Help need with court claim please

[avarose]

Hi,

 

So i have heard nothing further from Shoosmiths since their letter saying that they had given my last letter to Alliance and Leicester. I need to get moving on a few things now.

 

I know i need to write a letter to the court to tell them that i have been trying to resolve this out of court and enclose the proofs of posting etc. I will do this tomorrow.

 

I need a bit of help with this though - on the claimants draft directions it says that by 1st March - Monday (!) each party must give to the other party standard disclosure by list with inspection seven days thereafter. Does it stand / apply even though it says draft directions and they had a stay granted? Shall i get a list together and send it to them regardless? I am a but confused as the last letter i had from the court said that if the issue was not resolved then the next step would be that they would look at the AQ's.

 

So as far as the list goes, do i need list every letter i have ever written to A&L and shoosmiths about this matter? Including the letters where i am just sending them £1 a month? Or do i just list documents that are "important" to the case? I am a bit annoyed with myself as i have put without prejudice on a few of my letters - advice taken before i knew what all this meant to be honest.. My fault.

 

As always, any advice greatly apreciated.

Edited February 24, 2010 by avarose

[citizenB]

Hi,

 

So i have heard nothing further from Shoosmiths since their letter saying that they had given my last letter to Alliance and Leicester. I need to get moving on a few things now.

 

I know i need to write a letter to the court to tell them that i have been trying to resolve this out of court and enclose the proofs of posting etc. I will do this tomorrow.

 

I need a bit of help with this though - on the claimants draft directions it says that by 1st March - Monday (!) each party must give to the other party standard disclosure by list with inspection seven days thereafter. Does it stand / apply even though it says draft directions and they had a stay granted? Shall i get a list together and send it to them regardless? I am a but confused as the last letter i had from the court said that if the issue was not resolved then the next step would be that they would look at the AQ's.

 

So as far as the list goes, do i need list every letter i have ever written to A&L and shoosmiths about this matter? Including the letters where i am just sending them £1 a month? Or do i just list documents that are "important" to the case? I am a bit annoyed with myself as i have put without prejudice on a few of my letters - bad advice taken before i knew what all this meant to be honest.. My fault.

 

As always, any advice greatly apreciated.

 

Hi ava,

 

The draft directions, were they from the court with a court stamp or just paperwork that was sent to you from Shoosmiths ?.

 

The court should actually send you a General form of order which gives instructions as to what you need to do and when. If I were you, I would speak to the court and ask if one has in fact been sent out to you.

 

If the court hasnt even looked at the AQs yet, then I rather suspect they havent.. but always best to check.

 

Say that you have received this information from the opposition and you dont know whether it has been ok'd by the court and what if anything you are supposed to be doing next.

 

When you do a disclosure by list, you need to list all the documents you are intending to rely on in court. If you have mentioned it in your defence or AQ then you should list it. Better to list everything and it not be needed rather than not list it and find that you cant use it in court. The other side should do the same. YOu then have the opportunity to ask them to send you copies of documents on their list and they are able to request the same from you.

 

The link below is the Practice direction in connection with the disclosure list

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION - Ministry of Justice

 

and the form you will use will be an N265 which can be downloaded from

 

>>>>>>>> HERE

[avarose]

Wow thanks citB! Speedy response!

 

No the draft directions were just from Shoosmiths - nothing from the court at all apart from the notice of stay etc. You are right - i am going to call the court in the morning to check.

 

So in regards to the list - can i list their docs as well as mine? i.e where they have terminated in a letter, where they accepted / rejected my payment offers and the DN's etc? Not sure why but i thought it was just my own letters etc. Ok so i will basically list everything that does not have without prejudice on it from me and the important letters etc i have had from them.

 

Thanks!!!

[avarose]

Spoken to the court and yes, the draft directions do not stand. Judge has not even looked at AQ's yet so no need for me to panic about the 1st March. Am sending off copies of my attempts to settle during the stay to the court today.

 

Will keep you updated.

 

All the best

[bozalt]

Hi Ava

 

My court case is coming up soon with A&L, I will update you with any relevant information I discover.

 

Best of luck

 

B

[bozalt]

Hi Ava

 

I hope all is well with you, have you had any further news?

 

Best regards

 

B

[avarose]

Hi there,

How did it go for you? Nothing happening on my side - still waiting to hear from the court...

[the_shadow]

Hi avarose,

 

I'd almost forgotten all about this thread ;-)

 

Have you heard anything from shoo's at all?

 

I believe the deadlines were the middle of march for either a) Settled b) Further stay on application c) Aq's but both sides to agree parts settled PRIOR to sending.

 

If they have not contacted you then its still stalemate imo

 

Think it might be worth contacting the court and ensuring they have not filed their AQ without complying with the judges directions first.

 

S.

[bozalt]

Well no news is good news as they say, fingers crossed for you.

 

I went to court today for SJ hearing, Shoos did not attend so SJ was dismissed and I was awarded costs. It looks like they are now willing to accept repayments at a level I can afford so for me that is fair.

 

I hope that they see sense in your case also.

 

Best regards

 

B

[the_shadow]

Well no news is good news as they say, fingers crossed for you.

 

I went to court today for SJ hearing, Shoos did not attend so SJ was dismissed and I was awarded costs. It looks like they are now willing to accept repayments at a level I can afford so for me that is fair.

 

I hope that they see sense in your case also.

 

Best regards

 

B

 

Sense... yep that would be good

 

Doubt the judge was happy for them not to turn up, hope u hit them with a large amount of costs.... and glad you've come to a satisfactory agreement for yourself.

 

S.

[bozalt]

I guess I an optimist hoping that sense would be applied

 

I dont think the judge was impressed but unfortunately I wasnt prepared to be awarded costs so I guessed at £80.00 which is better than nothing I suppose.

 

I will know for next time!

[avarose]

Hi there,

 

I have now read your thread Bozalt and really happy that you are at some sort of a result at last! Doesn't it all seam a bit silly when all they had to do was accept that we are totally broke and will pay them what we can until we become solvent again?

 

Anyway... Thanks for stopping in The Shadow. I could understand you drifting off to sleep on my thread as it is pretty boring at the moment!

 

So where we are - you are correct. We both submitted AQ's already but they had asked for a stay, it was granted before the judge looked at the AQ's at all apparently. The other side did not contact me during the stay - well, only the once in a W/P letter to say that they had got my letters but nothing other than that. They had put in draft directions but they did not stand etc. So i sent copies of my attempts to resolve the issue during the stay to the Court ( under the advice of one of the Court clerks) and that is where we are. I imagine that the judge is still getting around to looking at the AQ's?

 

Like you say though, i think i may call the court on Monday just to double check i'm not missing anything.

[avarose]

Hmm.. Just on the off chance that a similar thing happens to me as Bozalt ( really similar cases i think) How DO you work out your own costs? What is a reasonable amount to suggest???? Thanks.

[supasnooper]

COSTS THREADS

 

Have a look at the pdf's that Surfaceagentx20 has attached at the bottom of the post on a letter for wasted costs -

 

Surfaceagentx20 wasted costs

also

 

Liabilty for Costs CPR 38.6

Sharpman v Nationwide credit card services ***WON WITH WASTED COSTS***

 

Welcome/Cohens - case withdrawn ***WOO-HOO ***

 

have a look at this post by IGNM on costs as well -

 

IGNM post on costs

 

and a B_R_W post on what else you can claim - B_R_W additional costs you can claim

Time limit for claiming costs - Surfaceagentx20

[avarose]

Thank you! I will have a read...

[bozalt]

Hmm.. Just on the off chance that a similar thing happens to me as Bozalt ( really similar cases i think) How DO you work out your own costs? What is a reasonable amount to suggest???? Thanks.

 

Hi Ava

 

Our cases certainly are similar, I hope you have an equally satisfactory outcome.

 

I was not really prepared to be awarded costs so only asked for a figure representative of the cost to me of actually taking time off work to attend court.

 

I wish I had seen the post from surfaceagentx20 recommended by Supasnooper before!

 

All the best

 

B

[avarose]

Hi everyone, hope you had a great Easter break.

 

Just to let you know that i have now had a letter from the court saying that the other side had until the 14th April to submit new directions. If they did not respond then it will be struck out. I imagine that they will respond to that so i am just waiting to see what directions they submit etc and move on from there. I will let you know as soon as i hear anything...

 

All the best

[avarose]

Hi,

 

Just to keep you updated. I had a letter from Shoosmiths last Thursday, copying me in on a letter they have sent to the court. They have asked for another months stay! They said along the lines of that they were endeavouring to resolve the issue with me and were in negotiations etc and hoped to resolve it rather than take up court time etc. Well this made me so angry as they have done nothing of the sort! They have ignored all of my attempts to resolve this.

 

So i wrote them a letter ( sent by Special on Friday) saying i was a bit suprised that they had asked for another stay and their reasons - as they have been ignoring my letters etc and said that i hoped this meant that they would now finally consider resolving this out of court etc. And i sent a copy of the letter to the court too. I wanted the court to see that i am all along trying to resolve this and that the other side are not really telling the truth...

 

I have heard nothing further and have very little faith that i will hear from Shoosmiths, i think that they will wait to see what the court do, if the courts grant another stay then i know that Shoosmiths will do nothing in that month and we will go on and on... What a waste of time.

 

So, sorry i have nothing more interesting to write but i will keep you updated on any developments.

 

Many thanks

[citizenB]

Hi,

 

Just to keep you updated. I had a letter from Shoosmiths last Thursday, copying me in on a letter they have sent to the court. They have asked for another months stay! They said along the lines of that they were endeavouring to resolve the issue with me and were in negotiations etc and hoped to resolve it rather than take up court time etc. Well this made me so angry as they have done nothing of the sort! They have ignored all of my attempts to resolve this.

 

So i wrote them a letter ( sent by Special on Friday) saying i was a bit suprised that they had asked for another stay and their reasons - as they have been ignoring my letters etc and said that i hoped this meant that they would now finally consider resolving this out of court etc. And i sent a copy of the letter to the court too. I wanted the court to see that i am all along trying to resolve this and that the other side are not really telling the truth...

 

I have heard nothing further and have very little faith that i will hear from Shoosmiths, i think that they will wait to see what the court do, if the courts grant another stay then i know that Shoosmiths will do nothing in that month and we will go on and on... What a waste of time.

 

So, sorry i have nothing more interesting to write but i will keep you updated on any developments.

 

Many thanks

 

Hmmm, now I wonder what their game is ? That is good you have copied in the court on this. Will be interesting to see what their next move is.

[avarose]

Good morning. Ok so i have had a Tomlin Order from Shoosmiths this morning. They have worded it in such a way that it is very dodgy indeed. Basically they want me to pay their costs - £658 and then £20 a month for six months - ie what i have been trying to pay them for over a year. BUT then it says that after the six months of £20 per month ends " the defendant shall pay such future payments as the bank requires for the following period of six months" What! Oh yeah i am really going to agree to that... They could ask for £1000 a month or something!

 

So advice and thoughts please, i am so annoyed that they have done this, i have offered them £20 a month for so long and don't see why i should pay their costs at all. And no way am i agreeing to that Tomlin Order as it stands....

 

Many thanks in advance

Edited April 15, 2010 by avarose

[citizenB]

Hi ava,

 

I see no reason why you should pay for their costs. Having rejected on more than one occasion the offer you previously made them and which they are now prepared to accept.. they were the ones who continued to pursue this to litigation.

 

When do you need to have responded to their offer ?

 

IMHO, you should be writing them a letter saying you see no reason why you should be responsible for their costs for the reason above.

 

Also, you would like more clarification in respect of the other clause in that they they can just up the amount after 6 months. This is too ambiguous for my liking.

 

Do you want to put together a draft of what you feel would be acceptable and we can fine tune it from there.

[slick132]

Agree with CB on this.

 

They can whistle for their costs, and the Order should be for a fixed monthly amount, otherwise what's the point.

 

[avarose]

Thanks, i will draft something and post it up as soon as i can.

[bozalt]

Hi Ava

 

I hope you manage to get this sorted, A&L were adamant with me that they would not drop fixed costs on the case and I wasnt quite brave enough to test them on it.

 

The clause they have added regarding payments after six months as CB said is in no way acceptable at all, I dont know how they think they can get away with it.

 

Good luck

 

B

[avarose]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my first attempt at a response to the Tomlin Order i have been sent.

 

Any advice in making my point hit home would be much appreciated!!

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Thank you for letter dated 14 April 2010.

 

I was pleased to finally have a response from you in regards to attempting to resolve this matter out of court. However I cannot agree to the Tomlin Order you enclosed with your letter.

 

I do not agree to pay costs as I have on multiple occasions offered to make monthly payments of approximately £20. You or your client could have at any point accepted this without the need for litigation. It was your choice to take legal proceedings and to incur costs. I will, as I have said many times before, pay £20 a month towards the outstanding amount of £xxxx.xx and not the amount you have quoted in item 2 of your Schedule that includes your costs.

 

I also require clarification of item 3 of your Schedule. There has to be a figure stated that I am to pay after the six months of paying £20 a month ends. The vagueness of item 3 makes the Tomlin Order pointless as it should resolve matters and clarify each parties standing. As it is currently written, you are at liberty to seek judgment against me at any time you see fit, by making demands of monthly payments I could not possibly afford.

 

I ask you to drop the request for your costs and to amend item 3 of your Schedule.