constructive dismissal?

[elpulpo]

sick note by recorded delivery.

Don't trust anyone.

[jackson1982]

yeah exactly I no longer do probably all back stabbng as we speak about "things I suposedly said".

Do you mind if I make this a private discussion?

Just well aware that anyone could maybe work out who I am and where I work.

 

Jackson

[elpulpo]

Only PM if you thinks it's essential, it's a public forum.

Others might have advice for you too

PM's tend to be frowned upon

[jackson1982]

Ok no worries, understand that. Just don't want someone from work being on here but probably just being a bit paranoid.

[elpulpo]

In your position I wouldn't worry about it.

Might make em see sense.

It's not like you've named the company.

 

Has happened in the past that an HR dept have found someone's posts (see deathbycrayons post)

They tried to use it against him - sent a printout of every page of the post!

Didn't do em any good.

[kurvaface]

I've just read through that....it's incredible.

 

 

You haven't said anything on here that should be a problem for anyone. You are seeking advice which you are perfectly entitled to do. If your employer offers to pay for a solicitor for you then perhaps you would have a choice.

[jackson1982]

ok no worries, bit of a relief really. Thought they could use it but tried not to mention names etc.

 

Jackson

[elpulpo]

Do you have friends at work who you feel you can trust?

Someone who can gauge what the atmosphere is.

How many people work there?

[Philip23]

Can't add anything to what everyone else has said..........just follow the advice offered.

 

As everyone has stated, it's really difficult to prove Constructive Dismissal. Without a doubt the first action must be to lodge a Grievance.

 

Best of luck.

[jackson1982]

Yes I have friends, but they won't and don't know what is going on.

All they will know is that I am off sick and that I still in the position I was pre-meeting.

I will find out maybe tonight or tomorrow and see what is being said if anything, but I very much doubt a word would have been muttered on the floor.

I spoke to someone after the meeting and was told that people don't like the way I am changing things around just now (which I was brought into do) however most were happy. I guess the people that were not happy, have told the boss about the so called things I said.

All in its about 50-60 staff.

 

Philip, thanks.

I understand its hard to prove although I'm hoping after a meeting with a solicitor or employment lawyer then I will know what to do but for now I think what has been advised is spot on.

Lodging a grievance first thing on Monday so will let you know how that goes.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jackson

[Offkey81]

If you have insurance -either car or home - call them up and ask if you have legal expense attached (noone knows they have it - or think it just pays soliciors if you have a crash) - it could pay any legal fees you face (employment tribunal claims etc).

 

Also, if you resign you must consider your financial position - benefits are harder to get because you have put youself out of work and it could be months until the tribunal.

 

You will generally only have a short time with the solicitor so be prepared to discuss things accuratly and concisley and ask questions. You must remember that there is always the possibility that they had the right to demote (although remote) so potentially the only issue is with the way they handled it (very badly of course). But You must remember that the statutory discipline and greivance procedures got removed and replaced with the less stringent acas code to stop the amount of litigation over the procedure, so while I accept it is wrong to do it, it is not concrete that you have a case amounting to constructive dismissal (or they would have left the automatically unfair dismissal legislation in place) and it will be difficult (nigh on impossible) For the solicitor to tell you, with so few facts and little time in front of him, whether or not you stand a chance (no contract, D & G procedures etc)

 

Without these facts/documents a solicitor is highly unlikly to risk his liability insurance and tell you to resign, be prapared for more than one meeting and him asking for 1. money, 2. copies of your insurance policies (car and home) 3. On an initial no win no fee basis until they can properly asses. So dont expecyt it all to become clear cut.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Offkey81

[elpulpo]

months until the tribunal, possibly years before you get paid out.

If ever.

[jackson1982]

Update!

Been signed off for 2 weeks wth stress and doctor gave me the same sort of advice.

Read the policies on the ACAS website and it seems that they have done nothing at all "by the book" as expected.

 

Photocopied the sick note and sent it recorded delivery with a letter requesting the D&G policies which are the same no matter what level the role is in the company.

 

After calling in sick yesterday I was called by the boss and told him I had the doctors, then called again asking how I got on but told him it wasnt until today.

 

He then called again this afternoon and ignored it but then had to send a text and told him I had a line and its for 2 weeks so hopefully won't get hassled until then.

 

Next step grievance letter.

 

Jackson

[kurvaface]

That's one step out of the way

[elpulpo]

phase one completed, my friend.

sit tight.

remember that you have our full support.

 

'nothing is often a good thing to do. Almost always a good thing to say.'

[jackson1982]

Got an update

received grievance and disciplinary procedures through thus morning with a letter staring that if I wanted to make a grievance then I could via contacting HR by letter.

The letter also was a bit should I say soft with a hope you feel better at the end, totally not what I expected.

 

Still want to raise the grievance and try get some pay from them for the 2 weeks I was off work.

Elpulpo your format which you outlined last week sounded good, any others will be much appreciated as how I should outline it and then make a statement for it.

 

Jackson

[elpulpo]

I'll have another good look through your post & get back tomorrow AM Jackson. Gotta dash out tonight

[elpulpo]

So it's grievance time!

I'd write a concise letter, stating the points I suggested.

(and anything else you think is relevant)

Keep it simple and to the point.

You don't have to elaborate to much.

 

Is there someone at work you can ask to accompany you to the hearing?

 

Then I'd suggest you set about writing a statement to present to them at the hearing - I think a written statement is always preferable to trying to actually speak.

You just put it on the table and sit back.

[jackson1982]

Ok got the points written down and ready to type away.

Do I make the grievance against my boss or HR?

 

Is it advisable to comment on my clean record throughout my ten tear speel and good character and that they have whats the word when someone says things against your character?

 

I will get someone to go along with me no problem.

 

I am due bck to work a week on Saturday, obviously HR are not available on weekends so do you think calling in sick until Monday is advisable or try and arrange the grievance hearing before the weekend (whilst on sick)?

 

Thanks

 

Jackson

[jackson1982]

Oh and another point, should I mention in the letter about the language usedin the so called disciplinary hearing/chat?

e.g. "stupid boy" doesn't trust me etc etc?

 

Jackson

[elpulpo]

Address the letter to whoever sent you the D&G procedures from HR.

Unless the letter you recieved states otherwise.

 

Make the letter very concise - you're not expressing your grievance in this letter, you'll do that in a statement that you'll present to the person(s) who holds the grievance hearing.

You're merely setting out what the general grounds of your grievance are.

 

So, something like this-

 

(your name, address & position on top right of page)

(HR officers name, address top left)

 

Date

 

Dear (insert name)

 

I wish to express a Formal Grievance in accordance with the (company name) Grievance procedure.

 

The main points of my Grievance are-

 

(Firstly give a brief factual account of what has happened, from Tosspot approaching you regarding the matter onwards.

Don't go on about it! Just briefly say what happened.

 

Now state why you are aggrieved. So, eg. )

 

 

Tosspot's actions constituted a complete disregard of company disciplinary procedure, in that there was-

 

-no prior written intimation that there was an accusation of misconduct against you.

 

-no prior notification of a disciplinary hearing.

 

-no right to be accompanied by a work colleague or trade union official.

 

-no evidence was provided to you, prior to the hearing or indeed at the hearing, to substantiate the accusations against you.

 

-Tosspot was abusive towards you and used demeaning language.

 

-Tosspot summarily demoted you. This was completely unfair as you are not guilty of the accusations made against you. Using a demotion as a means of punishment was humiliating (probably against the D&G procedure too, Jackson-check) and has caused you a great deal of stress and embarrassment.

 

(I can't think of anything else you might want to add.

But remember, you're just setting out the grounds of your grievance at this point. You'll elaborate in the statement you'll give to the hearing.)

 

Please respond within 7 days.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Jackson.

Edited December 3, 2009 by elpulpo
I'm a chef, not Ruth Rendell

[elpulpo]

Don't actually call him Tosspot in the letter though.

[elpulpo]

How ya getting on?

[jackson1982]

Hi,

 

Im good, yourself?

 

Have the letter all ready to go, just about to go post just now so they have until next weekend to get back to me, but after seeing it I think they will respond sooner rather than later

 

Thanks again

 

Jackson

[elpulpo]

Hope what I posted yesterday was of help.

 

Remember, keep calm.

If they try and contact you by phone now, just flatly say that all communication should be by letter.

 

Keep ya chin up.