taking a holiday wholst off sick

[Dragnite]

Hey

 

Im a cancer patient, 2 years ago i had non hodgkins lymphoma. Recently i had been getting chest pains and shortness of breath and as such my doctor signed me off work whilst i underwent diagnosis.

In total i was off work for a little over 4 weeks. Well during this time i had a holiday booked to Corfu which had been booked since the start of the year.

 

I spoke to my Doctor regarding this and he told me it was ok for me to go and would allow me to relax a bit becuase as you can imagine when you have a possibility of a cancer returning it can be rather stressful.

 

Well after my holiday i was still awaiting test results but i felt better than i had done so i decided to return to work.

 

Now my understanding is while i am off from work for 4 weeks i am paid "company sick pay" and afterwards "statutory sick pay" meaning that i do not use up my holiday entitlement at all and in fact the 7 days i had booked off for holiday would still be there on my return to work.

 

So naturally as there arent many weeks left of the year i quickly rebooked them and was granted them by the department manager.

 

Well 2 days later (today) im called into the office and told that it is the managers discretion as to whether or not i can rebook these holidays and that his discretion is that because i went on holiday to Corfu he is going to deny me rebooking my remaining holiday days, and has cancelled the week i booked off.

 

I personally think this decision is wrong and i also believe that what i do while i am off from work on a doctors sick note has got sod all to do with them. Although out of courtesy i did actually inform them that i was going on this holiday.

 

I am also a member of the GMB union perhaps i should give them a call about it.

[ukaviator]

Once the doctor says you should not work, you are under the care of the doctor. It's up to the doctor to say what is acceptable and what is not. The company is not medically competent to dictate what is acceptable behaviour for a recuperating employee.

 

Statutory Sick Pay, SSP, is the money your employer has to pay you

when you are off work because of illness. Almost all employees who

earn £95 a week or more (from 6 April 2009) are entitled to SSP for up

to 28 weeks of sickness. Your employer is legally obliged to pay you

SSP if you qualify for it.

In addition to SSP, you may also get contractual sick pay as part of

your agreed terms and conditions of employment. Your contractual sick

pay entitlement should be included in your Written Statement of

Employment. If you had already booked holiday in that period, you should

continue to receive SSP, since this will be seen as an ongoing period

of incapacity for work.

You can get some more information here:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

Edited October 6, 2009 by ukaviator

[mariefab]

Now my understanding is while i am off from work for 4 weeks i am paid "company sick pay" and afterwards "statutory sick pay" meaning that i do not use up my holiday entitlement at all and in fact the 7 days i had booked off for holiday would still be there on my return to work.

 

Correct!

Earlier this year, a week before his booked two weeks holiday my son broke several bones in his hand.

He was signed off sick for five weeks on company sick pay. He still went on his holiday.

When he was ready to return to work his manager asked him if he would like to take the two weeks holiday at the end of his sick leave or leave them for later in the year.

 

You could give ACAS a call 08457 47 47 47

Or you could call the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368.

[MrShed]

Devils advocate entering here....

 

Whilst I do understand the legality of this, the reasoning behind this particular bit of law was because sickness can prevent activity, such as going to work, or going on holiday.

 

From a "moral" perspective, to my mind, it is cheeky at best to ask for the holiday back when you did, in fact, go on holiday. If you had taken a month off sick without the weeks holiday booked, would you then have gone and booked up and gone abroad?

 

By the way, your statement that its "sod all to do with them" is short sighted and completely incorrect - the company DO have an interest in what is done on a sick day.

 

Sorry our opinions differ - I am honestly not trolling, just personally disagree.

[Conniff]

It is your right under European Working Time Legislation that you can have your leav at another time.

 

" the judgment specifically says that if a "worker does not wish to take annual leave during a period of sick leave, annual leave must be granted to him for a different period".

 

The choice is yours.

[Bookworm]

"moral" has nothing to do with it, it's what the law says, and it is quite clear.

 

If you go sick and holiday time was booked in the time you were signed off, then it gets carried over.

 

There was in fact an ECJ decision a couple of weeks ago which goes even further:

 

Claim back holidays lost to sickness, says European Court of Justice - Telegraph.

[Bookworm]

Snap @ Conniff, lol.

[MrShed]

"moral" has nothing to do with it, it's what the law says, and it is quite clear.

 

I understand that. I was merely making the point that in the same situation, I wouldnt dream of asking for the holiday back.

 

Whilst you arent supposed to lose out because of sickness, you certainly arent supposed to gain - and the OP will have gained 7 days AL due to this process.

[Conniff]

I would say that 'moral' got married to 'respect' and they both disappeared into the sunset.

[Bookworm]

and the OP will have gained 7 days AL due to this process.

Hmmm... and the threat of cancer returning over his head + what seems to be the possible onset of angina. Not what I'd call that much of a gain, tbh.

 

From a travel point of view for anyone reading this thread, I'd also add that OP was VERY lucky he didn't get any problems whilst abroad, as it is a near on certainty his travel insurance wouldn't have covered him unless he had advised them in advance of the issues, regardless of what the doctor had said. Just a word of warning. ;-)

[MrShed]

Hmmm... and the threat of cancer returning over his head + what seems to be the possible onset of angina. Not what I'd call that much of a gain, tbh.

 

Bookie - whilst I take your point, lets not confuse the matter and get sentimental.

 

I agree with what you say, but what I am saying is that the employee is not supposed to benefit WITH THEIR TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT due to sickness.

 

Clearly here they have - they have used their sick time to perform an activity that would have otherwise required AL (and planned to useAL for).

 

Whether the employee has benefitted generally in life is quite a seperate question, and not relevant - although clearly I sympathise with the person involved.

[Bookworm]

But you opened that door by confusing the legal with the moral!

 

The employment terms have to comply with employment law. The law says that sickness which starts before a period of AL is due means that the AL is carried over. End of. The employers have no right to "use their discretion" to decide whether employee should get his AL carried over or not. THAT's the long and short of it.

 

My husband is currently in the same situation, with a hernia op he had to have 3 weeks before his AL was due (and caused by his work, to add insult to injury). He's been stuck at home, we haven't been able to get away as he was recuperating while the kids were still off school and were stuck indoors throughout. Damn right, he's getting his 2 weeks off AL back so that hopefully we can actually do something with the kids then.

 

Whether OP benefitted or not is irrelevant. His GP deemed him unfit for work, how he used the time when he was signed off is nothing to do with employer (unless he was faking it and was abseiling or fixing a barn in his absence in which case I could understand, but we're entering the domain of fraud here and that's a different story). Entering a supposed moral element doesn't help with the request for advice.

[Dragnite]

@ Mrshed this holiday was booked 6 months prior to me becoming ill, all paid for and had i have cancelled it i would have been £600 out of pocket. I dont think its cheeky to ask for it back because i was never actually paid holiday pay for it in the first place. During that week i recieved SSP which is paid by the government ergo the company had no monetary loss due to it.

The sick not is there to state i am unfit to work not unfit to go on holiday. I checkec with the doctor and informed my holiday insurance company. I also out of courtesy rang my boss and informed him of the holiday.

I do understand your point of view but i do not agree with it.

 

 

@ everyone else thankyou for your thoughts and advice, i can see today is going to be a very interesting day at work

[dx100uk]

thread tidied and closed

 

dx