County Court Claim by Housing Management Company,

[BlurredFX]

Cheers Baz,

 

I will get on with that now! Thanks for your help. How are you gettting on with your lot? Is there a thread I can subscribe to?

 

Will post a draft asap.

 

FX

[bazaar]

Hi BFX,

my thread is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/211098-will-cpr-help-getting.html

 

They have until middle of the month roughly to respond, Its been awfully quiet from them since I sent my CPR request. But I'm expecting a DCA to loom out of the woodwork.

[bazaar]

Have a read up also on the supply of goods and services act here:

Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 Fact Sheet - BIS

 

For us both, as long as there are no goods, then the supply of services is our avenue.

Supply of goods expressly omits any contract by deed ( such as deed of covenant).

But the supply of services doesnt as far as I can see.

[BlurredFX]

you can ask for the court to order the other side to disclose documents within the defence.

 

And all this goes on a N244? Is that correct?

[bazaar]

I think you could put the relevant detail in your defence, this wont cost you the N244 fees. The N244 is to get an order from the court to force the other side to produce.

Something like a holding defence until you receive the documents requested via your CPR request may suit you better. You'll add in that you request to amend your defence when the documents are received by you.

lets highlight the thread to see the best approach.

[bazaar]

Something like this I have shamelessly lifted from another thread, but its pretty generic. Youd just need to adjust it to suit your case

In the xxx County Court

Claim number xxxx

Between

xxxxxxxxxxx- Claimant

 

and

 

- Defendant

 

 

 

DEFENCE

 

 

1) The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered. I have made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the Claimant to allow me to properly respond to the claim. The Claimant has failed to respond to the Part 31 request.

 

2) It is Not admitted that I signed any agreement with XXXX . If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

3) It is averred that if any agreement did exist that the aforesaid agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act. As I do not have a copy of the said agreement the Claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreement was properly executed and has been enforceable at all times since its’ inception.

 

4) I have no knowledge of the service of a default notice. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the content and service of any such alleged default notice.

5) Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sum claimed is lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sum claimed is contractually owing.

 

6) Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with the CPR Part 31 request it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed.

 

7) In view of the above, it is denied that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

 

Signed

 

xxxxxxx

Defendant

[42man]

Some good help given here by Bazaar...I don't think the team have any specific experience on this but you might like to try this forum also - Residential and Commercial Lettings - The Consumer Forums

[BlurredFX]

Something like this I have shamelessly lifted from another thread, but its pretty generic. Youd just need to adjust it to suit your case

No shame in that, surely that's the point of the Forums!!!???!?

 

The letter went a couple of days ago, I just put the names in and removed the reference to the CCA 1974, and changed CPR 31 to CPR 18.

 

Hopefully this will see the County Court Claim off, or at least see if they have got any documents!

 

What is the next step? Wait for the Court?

 

Cheers folks,

 

 

FX:-)

[andydd]

No shame in that, surely that's the point of the Forums!!!???!?

 

The letter went a couple of days ago, I just put the names in and removed the reference to the CCA 1974, and changed CPR 31 to CPR 18.

 

Hopefully this will see the County Court Claim off, or at least see if they have got any documents!

 

What is the next step? Wait for the Court?

 

Cheers folks,

 

 

FX:-)

 

If its regarding long leasehold service charges then a county court passes it over to a LVT court, they then make the decision (I believe that they request that both parties hand over the relevant documents, if they are not forthcoming, the LVT may end it there), if not the LVT will make the decsion with reference to Landlord & Tenant and Commonhold statutes and then it get passed back to the county court, the LVT has no actual powers to force payment from the parties, this can only be done by the county court.

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Andy/Baz/42Man and anyone who I have missed,

 

Thanks for you help and support, this site is fab!

 

With regard to the above: The long term lease is held by a company completely uninvolved in this. I pay a token (well, £150pa) ground rent to them, but it has nothing to do with them at all.

 

The Management company is owned by us (the leaseholders), and we appoint a company to manage the communal areas etc. It is that company that has unilaterally elected to take me to Court, on behalf of the company in which I am a shareholder. The Director of our company obviously disapproves, but is very very reluctant to get involved - and given his wife's ill health and his own struggling business, forcing his hand is going to have to be a last resort.

 

Given the above, would it go to the LVT, or stay within the County Court?

 

FX ;-)

Edited September 17, 2009 by BlurredFX
Better punctuation, clarify my point

[andydd]

Andy/Baz/42Man and anyone who I have missed,

 

Thanks for you help and support, this site is fab!

 

With regard to the above: The long term lease is held by a company completely uninvolved in this. I pay a token (well, £150pa) ground rent to them, but it has nothing to do with them at all.

 

The Management company is owned by us (the leaseholders), and we appoint a company to manage the communal areas etc. It is that company that has unilaterally elected to take me to Court, on behalf of the company in which I am a shareholder. The Director of our company obviously disapproves, but is very very reluctant to get involved - and given his wife's ill health and his own struggling business, forcing his hand is going to have to be a last resort.

 

Given the above, would it go to the LVT, or stay within the County Court?

 

FX ;-)

 

I think that an LVT wouldnt be involved, I'm sure that is when the landlord appoints a management company, I assume you operate via an RTM or RTE company ?

 

The landlord & tenant act would prob shine more light on it if you can be bothered to read through.

 

Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (c. 70)

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

assume you operate via an RTM or RTE company ?

 

I have no idea!!! What does RTM and RTE stand for? Could you shed some light please?

 

Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 is proving to be of interest! Many thanks, I will keep you all posted.

 

Thnaks once more

 

FX:D

[andydd]

I have no idea!!! What does RTM and RTE stand for? Could you shed some light please?

 

Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 is proving to be of interest! Many thanks, I will keep you all posted.

 

Thnaks once more

 

FX:D

 

RTM and RTE are process whereby you can take over the running of your flat and management, maintenance away from your landlord and do it yourself (jointly with all the owners).

 

RTM means landlord owns land still and you (or management company you employ) looks after maintenance, etc..RTE is same but you also own the land, therefore no landlord at all, as you pay ground rent, it would seem that yours is an RTM or something like that.

 

You may like to check out The Leasehold advisory service website as it explains most of the stuff in the L & T Act in an easier to understand way.

 

Andy

[BlurredFX]

Afternoon all,

 

Having filed my defence, I have now received a "Notice that a Defence Has Been Filed" (N152) from the Court, saying that I must complete and AQ by the first week in October (I've got the exact date).

 

Apparently the claimant must pay a £35 fee if they complete their AQ.

 

The AQ is for (Small claims track), N149 dated ( 04.08 ).

 

I have found the following link to the form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/n149_web_1105.pdf but it has slightly different dates at the very bottom (mine says (04.08 ) not (11.05). They look the same having taken two mins to compare them, though.

 

So where does this leave us and what is the most appropriate course of action? It would seem that the Court wants to allocate it to the Small Claims Track. Provided it goes this way, does that mean I will achieve my principal aim of avoiding a CCJ?

 

Ideally I would like this lashed out of Court for the farce that it is, but obviously that is not my decision. They have provided absolutely no documentation, despite my giving them plently of time more than the 12 days I put in my original CPR18 request for more info.

 

How best to proceed?

 

I had Capquest chasing me at one point for an old credit card, and it got to this stage, and I ignored it and the Judge struck the claim, counter-claim, and my defence out, meaning that in theory they can come back and have another bite at the cherry. I want this one sorted by means of a final Court Order, if possible.

 

What prospects are there for my getting costs?

 

All thoughts and musings are, as ever, most welcome.

 

FX

[BlurredFX]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

 

is proving interesting, and PT has been helpful in the past, though I am not sure that he is still on the site or not. I think he may have got a job as a brief! He was very good taht fella.

 

Anyway, I am thinking of using something along the lines of what he proposed, though it will need to be ammended to refelct the circumstances.

 

I am a little uncertain what the implications are of what I have received from the Court, so any ideas or additions are welcome!!

 

FX

[BlurredFX]

Bump

 

Oh, isn't there a bit of that where as the defendant you give yourself 14 days to respond, which as PT put it himself could be described as "Litigation Suicide"?? I will need look at that.

 

Cheers

 

FX

Edited September 24, 2009 by BlurredFX
typo

[BlurredFX]

Bump once more.

 

I will post up my proposed letter this week, but any other input in the mean time would be much appreciated.

 

FX:)

[BlurredFX]

Afternoon Guys,

 

This query stands alone, but relates to my thread at the bottom of this post, if you wish to have a look at that. It relates to Housing, so in theory should go to an LVT but it isn't due to their complete lack of paperwork. It's like me making up a claim against some random person, then not having any paperwork to back it up. Anyway...

 

The Situation: Claimant took me to Court, I CPR18'd them, nothing was forthcoming back from them, I filed an "embarassed" defence, Judge wanted to send it down the SCT, and sends AQ out. I have returned the AQ, accepting SCT and also to show willing agreed to 28 days Small Claims Mediation. The other side have not submitted an AQ.

 

I submitted the AQ over a month ago - within the deadline set by the Judge when he sent the AQ.

 

My Question: Given the above, what is the likely to happen now? Will the DJ lash their claim out?

 

I appreciate this may be a "piece of string" type question, but any info would be better than not having any idea or other peoples thoughts!!

 

Ta

 

Blurred:)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/213905-county-court-claim-housing.html

[supasnooper]

Depends on the Judge who handles your case.

 

It maybe that the Court will give the Claimant an extra specified period of time to submit.

Perhaps the court will issue an unless order with the case being struck out.....and other scenario's.

 

Judge lottery really, as to what can happen.

[BlurredFX]

Supasnooper,

 

Thanks very much, you just confirmed my own thoughts really - but that is a help!!!

 

Thanks very much

 

Blurred

[supasnooper]

Have a look at this thread from post #65 for some further info -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/192864-cohens-claim-form-received-4.html#post2274256

[yubnub]

Hi,

 

I am in a simular situation/point with my case. You may want to also take a look at my thread to see which way it ends up going.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216382-advice-re-county-court-4.html#post2555392

 

I have returned my AQ and the claimants have not. I phoned the court to enquire whether they had filed theirs and was told that they had not filed but had requested a 28 day extension.

 

I have heard nothing further from the court as to if they will allow the extension.

 

I did today however receive a letter from the claimant offering a settlement figure to keep it out of court,

 

as mine progresses I will update my thread,

 

I wish you all the best,

 

regards,

 

YN

[DonkeyB]

You could present an N244 requesting the judge issue an 'unless' order, but that would cost £75. Brings it to a head, but your call.

[BlurredFX]

You could present an N244 requesting the judge issue an 'unless' order, but that would cost £75. Brings it to a head, but your call.

I have submitted an N244 before on other cases for a set aside, but didn't even think of it for this one! I have recently become unemployed, so they would waive the fee! Even better!

 

I think I will give it a week, that will allow the 28 days mediation to pass, even though the Court has not acknowledged mmy AQ, nor commented on their lack of AQ. Just wish it would hurry up!!

 

Does this sound sensible?

 

FX

[BlurredFX]

What would the draft order be? Unless they file an AQ then their claim be struck out?