Halifax Overdraft - Changes to Accounts £1 a day

[Bigdebtor]

I think we should get their major shareholder (UK Govt) to confirm this. If the majority will benefit then simple arithmetic means the vulnerable minority (those trapped in a now more expensive overdraft) will now be MUCH WORSE OFF - if that's not a definition of unfair trading I don't know what is.

 

If this hypothesis is wrong then the only other explanation is that the Board are deliberately reducing profits which brings their stewardship of OUR company into question - an dthey should be FIRED before they get their bonuses!

 

BD

[180]

Has anyone had a positive response from this yet?

 

I'm concerned I am going to have to spend a lot of time writing back and forth and receiving the same "tough sh!t" letters from the Halifax.

 

I am at the limit of my overdraft and from next month I'll be recieving £30 a month in fees as I no longer pay into that account, whilst paying £50 a month to repay the "debt". I seem to be fighting a losing battle, and some positive news would be a real boost!

[Bigdebtor]

I have heard something about the OFT wanting the banks to allow people to "opt out" of unauthorised overdrafts (as compensation for screwing up and then bottling out of the unfair charges debacle).

I presume they mean we should tell the banks to bounce things (now free at HBOS) which would take us over the agreed limit. Fine (possibly) - so far as it goes.

 

BUT (and I wish OFT would "butt" out where their input is not helpful) what about people trapped in small unauthorised overdrafts - now paying up to £165 per month in new charges on a debt which may have started at just an unauthorsied overdraft of £10.01?

 

Are OFT saying there should be an amnesty and current small overdrafts should be made "authorised" and all future charges frozen?

 

If so, then that WILL be a step forward - but I suspect, as usual, the OFT's guaranteed salary civil servants have NOT thought this through fully.

 

Please OFT - tell me I've got you all wrong and that chocolate CAN make a good teapot!

 

BD

[coolchris]

Has anyone had a positive response from this yet?

 

I'm concerned I am going to have to spend a lot of time writing back and forth and receiving the same "tough sh!t" letters from the Halifax.

 

I am at the limit of my overdraft and from next month I'll be recieving £30 a month in fees as I no longer pay into that account, whilst paying £50 a month to repay the "debt". I seem to be fighting a losing battle, and some positive news would be a real boost!

 

Nope. They keep to the same line. I am on my 3rd letter to them. This time, I have said..OK, take me to court. FINAL. As I am on Carers allowance, and they have refused my offer in black and white, then the judge will most certainly throw it out of court. It looks like this is the only way for them to deal with people in my situation who cannot afford to pay back the full OD amount straight away. I am not fussed one bit, in any respects they are going to get my propsal..by hook or by crook. Stuff em.

[bigyeti]

I've not heard anything since I wrote to them on the 27 Nov. I've maintained my side of my agreement and have been paying £10 each week. Their interest rate stands at 19.5% EAR on authorised overdrafts with less than £1000 pcm going into the account, an interest rate I'm happy to pay so I think I've been more than fair

[jamraz]

hi, i have follwed this forum thread on halifax, and taken the advised necessary action, changed banks and told halifax that i do not accept their implimented terms.

 

i have requested that they consider my account to be dorment (stop charging monthly fees) and requested a monthly payment agreement to pay off my overdraft.

 

however, they have replied to this, and refused my request. They have also included a paragraph worded

"please note that no further correspondence in relation to this matter will be replied to."

 

who do i contact to sort out both the prevention of the new overdraft and account "fees" and to determine how to amicably repay the overdraft

[Bigdebtor]

They have given their "final" response - so you should now write to FOS. if nothing else it will cost HBOS £450 for the referral - plus the hassle of responding in detail to FOS.

 

BD

[coolchris]

What I have now done is asked them to take me to court. This will not happen of course and this seems to be the only way to get them to accept my monthly offer of payback..especially as I am on benefits anyways. Court is just a no, no for them as the judge would laugh them out and say why did you not accept their offer of payment. As said...seems to be the only way. But hey, they have naffed my credit rating up anyway, so Ive got nothing to lose and LOADS to gain by this method.

[bigyeti]

I've still not heard anything as yet. But they haven't charged me anything apart from the interest that was part of the original T&Cs. By charging me that interest rather than the £1 per day charge, I tentatively assume they have accepted my offer of £10 per week, which I have stuck to for five weeks so far.

[Bigdebtor]

Bigyeti

 

It will be interesting to see what charges show on your January statement - as the £1 a day only started on 6 December and may not be applied until 30 days later - and then only show up on the first statement sent out thereafter.

[Bigdebtor]

Coolchris

 

Ask them to send the original overdraft facility letter which you signed to "accept" all future T&C chnages. I bet they can't!

 

I have tried to get this via CCA and SAR - but still not sent to me.

 

BD

[coolchris]

Bigyeti..yes I had the same, and then they started the charges immediately after..1st January. So, no they wont accept anything unless the account defaults to their debt department. Then and only then will they consider any payment terms.

Bigdebtor (lol at name)...To be honest I aint bothered, they will have to accept my offer of a fiver a week. They have no choice with my income (now thats a laugh in itself).

[bigyeti]

It may seem that even though I have abided by the former T&Cs that I agreed to, and that I have informed them in no uncertain terms that i wish to close my account and pay them back the OD with the formerly agreed interest rate of 19.5% (I think), they will start piling on the charges, thus breaking the T&Cs of the contract.

 

Would it possible to take out an injunction against them to prevent them doing so?

 

Mind you, it's not even UTCCR, it's theft. Taking money without my consent.

Edited January 4, 2010 by bigyeti

[bigyeti]

I've just logged in, and there has been no charges levied so far. The balance and the available balance are both in line with my calculations. 30 days from the 6th Dec will be tomorrow.

[Bigdebtor]

They might "apply" the £30 charges tomorrow (or £31 on 6/1) but only debit the account at the end of the month.

 

BD

[indebtstudent]

"however, they have replied to this, and refused my request. They have also included a paragraph worded

"please note that no further correspondence in relation to this matter will be replied to.""

 

Just wondering to myself can they actually do this? I mean I know they ARE doing it, but can they actually get away with this? How can you tell a customer who's complaint you have not address in any way, nor made any attempt to resolve no further correspondance is replied to.

 

On the positive side you can enclose this in your complaint to the FOS as it is clearly thier final response (even though it says nothing of note).

 

I am not suggesting people go to the FOS out of spite, I believe they have a legitimate complaint, and the lack of effort by Halifax to even look at what they are saying, let alone respond proves it.

[gemmabe]

indebtstudent, they just said the exact same thing to me - unsurprisingly

 

It seems to me that Halifax are really trying their luck here. IMO they are basically saying they can change the T&C to WHATEVER THEY LIKE without asking for our approval! I am sorry, but if I had a loan, say at 10% APR, and they then increase it with very little notice to 20% APR, do I have no cause for complaint? Do I roll over and say "OK, then, sir." I think not! HOW can this be legal? Especially given the current economic climate - the fact that many more people will be further into their overdrafts with no hope of repaying in full anytime in the near future!

 

I do not want to lose the facilities my Halifax account provide however I do not feel I can sit back and let them take double the amount of money from me each month for the very same service (at a time when to me literally every penny is precious).

 

We really need to create more publicity on this matter (preferably before my brain explodes).

[bigyeti]

The bank is permitted by you to transfer money to and from the account as you instruct - withdrawals and payments, DDs and SOs etc. Included in this, sidestepping the unfairness of it for a second, the bank is permitted to take money from the account to recover debts owed to it by the account holder - bank charges, fees, interest etc. If however, you no longer agree to the terms of the account for example if they have changed, the agreement ceases and the account is closed. However, if the bank doesn't close the account and then deducts money anyway, they have gained through the abuse of position, to wit the permission to transfer money to and from the account.

 

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

4: Fraud by abuse of position

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

(b) dishonestly abuses that position, and

© intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.

 

Now, I have no legal training, but in the situation whereby you have not accepted the new T&Cs and have unequivocably expressed that you do not accept the new T&Cs, yet they still deduct the charge regardless, then I believe this is the statute to attack with.

 

This section of the Fraud Act was primarily aimed at people who are 'creaming a bit off the top for themselves' so to speak. One example cited on the CPS website was of a carer for an elderly or disabled person with access to their bank account and that carer was removing funds for their own use without consent. Now imagine if that carer said to the person, "as your carer, I'm going to start taking £1 every day as a tip." the person then replies "No, I'll find another carer", but then the carer just carries on as normal and takes the £1 a day regardless.

I believe this is exactly what the banks are doing.

 

I'd be grateful if anyone can build on/pick holes in this angle and in the meantime I'll try to find a relevant case to tie it with.

Edited January 10, 2010 by bigyeti

[surprise]

Despite having refused their new T&C's I have today received a statement showing that they have applied the new charge of £1.00 a day. I shall now be drafting yet another letter of complaint.

[mikexlr8]

Keep on, and keep everyone informed. Good luck.

[Its WAR]

Me too. They have told me my charges are £52 (£2 a day) eventhough I have refused the new terms. So I have paid in £700 to get into the £1 a day rate. And I will be telling them I will make a FOS report and let them know it will cost them £450. I fancy I should tell them its for spite and I am encoraging as many 100s of people I can tell, to do the same...... Or

should I not say this? Is it really true that each complaint costs that much? Surely the FOS will already have had 100s of these identical complaints, and dont need to investigate each one. Wouldnt they just send a template reply to each complainant?

[surprise]

FOS complaint costs £500 once they start their investigations. I already have a complaint in with the FOS since June 09. The adjudicator felt that the Halifax had done nothing wrong so its now gone to the Ombudsman.

 

The Halifax will have to pay £500 rather than pay me £63. I have stuck to my guns on this issue because Amazon applied for a payment of £47.00 which I didn't know they were going to do, Halifax authorised this payment which took me £12 over my overdraft so they charged me £63.00. I was livid. Amazon refunded the £47.00 two days later after my complaint. Halifax said that as Amazon had returned the money then they were obviously at fault and they should refund the charges. I just feel that if the Halifax had not have authorised the debit card transaction then there would have been no complaint. I also feel that Halifax have acted rather stupidly over the whole issue, why pay £500 when they could have settled for just returning my £63.00?

 

The fight goes on.

[Its WAR]

What generates the £500 fee. Is it just because we write to complain, or only if the FOS actually investigate the complaint? Do they really charge this fee? If so, I want to tell the world to complain and I especially want to tell the Halifax why I am going to get them to have to pay it. It really is spite and I want them to know.

[surprise]

The FOS have an official complaint form on their website. You can only complain to the FOS once you have gone through the Halifax complaints procedure and you get a final response from them. If you are not happy with that response then go to the FOS. Once their investigations begin they are charged £500 regardless of whether the complaint is upheld or not.

[Its WAR]

Good, so its 3 seperate complaints, sent on 3 seperate applications to FOS, one week apart, that makes £1500 charged to Halifax? I think I should let them know first and see if they soften their stance.