Are these CCA's enforceable

[shirei12]

Hi,

I am going to start a new thread on this as I now have two CCA's and thought I should merge the two together.

Could I please have opinions on the following two CCA's which HFC say and I quote "we provide a copy of the executed agreements that does not include information which it permitted to exclude such as the signatures and signature box" Had to read that many times and it still doesnt make sense to me

On the second one Page 2 and 4 of the t&c's missing ( page 2 to must be signature?) Also at the top right it states "on trade premises" which it was not.Also no interest rates.

The only parts I have blanked out are account details and name and address.

 

I would apreciate views on these.

 

first agreement:

 

second agreement:

Edited November 15, 2009 by shirei12

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Print name do not sign

 

**amend to suit your circumstances.**

[shirei12]

Thanks for the letter cerberusalert,but they have stated in covering letter that they are unable to provide a photocopy of the executed agreements.

Could they be enforced?

[42man]

IMO opinion no....

[shirei12]

Thanks 42man,would it be safe to cancel direct debit now? These vultures added life insurance to one account without it being on the original agreement (which I have )and we have been paying it for 11 years when the original term for loan was only 60 months.

[42man]

Very interesting....have you worked out how much you have paid and how much the PPI was ? It would seem you have a claim possibly !! - BBC NEWS | Business | HFC Bank fined £1m over insurance

[42man]

Amazing a 5 year loan and you have been paying for 11 years, I think what you need to do Shirei, is write them a letter requesting all PPI back + compound interest + compensation + excessive charges....

[42man]

If they don't respond or fail to respond to your satisfaction then make out an official complaint to the FOS, I think you would have some money due to you !!! However you need to allow them to rectify your dispute - and in light of the FSA ruling, then I think you would have a VERY strong case....

[shirei12]

There was no PPI just a decreasing term life insurance which we didnt ask for or agree to. We even cancelled our life insurance with Lloyds which we had for about 8 years because this one was added.

Estimate we have paid £1600.00.

Edited November 13, 2009 by shirei12

[42man]

As you already had life cover then i'd state it was obviously missold !! How much was the loan for ? do you know how much the life cover was ? how much in charges ?

[shirei12]

We have been in touch with Hamiltons Insurance qouting policy numbers (these have changed several times on our bank statements).

They have confirmed that they relate to an agreement with HFC and we had been paying it since 1998 but as the schedule was never forwarded to them they could not tell us which agreement or what benefits there were on the policy. It all seems very strange.

I have written to HFC asking for information on the two policy numbers and they received that letter yesterday.

[42man]

Have you done a full SAR Shirei ?

[shirei12]

Yes received it today Loads of it.

No idea what the life cover cost as its not on the agreement. As yet I have not found it in the SAR. Loads to look at.

[shirei12]

This the wording of covering letter that came with CCA. Is what they state true and would it apply to what they have supplied as my CCA???

[shirei12]

I am wondering if I should withold payments now as one is due on Monday?? Any suggestions anyone??

[shirei12]

Just bumping up for comments

[shirei12]

I have now stopped payment on both these accounts and I will send the letter that cerberusalert has put in post no.2.I have asked for details of the life insurance. Have been through SAR and no details on it there.

I hope I have done the right thing

[krikkie]

Under secton 172 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a statement made by a creditor under s78 (which is the section you made the request for the cca under) is binding.

 

Your lender has said that the blank copy he has provided is a true copy of the original and hence this statement is binding upon him even if he does find the original IMO (I'm no lawyer mind).

 

The blank copy they have provided does not contain important prescribed terms, such as the interest rate, and hence is unenforcealbe.

 

See if you can get some debt advice on this, perhaps on Legal Aid if your income is low. Give a few solicitors a ring and see what they say.

 

Good luck and keep us updated!

[shirei12]

Under secton 172 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a statement made by a creditor under s78 (which is the section you made the request for the cca under) is binding.

 

Your lender has said that the blank copy he has provided is a true copy of the original and hence this statement is binding upon him even if he does find the original IMO (I'm no lawyer mind).

 

The blank copy they have provided does not contain important prescribed terms, such as the interest rate, and hence is unenforcealbe.

 

See if you can get some debt advice on this, perhaps on Legal Aid if your income is low. Give a few solicitors a ring and see what they say.

 

Good luck and keep us updated!

Thanks Krikkie thats very interesting. There is also no signatures.

I was hoping for more comments on them but.......

[AndyOrch]

Hi Shirei

 

Unenforcable,if they had the original they would have supplied it.I see you have sent the account in dispute letter and as such you are now withdrawing payment,ball is in their court now see what transpires!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

[shirei12]

Thanks once again Andy.

[shirei12]

Well 10 days past since they got the letter above and no reply. They are however adding charges to the account now.

[shirei12]

No longer applicable to this thread

Edited May 20, 2010 by shirei12
no longer applicable to this thread

[AndyOrch]

Nice bit of reconstruction there Shire you can wave both of them in Court and ask which they will be relying on:D

 

 

Andy

[shirei12]

So there should only be one then?I have sent all information to FOS as Insurance clearly not applied for here,mine or theirs Payments to date £1700+.

 

Shirei