "Hearing" apparently the Judge has not allocated the case to a track as yet, I asked why they said it was because the judge had probably see something in the allocation questionnaires he didn't like.

 

I wonder if it could be something to do with the following statement from the claimants AQ

 

 

"The claim is raised to enforce the financial terms and conditions of a regulated credit card agreement between blah and blah, the benefit of which has been legally assigned to the Claimant. The claim is defended on the basis of the Defendant disputing the full outstanding balance and requesting strict proof of the agreement, terms and conditions and statements issued. The Claimant believes the defence to be invalid as the Defendant has been supplied with a copy of the agreement along with the relevant terms and conditions along with a statement of account from the original finance provider. Statements would have been issued every month by the original provider. A copy of the Letter of Assignment previously issued to the Defendant has also been provided clearly notifying the Defendant of the assignation to the Claimant.

 

As such, we request the defence be struck out and Judgement entered for those sums claimed ."

 

 

Well firstly the claimant has supplied a copy of the CCA, but the T&C are wrong remember I asked for all this info over 6 months ago. They seem to have completely forgotten about the default notice I requested or have they conveniently forgotten. Letter of assignment really how did you deliver said notice I wonder. I love the statement about the OC providing the statement of account and monthly statements. Shame that the amount claimed is completely wrong.

 

So hopefully the judge has looked at it and raised more than one eyebrow. All along I have played by the book and simply requested the information in their POC. If they cannot supply that well maybe I have a good judge.

 

I now know the exact date that it was sold lets say the timing of any alleged DN would be very impressive. The Claimant has helpfully provided a date when they registered the default too. Strangely the OC never registered one I wonder what that could mean;).

 

Time to get my ducklings in a row I think.

 

Do you dispute the debt Mr Pumpytums? I dispute the alleged assignment and the amount the Claimant claims? The Claimant has also tried to frustrate proceedings by not supplying documents clearly referred to in their POC.

 

Why do you still request a copy of the CCA when the claimant has supplied one? Because the date on the POC does not match the supplied CCA.(minor I know but valid after all I had mutiple accounts with the OC)

 

Why do you still request a copy of the T&C when the claimant has supplied one? Because the supplied T&C are generic have no heading. They are also incorrect for the supplied CCA.

 

Why do you want dispute the letter of assignment? I put the claimant to strict proof that the Law of Property act 1925 s196 was observed and that the letter was valid in its contents.(produces a NOA with a flourish as it should be) Thanks Cole

 

Why do you want to see the default notice? Because without issue of a valid Default notice Sir the Claimant cannot claim any sums or terminate the agreement as per the Consumer credit act 1974 s87.

 

Why do you want statement Mr Pumpytums to issue a counter claim Sir and to also determine how the claimant came to the total on their POC as the total claimed clearly does not match any of the documentation supplied?

 

 

Starter for 10 I feel.

 

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Well the postman bought me a special present today. My SAR from th OC, and guess what no DN, nothing no mention of it in comms log or list of letters sent. So I would Love to know where the alleged DN was sent from or is it another Stink production.

 

I would love to know how they will get round this one as the CCA 1974 s87

 

87.

Need for default notice.

— (1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice ”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a)

to terminate the agreement, or

 

(b)

to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

 

©

to recover possession of any goods or land, or

 

(d)

to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred, or

 

(e)

to enforce any security.

 

 

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent the creditor from treating the right to draw upon any credit as restricted or deferred, and taking such steps as may be necessary to make the restriction or deferment effective.

 

(3) The doing of an act by which a floating charge becomes fixed is not enforcement of a security.

 

(4) Regulations may provide that subsection (1) is not to apply to agreements described by the regulations.

 

So they are only entitled to the arrears, at the time of termination. Unfortunately for them I will now be claiming my fees, PPI, Unlawful rescindment and of course damage to credit. The assignee has done me a huge favour as their first letter clearly states, "Due to your default, the agreement has been terminated and payment of the should be made immediately and payable to Sink."

 

So it could get interesting soon, I wonder when they will try to scuttle off on this one. After my amended defence maybe?

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums

[hammyhound]

I am in court with this lot soon.

 

The best bit of their reply to defence

 

"we don't have the DN but this will be forwarded once received". They put that in their reply". They would also like my defence struck out and judgment entered.

 

How the hell do they know when the account went into default then as no mentioned of it in POCs.

 

Good luck

 

HH

[pumpytums]

Hi Hammy,

did you ask for it in your CPR ? I put it in my AQ and also mentioned the fact that did not comply.

 

I would love to see how they produce my DN as one was never issued. According to one of their letters "Please be advised that blah would have provided statements to you on a monthly basis and would have advised you if the account had fallen into arrears." So thats ok then:rolleyes:. Strange how they forgot to address the DN in their AQ I wonder why.

 

They really are a bunch, I will have a look at your thread to learn more on our mutual friend.

 

Pumpytums

[hammyhound]

Asked for it in my AQ so still waiting.

 

No terms and conditions either.

 

Looking good but depends on Judge's lottery really

 

HH

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

well as I mentioned above I received my SAR eventually from the OC. Unfortunately in addition to my details they have sent me the agreement account history and statements for someone else. They also offered my a cheque for the circumstances and my out of pocket expenses but they haven't sent it. So its time for another letter. Additionally they sent my documents to the wrong postcode so the post office had to open them.

 

I wonder how many people my information has been sent to in error.

 

I wonder if it would be worth getting them to confirm in writing that there never was a DN?

 

 

Pumpytums

[nicolee2931]

Hi guys just thought I would drop in as i'm in a similar situation with Link.

 

My thread is here.

 

CCJ issued by Link.. Need to defend or set aside. - The Consumer Forums

 

I'm just at the stage you were in at Xmas. We can't let them get away with what they are doing, something stinks in your case and in mine also. They are playing a very dirty game and it needs to stop.

 

Nicola.

[Docman]

Hi everyone,

well as I mentioned above I received my SAR eventually from the OC. Unfortunately in addition to my details they have sent me the agreement account history and statements for someone else. They also offered my a cheque for the circumstances and my out of pocket expenses but they haven't sent it. So its time for another letter. Additionally they sent my documents to the wrong postcode so the post office had to open them.

 

I wonder how many people my information has been sent to in error.

 

I wonder if it would be worth getting them to confirm in writing that there never was a DN?

 

 

Pumpytums

 

 

I think a compliant to the Information Commissioner is in order.

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

well I'm back from my "Hearing" and I'm still alive so thats good.

 

I was quite nervous before the hearing but once I was in the room all was fine as someone here said take a bottle of water it can save you. The hearing room looked like my MD's office which was a little bizarre no wigs, no docks, no irons etc.

 

OK on to the chase the Claimant was going for a summary judgement which was not allowed. The Claimants rep then went on to say that they had not had enough time to get any documents as they were not the OC the judge basically said tough. As the claim was issued last year they have had more than enough time to get them. The judge went on to say that my CPR18 was not applicable which is fair enough. I asked him how I can see the documents he explained that if they mention it they need to produce it and it was for them to prove the case not me to disprove it. So innocent to proven guilty, good judge that nice chap.

 

 

So to sum up Judge ordered usual disclosure of documents and witness statements 2 weeks before trial date. And not less than 7 days before the hearing the claimant shall file and serve on the court and the defendant a trial bundle duly paginated. They shall also serve a skeleton argument dealing with the relevant facts and law involved and shall annex to that argument all authorities and statutes relied upon.

 

So basically they need to produce all the documents 14 days before trial good luck on that one.

 

Is it possible for them to produce a witness statement that does not mention Default notice or termination? I think they are stuffed to be honest if they mention the full amount, termination or default notice I've got them. I of course have got the documents to prove that no default notice was issued. I think thats why they mentioned hearsay evidence in their AQ but this won't be worth the paper it's written on eg "Mr Smith in our litigation department believes a Default notice must have been served as banks issue Default notices".

 

Their POC clearly mentions a Default Notice they have never supplied this even under CPR31.14 pre trial so no allocation was made at this point.

 

On another point as they have not correctly compiled with my s78 would that alone be enough to stop them taking it to court. They have wrong T&C and no PPI summary.

 

It does make me laugh how template their POC's are I wonder how many judgements this **** sucking piece of Shark s&*t gets by default.

 

With regards to my counterclaim how would I go about filing one at this point?

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Well just received the following this is part of the allocation document :-

 

 

By no later than 14 days before the hearing of the the Claimant must send to the Court and to the Defendant copies of all of the documents that they intend to rely upon at the final hearing. They should be in a bundle with each page clearly numbered and the originals should be brought to the hearing.

 

Not less than 7 days before the Small Claims hearing the Claimant shall file at Court and serve on the defendant a trial bundle duly paginated with an index and shall also file and serve a written skeleton argument dealing with the relevant facts and law involved and shall annex to that argument, copies of all authorities and statutes relied on and to be referred to.

 

Good luck with that chaps.

 

Pumpytums

 

[hammyhound]

And they will have to pay for the hearing fee as well - it just gets better.

 

Slightly behind you pumpy, just had a hearing where the judge has asked for all documents to be produced by next week otherwise they can't rely on them:D

 

The judge in my hearing also said in the order "the court would like to address the contents of the claimant's aq" so similar to yours.

 

I bet Stink discontinue sooner rather than later.

 

Keep fighting

 

HH

[MandM]

Hi PT,

 

 

 

Hi everyone,

well I'm back from my "Hearing" and I'm still alive so thats good.

 

I was quite nervous before the hearing but once I was in the room all was fine as someone here said take a bottle of water it can save you. The hearing room looked like my MD's office which was a little bizarre no wigs, no docks, no irons etc.

 

OK on to the chase the Claimant was going for a summary judgement which was not allowed. The Claimants rep then went on to say that they had not had enough time to get any documents as they were not the OC the judge basically said tough. As the claim was issued last year they have had more than enough time to get them. The judge went on to say that my CPR18 was not applicable which is fair enough. I asked him how I can see the documents he explained that if they mention it they need to produce it and it was for them to prove the case not me to disprove it. So innocent to proven guilty, good judge that nice chap.

 

 

So to sum up Judge ordered usual disclosure of documents and witness statements 2 weeks before trial date. And not less than 7 days before the hearing the claimant shall file and serve on the court and the defendant a trial bundle duly paginated. They shall also serve a skeleton argument dealing with the relevant facts and law involved and shall annex to that argument all authorities and statutes relied upon.

 

So basically they need to produce all the documents 14 days before trial good luck on that one.

 

Is it possible for them to produce a witness statement that does not mention Default notice or termination? Yes. But you can still raise it in your defence. I think they are stuffed to be honest if they mention the full amount, termination or default notice I've got them. I of course have got the documents to prove that no default notice was issued. I think thats why they mentioned hearsay evidence in their AQ but this won't be worth the paper it's written on eg "Mr Smith in our litigation department believes a Default notice must have been served as banks issue Default notices".

 

Their POC clearly mentions a Default Notice they have never supplied this even under CPR31.14 pre trial so no allocation was made at this point. Which makes it difficult not to mention it in their WS

 

On another point as they have not correctly compiled with my s78 would that alone be enough to stop them taking it to court. They have wrong T&C and no PPI summary. Don't know. You'll need to start digging.

 

It does make me laugh how template their POC's are I wonder how many judgements this **** sucking piece of Shark s&*t gets by default.

 

With regards to my counterclaim how would I go about filing one at this point? i believe that you can enter a CC at any time. I also think their's a charge if you now enter it at this point. Don't think it's much though and you can possibly get it waivered circumstances allowing.

 

Thanks

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Hi hammy,

yes it's quite a lot too I wonder when they will discontinue.

 

Hi mandm,

thanks for the info.

 

Cheers

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

got my court date now pretty standard stuff. Standard Disclosure, Copies of Witness statements and documents relied upon 14 days before trial. Originals to be bought to trial. Skeleton argument by Claimant with statutes etc 7 days before trial.

 

In the process of knocking up my witness statement it's nearly done now. I have gone for a chronological approach so everything is in order how it happened then in a summary I have stated why I think they haven't a hope.

 

I going to have to mention their NOA as it provides some info I may need, but the NOA doesn't provide proof of assignment so I shall still push for the deed.

 

I'm obviously expecting them to try it on with their "hearsay" evidence

 

As time to exchange comes nearer (It doesn't mention simultaneous exchange) I will ring them up and ask them if they are ready to exchange statements. Once they confirm I will send it. Am I right in thinking they should have it in their possession 14days before trial and visa versa? I don't want them to modify their witness or is it witless statement after seeing mine.

 

If they fail to deliver should I contact the Court immediately?

 

Pumpytums

[pumpytums]

Hi everyone,

just to update the Claimant Link have now decided to discontinue.

 

The Claim was doomed from the beginning as the OC had NEVER issued a DN. Unfortunately it wasn't till a few months ago I could actually confirm this and provide proof.

 

So basically the OC had committed a repudiatory breach of agreement. The DCA (assignee) due to their actions in deed and writing had unlawfully terminated, demanded sums not yet due, issued proceedings for the full amount etc. Basically the full monty. Their POC clearly mentioned the DN, which they needed to provide, as it never existed and was never issued none could be produced.

 

The point I think that is work noting is the OC's actions or lack of them. To actually produce the SAR info with the critical log information, took 7 months.

Had I known more at the time and had the funds they would have been in court full stop. I was at one point literally 2 days away from issuing a claim I was waiting for pay-day.

 

Do I think thing the OC and assignee were playing games that's a big yes. I already have an official complaint with the OC depending on the outcome I will also be reporting them to the ICO.

 

Can the OC come back and try again? The account was subject to a repudiatory breach of contract. I have of course accepted this and under no circumstances will ever affirm that a contract still exists. I have a letter that was sent to the OC. As the arrears are quite low and I have a perfect case for breach of contract so I wish them good luck with that. They may try issuing a DN but that ship has long since sailed, as a DN indicated that an agreement exists/endures.

 

Ok so words to the wise I'm no expert but this is what I have learned.

 

1. Keep everything, envelopes included.

 

2. Don't expect certain companies to play by the rules they don't.

 

3. If you get a letter from Link take it very seriously, I read a link about this and thought yeah yeah. But be prepared they do issue proceedings on nothing but air. Generally they don't have the documents prior to issuing. Their POC's are generic.

 

4. Under no circumstances when you get a letter from link "Sale of your Debt" acknowledge it in any way.

 

5. Do not speak to them on the phone they are fishing for info, more importantly if your a home owner.

 

6. SECURE your information from the OC. I cannot over stress this send your SAR and chase it up.

 

7. Post up your details if Link are involved people WILL help as best they can.

 

So I would like to thank everyone who has helped me on this thread and others. I will continue to help pass on help where I can.

 

Long Live CAG :D

 

Pumpytums

[silverfox1961]

Great news I'm not sure they can try again but I would be going for a wasted costs order against them

[hammyhound]

Congrats Pumpy,

 

You have been following my thread and I do hope I am going the same way as you. About to prepare my witness statement as my court date is fast approaching.

 

I have followed your thread and I seem to be in exactly the same position as you. Did a SAR 2 months ago have chased up but to no avail so I will base my statement on the deliberate act of not including the DN in their witness statement and fobbing me off with a 3 page terms and conditions which certainly were not on the back of the "agreement" and since when do terms and conditions say "additional conditions" and start at 8.

 

I am so pleased for you hopefully I will update as the time to the hearing gets closer.

 

HH

[pumpytums]

Thanks Hammy,

I have posted it in your thread and it's in mine somewhere give Santander's Data Management department a ring on this number you will get your SAR then.

 

Credit Data Management

Tel: 0871 5225085

 

Pumpytums

[angel_1]

hiya Pumpytums

 

fab news, it just goes to show how far they go and hope for no one to defend so they can get an easy win

 

i will re read you whole thread later cheers angel x

[pumpytums]

Thanks Angel,

ok a little update regarding the assignment. Basically I wrote to the OC asking in a recent letter what they meant exactly by Link Financial now administered the account, this was the exact response from the OC:

 

I can confirm that when the account was assigned to Link Financial this was an assignment of all rights and they became the legal owners of the account.

 

 

So there we go not ground breaking but this could be very useful in the future if another DCA has a stab or the OC try to issue a DN after Sink terminated the account.

 

Pumpytums