This time it's Cabot and Goldfish/MSDW!

[cymruambyth]

Looks like we are getting greedy with our Cabot threads!

This time it's Goldfish. CCA request sent in November for MSDW card issued in 1999. Just received an illegible CCA signed by OH but no-one else, a legible copy of t & cs from 2004 and copy statements from 2003.

I think a couple of letters could be on their way

[cymruambyth]

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. All you have sent is a document, which is barely legible and therefore not compliant with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557), your attention is drawn to regulation 2 (1) which sets out how copy documents must be presented.

 

"Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the ."

 

From what I can see, the document you have provided does not contain any prescribed terms; nor have any historic terms and conditions been supplied.

 

I am therefore unable to assess if I have any liability as claimed by your client.

Is this the best letter, or does anyone have anything stronger re illegible agreements?

Thank you

 

 

[ScabHunter]

I like this one courtesy of diddydicky, although you would need to adapt it a bit -

 

Dear sir/madam.....

 

..............

In your letter you claim to have fulfilled your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, I strongly disagree with this claim as this is contrary to the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557):

 

2. Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

 

Furthermore in your letter you state:

 

‘As you will understand, our applications are filmed for ease of storage and while I agree the attached copy could be clearer, I would disagree it is completely illegible….. Unfortunately I am unable to provide a clearer copy due to the quality of the film’.

 

I disagree with your view that the copy which you have sent me is legible.

 

This dispute will only be resolved if you are able to provide the original consumer credit agreement with the prescribed terms and conditions, signed by me at the time the alleged agreement began.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows no relief from your obligation to provide easily legible copies of documents, however in order to assist you and in view of the desireability of disposing of this matter more efficiently i would suggest that you make the original agreement available for me to inspect,

 

in the ordinary course of events it would be practice for the document to be viewed where it is, however as i am offering to assist to rectify your non compliance i feel it would be reasonable for you to stand the costs of sending this document to a local branch near to me to inspect this document.

 

If in fact, as I suspect, you do not have possession of a properly executed and enforceable agreement then it would be the better for you to tell me so at this stage so that we can then come to some mutually acceptable conclusion to this matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxxx(Print, don't sign)

 

 

SH

[cymruambyth]

Thank you. I thought I had used a different one, but my filing system can let me down.....

[angry cat]

Didn't all their early agreements go down with the twin towers?

[cymruambyth]

Hi ac, probably, but Cabot seem to be archaeologists

[cymruambyth]

Other than a couple of letters pointing out they haven't supplied requested documentation and ignoring their canned music, we have another letter.

They haven't received a satisfactory response, so if we don't reply in 7 days either an outside agency (thought that was what they were) or a solicitor which may result in a CCJ!!!!

Here we go again

[Hadituptohere]

They really are scraping the barrel this lot, ive just sent off my complaint to the OFT after the evidence they have submitted in my case

 

Hadituptohere

[cymruambyth]

Hadit, you seem to be having a bit of a Cabot day:D

I'm trying to cobble together a letter listing their creativity and ignorance:eek:

[pmhcfc]

I'm trying to cobble together a letter listing their creativity and ignorance:eek:

 

Hope you have a lot of ink in your printer

[angry cat]

Hi ac, probably, but Cabot seem to be archaeologists

 

Well, they had better start on another tomb; dig up the inception T&C's!

 

Did you take out the MSDW PPI?

[angry cat]

Hope you have a lot of ink in your printer

 

And and enormous amount of paper!

[Hadituptohere]

LOL every day seems a cabot day cym until I hammer home that nail.

 

angry I have cabot after a MSDW card too and the reply card they have sent has the ppi box ticked...

 

Hadituptohere

[angry cat]

LOL every day seems a cabot day cym until I hammer home that nail.

 

angry I have cabot after a MSDW card too and the reply card they have sent has the ppi box ticked...

 

Hadituptohere

 

 

...and any other document referred to in it [Emphasis Added]

[Pinky69]

Cabot's MSDW application froms are cut and pastes. I told them that - so they sent me a different cut and paste! Nincumpoops. The statements are of 3 different types on 2 different types of paper, the accounting is highly imaginative and there is a spelling mistake all the way through. The T&Cs are a variable feast and there are umpteen different examples of these cut and pastes on site. Daniella is the expert on this. Oompah, oompah - they can stick it right up their corporate joompah!

[angry cat]

Cabot's MSDW application froms are cut and pastes. I told them that - so they sent me a different cut and paste! Nincumpoops. The statements are of 3 different types on 2 different types of paper, the accounting is highly imaginative and there is a spelling mistake all the way through. The T&Cs are a variable feast and there are umpteen different examples of these cut and pastes on site. Daniella is the expert on this. Oompah, oompah - they can stick it right up their corporate joompah!

 

Totally agree...a highly imaginative creative department.

 

MS, couldn't supply;

looks like Cabot decided to make some blue peter's?

[cymruambyth]

That would explain why OH's writing is so clear and everything else is illegible and faded.

[cymruambyth]

A reply to the letter of complaint...............

Regulations 1983/1553 do not deal with the situation, only the CCA

S. 61 is quoted as is s. 189(4) 'A document embodies a provision if the provision is set out either in the document itself or in another document referred to in it'

The t&cs are referred to in the right hand column of text on your agreement. A copy is enclosed as is a copy of t&cs from 2007 when Goldfish acquired account and a generic letter from Goldfish about this acquisiion.

Re s 127(3) of CCA, there is no question of enforcability.

CCa is for consumer protection, not debt avoidance.

 

Cabot has adhered to OFT debt collection guidlines.

If you challenge the enforcability of your CCA go to court to obtain a declaration of unenforceability.

[cymruambyth]

A reply to the letter of complaint.............

s. 189(4) 'A document embodies a provision if the provision is set out either in the document itself or in another document referred to in it' What do quote in response to this please?

The t&cs are referred to in the right hand column of text on your agreement. A copy is enclosed as is a copy of t&cs from 2007 when Goldfish acquired account and a generic letter from Goldfish about this acquisiion.

Re s 127(3) of CCA, there is no question of enforcability. Oh yes there is, illegible, no t&cs

CCa is for consumer protection, not debt avoidance. State we are attempting debt avoidance, surely this is libel as have not supplied documents required?

 

Please can anyone answer these questions?

Thank you

[cymruambyth]

I've just had a phone call from **** asking for my OH by his first name. It is urgent that he phones Financial Investigations and Recoveries tonight.

Further questions revealed that he was phoning from Cabot.

 

Checking the reference number reveals that this is an old Morgan Stanley CC amd the last contact was 8 months ago when I complained about an illegible agreement with unrelated t&cs.

 

Just to warn everyone no surnames were used .......

[PriorityOne]

I've just had a phone call from **** asking for my OH by his first name. It is urgent that he phones Financial Investigations and Recoveries tonight.

Further questions revealed that he was phoning from Cabot.

 

Checking the reference number reveals that this is an old Morgan Stanley CC amd the last contact was 8 months ago when I complained about an illegible agreement with unrelated t&cs.

 

Just to warn everyone no surnames were used .......

 

Moorcroft tried that one a few years ago.... but no-one uses my full name, so I smelled a phish immediately.... lol

[cymruambyth]

Hi P1

 

I agree they all sound like reps who are your best friends when they phone. This time though it was not obvious who was calling, Financial Investingations and Recoveries, could this be Fire? Their title is more likely to provoke a response!

I also didn't like the fact that it was urgent that they spoke to OH last night. They also wanted to know where he was ......... ha b ha.

 

I've had a look through everything and it relates to a MSDW card that is about 12 years old and which has an illegible CCA with t&cs from nearly every year other than when the card was issued.

 

Looks like the merry go round is about to start again!!

[BankFodder]

record all your calls. It is the only way to avoid trouble and regret in the future.

[the_shadow]

I see today that Cabot has been sold to the firm that owns Apex, perhaps that'll lead to a tightening of the procedures and compliance

 

...as bankfodder has said Recording is the way forward, if ever it does get to court being able to show a judge a transcription of some of these companies calls would hurt them where it hurts.

 

S.

[DonkeyB]

Recording would indeed be good. They have quite clearly revealed to someone who is not your husband (ie. you) that he supposedly owes money. That is against OFT guidelines, as well as data protection, and a recording would drop them right in it.