Lease car problem - HELP!

[ncf355]

Hi all,

 

 

situation so far:

 

Leased a car for 1 year, with £250 deposit - this car went back and had another on short term

 

2nd car was 1 year old and had damage - just minor scuffs and dents

 

I signed an 'on hire' sheet for this with the damage marked.

 

2nd car subsequently blew up 2 days before going off hire - did not get chance to do a hand over (didnt sign one) as it went to main dealer for repair under warranty.

 

6 weeks later I emailed to ask where my deposit was?

 

Reply -

 

Due to the damage caused to the 2nd vehicle there would be no refund

 

 

 

Now, this riled me as I knew very well no such damage had been caused so I emailed stating I denied this claim and still wanted the £250 back

 

 

No reply was forthcoming after a week, so I got even more riled and sent an LBA giving them 14 days to refund bfore I proceeded with a small claim

 

 

Today, I came home from work to a bill for several hundred for damage on the 2nd car and several hundred for damage to the 1st car (bearing in mind that damage to the 1st car hadnt been mentioned to this point)

 

Interestingly, the minor damage area claimed on the first car was something I have an invoice for repairing 2 days before the car was returned to them (would no doubt be fun in court)

 

 

So................

 

 

Where do I go from here?

 

Do I proceed with my claim?

 

Is the onus on them to prove I caused the damage as I did not sign an 'off hire' sheet?

 

I do not want to back down as I feel they are trying to screw me but I need to know I'm on the right side of the law?

 

Please HELP!

 

Thanks

 

[ncf355]

Hi all,

 

could somebody with some legal know how take a look at this for me, it's been in the vehicle section for a few weeks but I've been unable to get any attention on it...........

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/vehicle-retailers-manufacturers/23115-lease-car-problem-help.html

 

Thanks for your help!

[JonCris]

Without knowing the T&C's of what you signed it's difficult & may explain why no one has yet responded.

 

Can you post some of the salient T&C's?

[ncf355]

Hi,

 

I was asked to place the T and C's here for perusal to enable someone to help, here they are:

 

 

1. Definitions

1.1 In this agreement:

1.1.1 “Vehicle” means the vehicle described overleaf or any other motor which which may be substituted for that

vehicle under the terms of this agreement, including all and any component parts (whether original or

replacement) and accessories.

1.1.2 “Period of Hire” means the period of hire shown overleaf, subject to the terms of this agreement which provide

for earlier termination.

1.1.3 “Rentals” means the rentals shown overleaf, including the initial rental.

1.1.4 “Excess Mileage Charge” and “Additional Excess Mileage Charge” mean the excess mileage charge and

additional excess mileage charge set out overleaf.

1.1.5 “Total Contract Mileage” means the total contract mileage shown overleaf.

1.1.6 “month” means calendar month save that any period of less than a month shall be treated as a fraction of a

month calculated by dividing the number of days in the period by 30.

 

2. The hiring; payments; delivery of the Vehicle

2.1 We agree to hire and you agree to take on hire the Vehicle on the terms of this agreement. The hiring will start on the

date upon which the Vehicle is delivered to you.

2.2 You will pay us punctually by standing order or credit/debit card, unless you have a credit account with us, at the times

stated in this agreement together with value added tax:

2.2.1 any delivery charges (if applicable) the rentals; and

2.2.2 any Excess Mileage Charge and any Additional Excess Mileage Charge calculated in accordance with the

provisions set out overleaf; and

2.2.3 my other sum payable by you to us under this agreement.

2.3 In the event that the rate of value added tax changes during the Period of Hire the gross rentals will be adjusted

accordingly.

2.4 Time of payment is of the essence of this agreement.

2.5 It is a condition of this agreement that all payments due from you to us shall be made by standing order or credit/debit

card. If you cancel your standing order or credit/debit cud authority we may, elect to treat you as having repudiated

this agreement or may charge you an additional administration charge of £25 + VAT in respect of each payment due

under this agreement which is not made by standing order or credit/debit card on the due date.

2.6 You will accept delivery of the Vehicle only if it is in accordance with your ordered specification and in good

condition. If you are not satisfied with the specification or condition of the Vehicle you must notify us in writing within

4 hours of the delivery of the Vehicle to you. In default of such notice:

2.6.1 you will be deemed to have accepted the Vehicle; and

2.6.2 the Vehicle will conclusively be presumed to have been in accordance with your ordered specification and in

good condition at the time at which it was delivered to you, save only as regards any defects in the Vehicle

which are covered by the manufacturer’s warranty

 

3. Care of the Vehicle

3.1 You will be responsible for any loss, theft, destruction of or damage to the Vehicle from the date of delivery until it is

returned to or recovered by us even if it is not your fault.

3.2 You and any other person permitted by you to use the Vehicle will at all times use the Vehicle in a careful and proper

manner.

3.3 You will permit us to inspect the Vehicle upon request and you will ensure that we have a right of access to the Vehicle

for the purpose of inspecting or recovering the Vehicle. You will tell us immediately if you change your address or

the address at which the vehicle is normally kept.

3.4 You will not use or let anyone else use the Vehicle illegally or for any unlawful purpose or in any competition or motor

sport. You will not overload the Vehicle or allow it to be driven by anyone who does not hold a full driving license.

You will not, without our prior written consent, use the vehicle regularly on any unmade roads, building site, farm

lands, wood land, moor land, mountain tracks or any other rough ground.

3.5 You will not permit or allow the Vehicle to be used in contravention of my statute or my other rules, regulations or

orders.

3.6 You will slow down and stop as soon a it is safe to do so should my warning light or device operate indicating that

them is a problem with the Vehicle. If you breach this provision you will be considered negligent and you will be

liable to pay for my necessary repairs to the Vehicle.

3.7 You will pay my parking fine or other fixed penalty relating to the Vehicle immediately. If you fail to do so, in order

to mitigate our losses and avoid the incursion of additional penalties, we may pay the amount of the fine or penalty

for you and you will repay that amount to us on demand together with the sum of £25 plus VAT to cover our

administration costs.

3.8 You will not make any alterations to the Vehicle without our prior written consent unless you are obliged to do so by

law.

3.9 Nothing shall be mounted on the interior or exterior of the Vehicle so as to cause my permanent damage to the Vehicle

(e.g. mobile telephones and telephone aerials).

3.10 Any accessories fitted to the Vehicle prior to delivery are our property and must be in full working order when the

vehicle is returned to or recovered by us. Any replacement parts fitted during the Period of Hire will become our

property and subject to this agreement.

3.11 You will not mortgage, charge, pledge, assign, underlet or lend the Vehicle nor mortgage, charge, or assign your

interest under this agreement.

3.12 In the event that any person levies or attempts to levy distress or execution upon the Vehicle you will:

3.12.1 immediately inform any such person that the Vehicle is our property and does not belong to you; and

3.12.2 immediately inform us of the fact of such distress or execution and of such of the surrounding

circumstances as we may reasonably request.

3.13 You will keep the Vehicle in good condition and repair and you will notify us immediately of any mechanical defect

or damage to the Vehicle.

3.14 You will be responsible at your own cost for:

3.14.1 arranging for the servicing of the Vehicle at the intervals recommended by the manufacturer by taking it at your

own expense to a dealer previously approved by us and as soon as the work has been completed previously

collecting the Vehicle from that dealer and ensuring that the Vehicle service record has been stamped by them.

Should you fail to collect the Vehicle when it is ready and we incur any costs because of this, these will be

charged to you; and

3.14.2 providing the Vehicle on a day to day basis with the correct types and amounts of fuel, oil, lubricants, water

and additives; and

3.14.3 maintaining the Vehicle on a day to day basis in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations; and

3.14.4 checking the tyres regularly to ensure that they comply with my legal requirement and are in good condition

and where necessary having them repaired/replaced with tyres which comply with the manufacturer’s

recommendations and

3.14.5 subject to the provisions of clause 4 below relating to insurance, having any necessary repairs and maintenance

to the Vehicle carried out promptly by a dealer approved by us; and

 

4 Insurance

4.1 You will at all times until the Vehicle is returned to or recovered by us insure and keep insured the Vehicle under a

fully comprehensively policy against loss or damage (including frost damage and shattered windscreens) to its full

replacement value, free from limitation or excess, with insurers approved by us (such approval not to be unreasonably

withheld), such policy to bear an endorsement recording our interest in the Vehicle.

4.2 You will notify us promptly of any loss or damage to the Vehicle, lodge an insurance claim promptly and hold any

insurance money on trust for us . You irrevocable authorise us to collect the insurance money from the insurer if a

claim is nude against the insurers we may, at our discretion, conduct negotiations and effect a settlement with the

insurers and you will be bound by any such settlement

4.3 Any insurance money will be applied as follows at our option

4.3.1 in making good the damage at a repairer approved by us; or

4.3.2 in replacing the Vehicle with another similar vehicle to which the terms of this agreement will apply; and/or

4.3.3 in compensating us for all and any loss suffered by us by reason of the loss or damage to the Vehicle; and/or

4.3.4 in discharging any arrears of Rentals or any other monies due from you to us under this agreement, together

with interest thereon under the terms of this agreement, any surplus being paid to, and any deficiency made up

by, you provided that the loss of or damage to the Vehicle shall not affect the continuance of this agreement or

your liability to pay Rentals.

4.4 You will not do, or suffer to be done, anything which may make void or voidable any insurance effected under clause

4.1 above and you will punctually pay all premiums in respect of that insurance and furnish to us on request a copy

of the policy and the receipt for the current premium.

4.5 You will indemnify us against any loss caused by:

4.5.1 your failure to in sure the Vehicle in accordance with clause 4.1 above; or

4.5.2 your failure to comply with your obligations under clause 4.2 or clause 4.4 above; or

4.5.3 the repudiation by the insurers of my claim or any reason.

4.6 In the event that the Vehicle is declared a total loss we may, at our option, terminate this agreement.

4.7 In the event that the Vehicle is damaged and is not repaired by the end of the Period of Hire you will be liable to pay

us an additional monthly rental for each month or part month thereafter until either, (i) the Vehicle is repaired or (ii)

the insurance money and my money due from you to us under clause 4.3 and/or clause 4.5 above is paid to us.

 

5. Bankruptcy; repudiation; default and termination

5.1 You will not present, or suffer to be presented, any application for an, interim order or petition for a bankruptcy order

or winding-up order within the meaning of the Insolvency Act 1986, not enter into or, attempt to enter into a

composition with your creditors, nor call or suffer to be called, a meeting whether formal or informal of your creditors

or any of them.

5.2 You will be treated as having repudiated this agreement if you:

5.2.1 fail to pay my Rental or other sum due under this agreement on time; or

5.2.2 cancel your standing order authority; or

5.2.3 break clause 3.4, 3.11, 4.1 or 5. 1; or

5.2.4 break any other term of this agreement and fail to put it right within 14 days of receipt of a written notice from

us.

5.3 If you are treated as having repudiated this agreement then we may terminate this agreement in which event:

5.3.1 this agreement and the hiring constituted by it will end and you will no longer have our consent to remain in

possession of the Vehicle; and

5.3.2 you will be liable to pay us in addition to any arrears of Rentals, my Excess Mileage Charge and any Additional

Excess Mileage Charge, and any other monies due to us under this agreement, agreed liquidated damages equal

to 1 monthly rental if the unexpired term of this agreement is less than 12 months or 2 monthly rentals if the

expired term of this agreement is 12 months or more.

 

6. Expiry of Period of Hire; return of the Vehicle; costs of recovery and repair

6.1 Upon the expiry of the Period of Hire or the earlier termination of this agreement you will return the Vehicle to us, in

good condition, cleaned inside and out, together with the Vehicle service record and the manufacturers handbook (if

supplied), at any of our premises in mainland Great Britain during normal working hours.

6.2 In default of the Vehicle being returned by you under clause 6.1 above:

6.2.1 you will no longer be in possession of the Vehicle with our consent and maybe the subject of civil or criminal

proceedings; and

6.2.2 you will indemnify us against our costs of tracing and recovering the Vehicle; and

6.2.3 you will be liable to pay us by way of liquidated damages an additional monthly rental for each month or part

month until we recover possession of the Vehicle.

6.3 If when the Vehicle is returned by you or recovered by us it is not in our opinion adequately cleaned inside and out

we shall be entitled to recover from you a sum of £25 + VAT to cover our costs of cleaning the Vehicle.

6.4 If when the Vehicle is returned by you or recovered by us it is damaged or unroadworthy or in a condition which is

not consistent with the performance by you of your obligations under this agreement, you will indemnify us against

our costs of servicing, providing replacement parts and carrying out any repairs which are needed to put the Vehicle

in good condition. “Good Condition” will mean a condition consistent with the age and mileage of the Vehicle. Minor

stone chips and superficial damage will not be the subject of repair. Body dents, accident repair which has not been

correctly carried out, and cigarette burns, tears, rips and cuts in the upholstery, carpets and headlining will be repaired.

Any dispute between you and us over the condition of the Vehicle which cannot be resolved by negotiation will be

referred to the Automobile Association or an equivalent organisation to appoint an assessor who will act as expert to

settle the cost of repair. You will pay for their assessment but we will reimburse you if the dispute is resolved in your

favour.

6.5 We will be entitled to deduct from your deposit any monies which due from you to us under the terms of this

agreement and to treat your deposit as part-payment of any such monies.

6.6 Subject to clause 6.5 above, we will return the deposit to you 14 days after the date on which the Vehicle is back in

our possession following the expiry of the Period of Hire, less any deduction as provided for in 6.5.

 

7. Conditions and warranties

7.1 On request and on mutually agreed terms we will transfer to you so far as possible the benefit of any manufacturer’s

and supplier’s express warranties given to us relating to the fitness and performance of the Vehicle.

7.2 If you make this contract in the course of a business or hold yourself out as so doing, then:

7.2.1 the Vehicle is not let by us with the benefit of or subject to my condition, warranty, term, or representation,

express or implied, relating to the Vehicle, all of which are excluded between us and you save those implied

by section 7 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (relating to our right to transfer possession of the

Vehicle to you and your right to quiet possession of it); and

7.2.2 we shall not in any event be liable to you for any loss of profit or other consequential loss incurred by you.

7.3 If in making this agreement you deal as a consumer within the of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 then the Vehicle

is not let by us with the benefit of or subject to my warranty, term, or representation relating to the Vehicle, express

or implied, all of which are excluded between us and you save for those which are implied by law (e.g by the Supply

of Goods and Services Act 1982).

 

8. Provisions relating to mileage

8.1 You will on request notify us of the mileage recorded on the mileometer of the Vehicle.

8.2 If at any point during the Period of Hire the mileometer fitted to the Vehicle fails to work properly, you will notify us

of the date of failure and the recorded mileage on that date and of the date on which a repaired or replacement

mileometer is fitted to the Vehicle.

8.3 We will estimate your mileage during the period of failure referred to in clause 8.2 above by:

8.3. 1 dividing the recorded mileage at the date of failure plus any estimates of mileage calculated prior to that date

by the number of days from the date of delivery of the Vehicle up to the date of failure and

8.3.2 multiplying the result by the number of days during which the mileometer was not working properly.

8.4 For the purpose of calculating any Excess Mileage Charge and any Additional Excess Mileage Charge in accordance

with the provisions set out overleaf the total mileage travelled by the vehicle during the Period of Hire shall include

any estimates of mileage calculated in accordance with clause 8.3 above which shall be deemed to be the actual

mileage travelled by the Vehicle in the period(s) during which the mileometer was not working properly.

8.5 You may not, without our prior written consent, exceed the Total Contract Mileage.

8.6 If you exceed the Total Contract Mileage we may:

8.6.1 revise the rentals to a figure specified by us and calculated to compensate us for the excess mileage; and/or

8.6.2 reduce the period of hire; or we may terminate this agreement.

8.7 If we exercise our rights under clause 8.6 above we may charge you an you an administration fee of £25 +VAT.

 

9. General

9.1 You warrant that all information provided by you in connection with this agreement is accurate.

9.2 If you fail to pay any sum due to us under this agreement on time we may charge you daily interest on that sum at the

rate of 5% above the base rate of Barclays Bank from time to time. Interest will be charged from the date for payment

until actual payment. This provision will apply both before and after any court judgement we may obtain against you

and will survive and apply after termination.

9.3 Any notice required under this agreement will be properly served only if given in writing and sent by facsimile or

prepaid letter post or delivered by hand to the addresses shown overleaf or to the last known address of the addressee.

Notice will be effected at the time of sending if sent by facsimile, 72 hours after posting if sent by prepaid letter post

and at the time of delivery if delivered by hand.

9.4 If you are more than one person your obligations will be binding on each person separately and all persons jointly.

9.5 Our rights under this agreement will not be affected by any forbearance or concession made by us to you.

9.6 You will indemnify us against any claims (including claims by your employees) in respect of loss, injury, or damage

sustained as a result of your use of the Vehicle.

9.7 In negotiations for this agreement only persons expressly authorised in writing by us have had authority to act as our

agents. All terms agreed between us (except terms implied by law) are set out in this agreement which forms the entire

agreement between you and us.

9.8 In the event of an accident arising out of the use of the Vehicle involving a third party you will use your best

endeavours to provide us with the name and address of the third party.

9.9 We reserve the right to substitute for the Vehicle another vehicle of similar (or better) age, make, model and condition.

In the event that we exercise our rights under this clause the terms of this agreement shall apply to the substitute

vehicle and the mileage covered by the Vehicle for the purposes of calculating any Excess Mileage Charge or

Additional Excess Mileage charge shall include the mileage covered by the substitute vehicle.

9.10 We shall be entitled to terminate this agreement at any time upon 14 days notice in writing to you.

9.11 For the purposes of UK taxation and irrespective of the accounting treatment to be adopted by you, you are not

entitled to claim capital allowances on the Vehicle.

9.12 Clause headings are inserted for convenience and shall not affect the interpretation of this agreement.

[ncf355]

Hi,

 

as requested I have now placed the companys T & C's on the page, if someone could take a glance for me?

 

Thanks!

[artoo]

If you claim against them they will counterclaim for the "damage" they are accusing you of. In both cases the burden of proff is on them to prove that you caused any damage to the cars, and from what you say it sounds like they will fail.

[ncf355]

Hi,

 

thanks for that, thats the way I thought it would go

 

Guess it's time to hit Moneyclaim then! (I have sent them several letters and the only response I've had is Invoices - I have also asked them for proof of the repairs all to no avail)

 

I believe they have pulled this stunt on many people, but they have picked the wrong one with me