difficult landlady not returning unprotected deposit

[Adversity]

I am aware of other such cases on here but feel it would be worth documenting mine from hereon in, as ive had such a rediculous problem with my LL! and need encouragement as well as help because its proving a massive distraction.

 

I moved out of my shared rented property 2 weeks ago after 12 troublesome months. major repair issues with the house were not addressed some of which were effecting our health (stagnant water running into the kitchen from a draincover that had been concreted over before we moved in).

 

this was nowhere near the end of our problems. 4 days after moving out, the estate agent forwarded an email to the landlady and CarbonCopied in myself and the other 2 tennants, saying shed conducted a moving out inspection and the house was fine and no deductions needed to be made from our deposit.

 

another week passed and we didnt recieve any more communication from the LL or estate agent. when i rang the landlady she gave me a barrage of abuse over the telephone and told me to stop harassing her by ringing her and emailing her (despite me sending 1 email and that being my only phone call in over a month) she told me she wasnt happy with the estate agents report and said she was demanding another report - despite this surely being impossible because new tennants had moved in she ended the phonecall calling me a "f***ing lunatic" and slammed down the phone.

 

after researching, and realising i never received details of any Deposit protection agency, i contacted all 3 who confirmed our deposit wasnt protected. on finding this, i sent the LL a letter detailing this and warning we would sue her if she didnt return it in full in 7 days. today i had an email response from her basically saying "im happy to go to court. your wrong, the deposit was protected, it hasnt been released because im still waiting for a second report."

 

i emailed a reply stating that my issue wasnt that the moving out report was the problem, but that our deposit wasnt protected and for the second time told her about my correspondance with the three DP Agencies, each of whom dont hold our deposit, again threatening legal action. ive not had a reply.

 

as im aware, the next stage is court action. the LLs attitude regarding this is desgusting and its obvious she doesnt want to return the money. im dreading each reply. its effecting me now at work and my personal life, and court action will only make it worse, especially if she continues to be difficult. i simply do not have the time to be dealing with this but need the money back and will follow through simply on principle now.

 

my issue is this, why has she said shes happy to go to court, and why does she keep demanding that the deposit was protected - despite her never supplying proof,and each of the 3 schemes proving otherwise. is she bluffing? because if it does go to court then surely its an open shut case! i have written confirmation that the money isnt protected. how can she defend against that? also all this business with a second report is stalling things past 2 weeks now, i cant see how she can even ask for a second report 15 days after weve moved out and new tennants have moved in?!

 

her actions are really confusing me

Edited January 11, 2010 by Adversity

[MrShed]

Shes said that because she is ignorant of the law - pure and simple.

 

It doesnt matter anyway even if it IS protected - she never gave you formal notification of protection.

 

Good luck!

[Adversity]

thanks, im aware that not even providing the prescribed information is a breach of the law and have informed her of this.

 

whats unbelievable here, is she claims to be a solicitor! and is fully aware of the rules and regulations of the deposit protection schemes because she changed estate agents midway through our contract because she claimed the previous one hadnt protected our money. she demanded we write to our 1st estate agent demanding the deposit was transferred to the 2nd agent, and that they would take full control of the house. not really knowing at the time, we did this, and the 1st estate agent even provided us a photocopy of the cheque. which is now usefull in proving she holds the money. but this also proves that she knows about the schemes! what is she playing at?!

Edited October 5, 2009 by Adversity

[Kentish Lass]

She is ignorant, and is hoping that you are also. Big mistake.

 

You have already done your LBA (Letter before Action) so just go for the court action. She obviously thinks you are not serious about this.

 

You could, if you are still uncertain about court action, complete the form and send her a further LBA (posted from Post Office and obtain a certificate of posting (free)) with a copy of the completed form attached.

 

If not, then no phone calls, no emails, and no arguments.

 

You need to use Form N208 Part 8 for the claim - see link below for details.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/d...pplication.doc

 

Don't feel intimidated by the prospect of going to court. Hopefully, it won't get that far, but if it does you will find the courts much less frightening than you might think!

[Adversity]

thankyou very much kentish lass, your help is much appreciated. i had another email today, ignoring my question asking for details of the DPS and diverting atention onto the delay getting a second report from the estate agent, she also says she has "called back the deposit". i replied simply stating if she cant provide details we will persue legal action. to which her response was "as you wish". as you suggested, we will not attempt any more communication and i guess i need to get to work on the form.

[Adversity]

i submitted my n208 claim today and paid the £150 fee, which is annoying of course, as this proceedure wouldve been free if the deposit was in a scheme etc...youve read it all before on here

 

my question is this: what happens if my landlady pays back the deposit in the next few weeks? if i recieve a cheque or bank transfer what do i do? obviously notify the court, but does that mean ive lost the £150?

 

it seems like there have suddenly been a lot more cases posted on this forum of landlords not protecting deposits and it seems to be an increasing problem, what if anything are the government doing to enforce the DPS law? it seems like landlords are getting away with murder!

[MrShed]

Its simple to my mind - if she does return the deposit, you proceed to sue for the court costs!

[Adversity]

So 11 days passed after my claim went in, and out of the blue my ex LL emailed me basically saying there had been a hold up with paying back the deposit because the 3 tennants paid it individually ( not true as I have a photocopy of a cheque showing it was paid as one amount) and now she claims she's only waiting for confirmation from all 3 of us and shell return the deposit immediately. It then goes on to say that my court claim is wrong, as she for the 100th time insists the deposit was registered with x-associates (I won't give the name but you get the idea) even though x-associates aren't one of the 3 government schemes so they aren't a legal scheme. She then says she doesn't understand how I can claimthe deposit and 3x the amount...suggesting she actually knows nothing aboutthe DPS penalty advice.

 

Needless to say I haven't replied, nor do I intend to acceptany payment from her, but am I in any way obliged to negotiate at this stage? I'm more than happy to go to court in December because I firmly believe we have a solid case and this desperate attempt to settle is far to late, and a show of her despiration while losing the battle. Do I need to tell her that I'm past willing to negotiate?

Edited November 10, 2009 by Adversity

[MrShed]

You should negotiate - it will not look good if you do not in court.

 

I would write back and advise her that this should be repayed to the payee, the scheme is not a registered scheme.

 

State that you will accept the full return of the deposit, plus your court fee, to settle, within 10 days.

[Adversity]

Ok I'll consider that, to be honest I feel agrieved to enter negotiations because I tried SO hard for 7 weeks to settle this before taking it to court and her attitude was always "fine, sue me I don't care, I'm not paying you" and I remained patient and calm even while she resorted to abusing me verbally.now I've entered the claim she's suddenly being cooperative. Without sounding greedy, I don't feel just the return of the deposit makes up for the time I've spent on this and the stress it's caused. If I settle, then she's basically got away with it

[MrShed]

Ok I'll consider that, to be honest I feel agrieved to enter negotiations because I tried SO hard for 7 weeks to settle this before taking it to court and her attitude was always "fine, sue me I don't care, I'm not paying you" and I remained patient and calm even while she resorted to abusing me verbally.now I've entered the claim she's suddenly being cooperative. Without sounding greedy, I don't feel just the return of the deposit makes up for the time I've spent on this and the stress it's caused. If I settle, then she's basically got away with it

 

 

I know what you mean, but bear in mind that there is no ability to claim damages for aggravation in court.

 

If you do not respond to a negotiation attempt, it WILL reflect badly on you should it come to court.

[Adversity]

ok thanks for your help, im gonna ask for the deposit and the court fees back as well, are there any other ways i could bump up my settlement request?

[MrShed]

I would say no, and I would also say its a dangerous game to try at this stage.

[Adversity]

im really sorry to keep bouncing this issue back at you mr shed but...

 

“Section 214” application to the county court

 

1. The application under section 214 can only be made on limited grounds. If the court is satisfied that those grounds have been met, the court must either order the repayment of the deposit or order the person who appears to be holding the deposit to pay it into a designated account under a authorised custodial tenancy deposit scheme. The court must also order the landlord to pay a sum of money equal to three times the amount of the deposit."
   

this suggests that once proceedings under the n208 form have started, there is no leway on the matter. the landlord must be forced to pay the compensation whether they like it or not.

 

i really dont believe i should settle for an amout far less than what im entitled to, and what i would surely recieve at the court hearing. it doesnt mention anywhere in the tennancy deposit protection document that the claim would be dropped if the defendant repays the deposit only as a settlement.

[Adversity]

ive also just read back through this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/residential-commercial-lettings/117280-tenancy-deposit-scheme-4.html in which a lot of people argue the same case as me, that section 214 is in force to make the landlord pay the 3x compensation regardless of whether they protect at a later date/return the deposit - as a response to them braking the law.

 

all leaves me with a bit of a headache as to whether i reply to her email and what id say :S

[NewSAHD]

Few, if any, of us here are lawyers, perhaps, although most of the regular posters doubtless will have had some Court experience.

 

I believe MrShed is quite correct when he/she () says "If you do not respond to a negotiation attempt, it WILL reflect badly on you should it come to court."

 

Attendance at Court has to be viewed as your last resort when all other attempts to negotiate / settle have failed.

 

MrShed is also right about playing a "dangerous game". If you've been reasonable so far (and can also be seen to have been reasonable, which is a little different) then matters should work out for you in the end. No guarantees, of course, but as frustrating as it clearly is, don't fall in to the trap of becoming "like them / like your landlord".

 

For what it's worth, hope that helps settle matters a bit in your mind.

[Adversity]

ok thanks, i appreciate any time taken to offer advice, and im sure it comes with the best intentions. it looks like im gonna have to seek proper legal advice on this matter so i dont implicate myself in anyway, as you can probably tell my ex LL is relentlessly deviant and cunning, and her response to my claim form was just insulting, she made out that i was making it all up despite the hard evidence being right infront of her. i am aware that it could well be the case that shes trying to provoke me into saying or doing something that will jeapordise the case.

 

i just find it hard to swallow that if she returns the deposit, all the time, effort and money ive spent putting all this together will be in vain and shell get away with having broke the law. to repeat an analogy i spotted in that thread, if i stole a mars bar from my corner shop and then returned it after they threatened me with legal action, i dont think id get away with it. its quite a frustrating and sad way to conclude this

[MrShed]

that once proceedings under the n208 form have started, there is no leway on the matter. the landlord must be forced to pay the compensation whether they like it or not.

 

That appears to be a stretch Adv - it says to me that once the issue reaches COURT that they will be forced to pay compensation.

 

If the deposit is returned before this time, I dont see any entitlement to the compensation.

 

I do however understand the frustration.

[laprice26]

Hello, sorry to butt in, I just thought since I was in pretty much the exact same position, I'd just add my experience if you've not seen already.

 

A week before I went to court, (LL had been ignoring my emails, asking for which scheme used even though I had proof none were used etc) the LL sent me a cheque for the deposit back in the post. There was no letter, nothing bar the cheque.

 

I merely didn't cash it, nor acknowledge this with the LL. Therefore when I went to court, the Judge asked me why i hadn't accepted it, and I explained then that I was £150 down in court fees, so wasn't willing to accept.

 

It's a tricky one, however I just ignored the cheque, and took it to court with me. My argument was if they didn't return it in the 1st instance when they should have done, I didn't see why I should settle for it back when they are panicking because they have broke the law. Also, I had tried several times to point out they had broke the law and would simply accept my deposit back - again ignored. So I felt they only deserved so many chances, which sadly for them, had ran out by the time I mustered the courage to go to Court!

 

Very tricky! Good luck x

[MrShed]

What was the outcome in court....?

[laprice26]

I won the deposit back, 3 x deposit + court fees & interest x

[MrShed]

Adv - I think I need to rescind my comments above - I think I must have been having a blonde moment.

 

I actually think you are correct - as the deposit has not been protected, and cannot now be protected, you are entitled to the 3 x deposit fine.

 

I was getting confused with if the deposit is PROTECTED prior to court date, not RETURNED.

 

That said, personally I would settle for the deposit return + court fee.

 

Apologies for my confusion!

[Adversity]

Thanks it's good to hear that there are examples of this happening,had I not asked on here I have not been told by the court or anyone else to try and further speak to her, so I wouldve ignored her email. I would emphasize with evidence in court that I made probably 10 or more requests to settle it before court and each time she eithe came back with a nonsence excuse or simply said "take me to court then" the judge can't say I haven't tried!

[Adversity]

Mrshed, your retraction is music to my ears! I would under normal circumstances settle for just th deposit and court fee, but wihout sounding vindictive- she has been SO rude and unhelpfull through all this I don't believe she would pay any out of court settlement amount anyway.

[Adversity]

i rang the court today after not receiving any defense from the landlady in the post before the deadline, according to them she hasn't submitted one! stupidity on her part or has she got a trick up her sleeve?