Halifax Overdraft - Changes to Accounts £1 a day

[Bigdebtor]

Bigyeti

 

That strikes me as being pretty much a dodgy DN - if so then the new letter cancelling the agreement early would mean unlawful rescission - meaning you are off the hook and only owe lawful arrears?

 

If you're not familiar with them., check out Pinky69's thread on Invalid Default Notices (and other similar excellent threads).

 

BD

[stacywoodhouse]

They were supposed to call me last week, I am still waiting.

 

strange... will keep you posted if they call me.

[bigyeti]

How does an account become disputed? I've written to the FOS and they have said my complaint is in a queue but I have yet to receive any specific reply.

[bigyeti]

Also, in another thread:

 

"if they terminated on the back of a faulty DN you legally only owe then the arrears on the account at the time of the termination"

 

However, the arrears are formed of the unagreed £1 per day charge.

[bigyeti]

I'm sending a CCA request. I amended the template letter with:

 

"Please be aware that this must show my and categorical and unequivocal consent to be liable for your new charges regime introduced in December 2009."

 

Of course, this agreement does not exist.

[surprise]

Halifax issued a default notice giving me until 23rd June, however, I have had a letter today terminating my agreement as I have breached the terms and conditions of the agreement. The matter is now being passed to a DCA.

 

Thank you very kindly I say.

 

I'm just awaiting the outcome of the Scottish case on Friday as I believe I have strong grounds under S140 as they told me outright lies in December 2008 when they told me they were phasing out Electron cards and that I needed to make an appointment to see an adviser which I did in Jan 2009, changed my card to a Visa and have had nothing but problems since. Had no problems with the old Electron card.

 

They are apparently still offering the Electron card and I've seen people using them in the bank and shops. Thats only one issue I have with them. Two complaints with FOS awaiting the outcome of the Ombudsman.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

Re the faulty Default Notice..

Unfortunately overdrafts are, by their very nature, repayable in full on demand, so there are no arrears as in the case of a fixed term or running credit agreement.The invalid DN would therefore not be of benefit in this respect (ie in rendering only the arrears at time of unlawful rescission being due). However it would, I believe, still raise the possibilty of a counterclaim for damages, which together with unfair charges, if the GLC case goes our way, could help reduce or clear the account.

[surprise]

Thank you. However, because Halifax wouldn't close the account I am presuming that it does mean that they cannot charge anything else to the account from 7th June?

[Undercover-Elsa]

I would sincerely hope not.

That said, they are totally inconsistent in how they deal with different customer's accounts, as can be seen on here.

[surprise]

The Halifax have responded in double quick time to my letter of 9th June 10, however, before responding as I want to make sure I am clear of my facts, the termination letter and their response are attached.

 

I will let you read them first and hopefully I will get some feedback.

Halifax letter 10.6.10 GAG.doc

Halifax Termination GAG.doc

[Undercover-Elsa]

That's a pretty sweeping statement, Suprise, "if you pay in £xxx we will remove all charges from your account"

 

I'm not sure they quite realise what they've said there???

[Bookworm]

Ok, so whilst the default notice time was running, the account was still attracting charges, but now it's not. Whether that stopped from the 7th or the 10th, we can't tell since you have blanked the numbers, but presumably you can work it out from the totals?

[Bigdebtor]

Elsa

 

Well spotted!

 

I think this offer should be grabbed with both hands! I wish they'd send me a letter like that. I wonder how many others have got one and don't yet realise just how valuable it could be!

 

Can they make such a genrous offer to one client - and tell others to sod off?

 

Doesn't FOS, OFT, FSA etc. say everyone in the same circumstances should be treated in the same way?

 

BD

[Bookworm]

I think they'll say they meant that "all charges" mean "between default notice and now" kind of thing, but you never know. If they realise that lots of people are going to let the accounts default altogether, they won't be able to recover the overdraft amounts either, not without difficulty, so it might be in their interest to try and salvage the situation like that. it certainly DOES look like a F&F in essence, but who knows with these unqualified morons?

 

I certainly would clarify this ASAP if I were you. ;-)

[surprise]

On my wavelength.

 

The default notice was issued on 26th May prior to them adding a further £125.00 on 31st May.

 

The default notice gave me until 23rd June, but their termination letter is dated 7th June.

 

The interest charges on the account are what they've added since Jan 10.

 

What about the charges I've already paid, any hope of getting these back on the basis of this letter?

[Bigdebtor]

Bookwaorm

 

Why clarify? They've said it in writing - so they should stick by it.

 

When we made a "mistake" and they bounced a cheque or DD they didn't give US the benefit of the doubt by asking "did you mean to do that?"

 

NO! Their response was £39 CHARGED TO YOU - WALLOP! THANK YOU MA'M!

 

No Mercy! I would definitely now pay the amount asked - and then demand back ALL charges (and associated interest?) to the year dot! I bet they'll pay the cahrges (no interest) "ex gratia" to avoid this going to court - and getting interest added to!

 

BD

[Bookworm]

Sure... except that if Surprise sends a payment in F&F, removing all charges and they come back saying "no, that's not what we meant", the only way to get them to comply will be through the courts, where a judge will decide whether they meant ALL charges or all charges FROM x date.

 

They can't be forced to accept one meaning, any more than Surprise can be forced to pay up what s/he doesn't owe, not without going through the judicial system.

 

My advice therefore stands to use reason instead of anger and to get clarification. Besides, IF it is to be a F&F, s/he will need an amount to verify that the numbers add up.

[surprise]

What I shall do is send a cheque and say that the amount of £xxx charged to the account from xxx to the current date are now waived as per your letter of 10th June 10.

 

Please acknowledge confirmation that the account is clear and closed.

[Bigdebtor]

Let's agree to differ. If it were me I would take the letter as it stands - with no other "interpretation". I would send a third party cheque accepting their offer as outlined in their letter of XXX (don't spell it out again for them to spot the error!)

 

I agree there will be a fight to get the charges refunded - but I don't think it would reach court. They would cave in to avoid the letter getting made public and setting off a swamp of "settlements" from others with the same letter.

 

However if you ask them if they've "made a mistake, then they'll jump at the opportunity to fix it!

 

It will be up to surprise as to how he plays it as it's his money.

[Bookworm]

What I shall do is send a cheque and say that the amount of £xxx charged to the account from xxx to the current date are now waived as per your letter of 10th June 10.

 

Please acknowledge confirmation that the account is clear and closed.

That's the best move, yes, as long as you are sure of your figures. ;-)

 

However, do remember that in law, silence can not be taken as acceptance, so unless they DO confirm that the account is clear and closed, you won't be able to rest easily knowing that you'll never hear from them again.

[Bigdebtor]

S

 

I wouldn't ask for any clarification - just send a cheque (from a third party ideally) selling out the acceptance of their offer as stated in their letter of XXXX as signed by your XXX and enclosing the cheque for £xxx as agreed.

Don't put "in full and final settlement" - just in acceptance of their offer.

 

Only when this cheque has been cashed should you raise the full consequences of what they have offered - and say "I gave you what you asked for and I now claim a refund of all charges as per your offer. Over the last x years such charges have amounted to £xxxx together wth £YYY interest. Please send a cheque in full refund in Z days."

 

THis is what I would do - but up to you!

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[Bigdebtor]

That's the best move, yes, as long as you are sure of your figures. ;-)

 

However, do remember that in law, silence can not be taken as acceptance, so unless they DO confirm that the account is clear and closed, you won't be able to rest easily knowing that you'll never hear from them again.

 

Bookwaorm

 

There's loads of case law that banking a 3rd party cheque is deemed acceptance of the terms of the accompany letter. The cheque should be so annotated on the reverse.

 

BD

[surprise]

I've just spoken with my daughter and she is giving me a cheque the weekend so I will send it off on Monday.

 

It just so happens that because Halifax wouldn't accept my repayment offer I have put the money on one side and I do have it to pay back, so they have messed up big time with me. I must have frustrated them that much with my letters and complaints to the FOS that they typed without thinking.

[Bookworm]

Bookwaorm

 

There's loads of case law that banking a 3rd party cheque is deemed acceptance of the terms of the accompany letter. The cheque should be so annotated on the reverse.

 

BD

There's loads more saying that this is not sufficient, and open to interpretation depending on circumstances.

 

Felthouse v Bindley is still the grandaddy of acceptance/silence law.

[Bigdebtor]

Again - let's agree to differ.

 

Three outcomes seem possible:

 

1. Surprise gets the account closed and all charges outstanding written off.

 

2. Surprise gets all of 1 plus the opportunity to reclaim every charge ever imposed on him.

 

3. Surprise gets 2 plus interest on all charges.

 

I can't see any downside in trying for 2 or 3 after 1 is acheived - but wording the letter and endorsing the cheque is key to avoiding limiting things to just 1.

 

If it were me I would try for 3 (after 1 securely in place) and expect them to settle before court at 2 - or some long way towards 2.

 

BD