Endeavour, Ocean Finance, Alabaster & Moore Stephens - No PPI win here!

[techtalkonline]

Ok, this may take awhile to explain but here goes!

 

I decided to try to claim back my PPI, as documented HERE (to save a lot of time in repeating everything I have already written about it so far!).

 

I sent a preliminary letter to Endeavour who wrote back confirming that I had indeed used a broker called Ocean Finance. So I sent a preliminary letter to Ocean Finance, basically asking for the PPI back.

 

To be fair, at this stage OF were really quick at responding. I had a reply within 4 days of sending my preliminary letter, asking for proof of address as I had moved since taking out the PPI. I sent proof and received another letter, this time within 3 days. A rough guide to this response is as follows:

 

"Further to your letter dated 24th June 2009, we note your complaint concerning the purchase of PPI in or around December 2004. Given the period of this transaction, Ocean Finance and Mortgages Ltd (OFML) could not have played any role in the purchase of PPI cover. OFML was not incorporated until September 2003 and did not actively operate as a business entity until 14th January 2005. We will, however, pass on your correspondence to the appropriate parties."

 

Well, I was gobsmaked to say the least! Anyway, within a week, I then received a letter from a company called "Moore Stephens Chartered Accountants". Again, I will copy the main points from this letter:

 

Dear Mr Techtalkonline

 

ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED

 

We confirm that prior to 14 January 2005 Alabaster (C.I.) Limited ("Alabaster"), a company incorporated in Jersey, was permitted, to use the name "Ocean Finance" in advertisements for the purpose of soliciting applications from the public for the granting of personal loans. Alabaster ceased trading on 31 December 2004, agter which date all of the assets of Alabaster were distributed. As Alabaster no longer held any assets and had ceased trading Moore Stephens was instructed by Alabaster to summarily wind up the company in accordance with the provisions set out in the Companies (Jersey) Law, 1991 (as amended). This process is now complete and the company has formally benn dissolved.

 

Alabaster C.I. Limited did not have any professional indemnity insurance, this was not required in order to carry out the activities of the company."

 

What a kick in the teeth! So a company was allowed to use the name Ocean Finance, but the real Ocean Finance is not liable? This is crazy.

 

I took a loan out with Endeavour through Ocean Finance, who turn out not to be Ocean Finance at all!

 

I guess it means my claim is not going anywhere now. Is there anyone who can shed some light on this issue please?

[sleepz]

Sounds like a bit of a weird one.

 

Surely your paying the PPI payments to the loan company, not the broker, so surely the loan company are still liable for returning those payments. If the loan company paid the broker a commission on the PPI, then it's them that's out of pocket ... maybe wait for someone with more experience in this field, but it does sound like a "fobb off" letter to me.

[techtalkonline]

Sounds like a bit of a weird one.

 

Surely your paying the PPI payments to the loan company, not the broker, so surely the loan company are still liable for returning those payments. If the loan company paid the broker a commission on the PPI, then it's them that's out of pocket ... maybe wait for someone with more experience in this field, but it does sound like a "fobb off" letter to me.

 

Hi sleepz,

 

Yeah, I thought the same thing too, it does sound like a "fob off" response. However, I believe that Endeavour, who I was paying for the loan, will dispute any attempt to claim back the PPI as they were not the company that sold the actual PPI, they just provided the loan part I guess.

 

Anyway, hopefully someone with the know how will let me know soon about what my rights are on this issue?

 

Kind regards,

Techtalkonline.

[sleepz]

I don't have time to read the main thread at the moment, but I assume you sent off a S.A.R ... if so, was there any mention of any commission to Ocean being paid for the PPI sale?

[sleepz]

Quite interested in this thread, as I got my First Plus loan via Ocean Finance that im trying to claim back PPI on.

[techtalkonline]

I don't have time to read the main thread at the moment, but I assume you sent off a S.A.R ... if so, was there any mention of any commission to Ocean being paid for the PPI sale?

 

I am hoping to get a spare 5 minutes (New Baby!) over the weekend to look into that. From memory, I don't recall seeing anything like that, but I will check up on it.

[alanalana]

If you do not have a copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement you should use a Subject Access Request to get it and all of the other data applicable to your loan. Once you have the CCA you need to check to see if the agreement shows the figures for the Loan and PPI on the same agreement if they are then you should make your claim for mis-selling the PPI to whoever raised the CCA as they are the ones who would have signed the document.

 

Letter templates here..... Full SAR for ppi

 

and here....

 

Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject Access Request

 

You should specifically ask for the following:::

 

You can be specific with what data you request although the Subject Access Request is really asking for everything. The Statutory fee is £10.00 Postal Order is fine but keep the details of the number for future reference. Send all correspondence by at least recorded to be signed for so you can track delievery through Royal Mail.

 

The things you should get from a Subject Access Request are:

 

True copies of your Consumer Credit Agreements (CCA) with the terms and conditions that were applicable to the agreement at the time the loan started.

 

Copies of all your statements.

 

Copies of all correspondence with regard to the loan, letter, fax, transcripts of phone calls or transcripts of phone calls, or other notes taken by them during the calls.

 

Also be specific in your request for full disclosure on any PPI added to the loans this should be identifiable on the CCA.

 

Specifically request the demands and needs/Customer duty of care questionnaire which should have been completed at the point of sale. This questionnaire should be filled out by the bank advisor to ensure all the relevant questions have been asked to ensure the product is fit for purpose and suitable to your needs. See this as an example.....

 

When you send your Subject Access Request you should ask for evidence of the questions asked at the point of sale.

 

Please see this link for an example:.....http://wwwa.mbna.co.uk/insurance/files/CP0608_INSU_MB_LP_S.pdf

 

 

The data requested should be data in any format that their organisation uses for filing, electronic, paper, microfiche, CD, Floppy, Magnetic tape.

 

Please have a read through the following links for further information.

 

PPI - Some Notes for Claimants..

 

For claims before 2005 and the FSA ruling from which campaign

How to tell if you’ve been mis-sold PPI

 

Quick check: were you mis-sold? - How to tell if you’ve been mis-sold PPI

 

Another useful site to help you reclaim missold PPI UPDATED 16 JUN 08

Reclaim your PPI premiums - payment protection insurance | This is Money

 

This is a little snippet from the above link....

Quote:

Can I reclaim on any PPI policy?

Your claim for compensation is dependent on when you took the insurance. PPI sales only came under the jurisdiction of the FSA on 14 January 2005. Any sales made before then are not covered by the latest rules.

However, it may still be worth complaining to your lender if you feel you have been mis-sold. If you bought before January 2005 it is likely that they will have been covered by a previous regime of rules. This means that the Financial Ombudsman Service will be able to consider these complaints. If you took PPI after January 2005, your claim is subject to the latest rules.

All of the above and more in this sticky at the top of the forum.

 

links

 

It's a lot of reading but some useful stuff in there

 

Hope this helps

 

Homework first

 

Then claim your money back

 

aa

[techtalkonline]

Ok, I have finally managed to get my Canon All-In-One working again, after running out of ink!

 

I have attached a copy of the Credit Agreement that I recieved when I sent a SAR to Ocean Finance, from whom I recieved all of my statements. I have edited it to remove all personal details, so the copy isn't perfect.

 

There was also a second page that had all of the T&C's on it, if you need to see it. So the question is, where do I go from here?

 

P.S. I used OpenOffice to do the editing, so you may have trouble opening or seeing the document as it should look.

Ocean Credit Agreement Document 2.rtf

[sleepz]

Let me see if I can get this right in my head

 

Who is it you pay your direct debits for the PPI to, is it Endeavour, or Ocean?

 

To be honest I've never heard of Endeavour, but I assume OF were just the broker who got you the loan with Endeavour?

 

It's a bit strange (to me) that the original contract was with Ocean Finance (as opposed to OF just forwarding your application onto someone else), but it wasn't OF that gave you the money (assuming Endeavour are the people taking your repayments).

 

Because / if the Credit Agreement is with OF (ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED)... and they've now been disolved / gone bust, surely that means that you no longer have a contract with OF (ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED) since they are no longer trading?

 

Or, if the contract is now being held by the new Ocean Finance, then that would make me assume that they are also taking on the responsibility of the debt, and therefor the responsibility of the terms of the debt, making them fair game I reckon.

[techtalkonline]

Hi sleepz,

 

Ok, the loan was taken out through a broker, Ocean Finance. I had no idea about the PPI as I didn't ask for it, nor were there any details given to me about the PPI policy when we asked for the loan. I only discovered in the last 2 weeks that the PPI was arranged by Alabaster, using the Ocean Finance name, but who are no longer in business.

 

Ocean Finance did explain that they were brokers and that the loan would be provided by Endeavour Personal Finance. It was to Endeavour that my monthly payments were made to and they who provided my monthly statements.

 

I sent my SAR to Endeavour who did send the Credit Agreement and all statements etc. At this time, I had forgotten that we went through a broker to get the loan as Endeavour had always been the ones I had received statements from, I just assumed that I had got the loan from them. Therefore, I then sent my request for the PPI to be refunded to Endeavour. They replied that I had indeed used a broker, OF, so I should ask them for the PPI refund.

 

I sent the request to OF asking for the PPI refund, but they then wrote back telling me that the PPI was actually provided by Alabaster, but that they would pass on my letter to "the relevant organisation". Little did I know that that meant the solicitors who had wound up this company!

 

I then received the letter from Moore Stephens Chartered Accountants to inform me of Alabasters ceasing trading etc.

 

Now, the question is, were Alabaster really Ocean Finance all along? What I mean is, the PPI was provided ny Ocean Finance according to my Credit Agreement as far as I can see. But Ocean Finance claim that Alabaster, who were USING the Ocean Finance name, provided the PPI and that Alabaster "conveniently" were no longer operating!

 

So did Alabaster close up shop, then reopen as Ocean Finance, but in effect is still the same company?

 

Is there anything I can do to get the PPI back and from whom?

 

I hope that this clears up any confusion, or maybe it just adds more confusion?

 

Kind regards,

TTO

[sleepz]

It would seem they are different companies, solely based on their registered address

From Company's house.

 

Alabaster CI ltd

PO BOX 776 First Island House

Peter Street

St Hellier

Jersey

Channel Islands

JE4 8ZF

 

Telephone: 01534-600444

 

 

 

Ocean Finance

Trading as Ocean Mortgages

Atlantic House Centurion Park

Wilnecote

Tamworth

 

 

Ocean Finance

Trading as Ocean Mortgages

Atlantic House Centurion Park

Wilnecote

Tamworth

 

Ocean Finance & Mortgages Ltd.

Pacific House

Relay Point

Tamworth

 

 

Im looking for help on this (in my thread), but I've added to orignal claim letter (First+ Loan sold through Central Capital broker)

 

I understand that my policy was sold through “Central Capital”, and I assure you that I am forwarding a copy of this letter to Central Capital. However, my agreement was signed on a First Plus contract, and my premiums are paid to First Plus, therefor making First Plus responsible for making a refund.

If you would like me to pursue this case with Central Capital directly then I would ask that you supply me with the amount of commission that was paid to Central Capital ( not previously included in my Subject Access Request).

 

If looks alright, and I don't know if it does or not, you could maybe write back to Endeavour and say :

 

I understand that my policy was sold through “Ocean Finance / ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED ”, However, my agreement was signed on an Endeavour contract, and my premiums are paid to Endeavour therefor making Endeavour responsible for making a refund.

 

If you would like me to pursue this case directly with the Financial Ombudsman then I would ask that you supply me with the amount of commission that was paid to “Ocean Finance / ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED ”( not previously included in my Subject Access Request).

 

?

 

These people never want you to know the commission they pay, so they may just back down and offer you the 78% thing. If they do that then your a step closer.

 

Another thing just occured to me, which kinda echoes what alanalana said, but I never really picked up on it before. The CCA shows Endeavour as the lender, so legally it would be them that signed off on the contract. If Alabaster were the broker, then they were paid a commission by Endeavour thereby making them an agent for Endeavour, surely?

Surely that's just like saying "Oh yeah, it was Jim that sold you the PPI,but he no longer works for us".

 

Try something like :

"Dear Endeavour muppets

Thank you for your response dated ##/##/##

I understand that my policy was sold through “Ocean Finance / ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED ”, However, my agreement and Consumer Credit Agreement was signed on an Endeavour contract, and my premiums are paid to Endeavour.

It is my understanding that at the time I took out the agreement with Alabaster (C.I.), they were working as agents for Endeavour and were thereby paid a commission for the service they offered.

If you would like me to pursue this case directly with the Financial Ombudsman then I would ask that you supply me with information regarding the amount of commission that was paid to “Ocean Finance / ALABASTER (C.I.) LIMITED ”, and the terms under which this commission was paid.

 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

 

"

Edited July 21, 2009 by sleepz

[techtalkonline]

Hi again!

 

We've had that damn Swine Flu run through the family, starting with our 9 month old daughter, so I haven't been able to progress any further with this issue. Anyway, I am back to full strength (cough, cough) and raring to go again.

 

Cheers for the info sleepz, that sounds like a good plan, so I will get a letter of to Endeavour just soon as my new printer arrives! The old Canon has finally given up the ghost so I have gone with an Epson SX300 All-in-One jobby.

 

If I get a response I will let you know.

 

Cheers buddy.

[zaidey]

Hi again!

 

We've had that damn Swine Flu run through the family, starting with our 9 month old daughter, so I haven't been able to progress any further with this issue. Anyway, I am back to full strength (cough, cough) and raring to go again.

 

Cheers for the info sleepz, that sounds like a good plan, so I will get a letter of to Endeavour just soon as my new printer arrives! The old Canon has finally given up the ghost so I have gone with an Epson SX300 All-in-One jobby.

 

If I get a response I will let you know.

 

Cheers buddy.

 

probably abit late to say this but watch out for the tamiflu..if you google it...

 

put tamiflu and pcp see what google returns...tamiflu is a dangerous drug

[NitrousOxide]

Whoever still recieves the payment for the PPI is the one liable or has it since been paid?

[techtalkonline]

Hi folks,

 

Just back from short holiday (well a visit to the parents!).

 

The tamiflu we got for our daughter was the liquid one. It was called Oseltamivir and tasted disgusting. When I went to the hospital in Spalding to collect it, I could see it had a label on it already, but before it was given to me, the administrator stuck one of their labels over it. All that was on this label was the dosage amount and the name of the patient i.e. my daughter. I tasted this medicine, as you do, before giving it to my daughter. This was how we discovered it was really disgusting. I said to my partner that this can't be right, she'd never take this medicine and nor would I for that matter!

 

This was when I got curious and very carefully removed the top label. Underneath was the original label that said to mix the dose of medicine with a strong sugary solution! Well, this was very worrying. The bottle didn't come in any box, so there wasn't an information sheet detailing what the medicine contained or any side effects to look out for etc, and more worryingly what to do if there were any side effects.

 

Our daughter was on this medicine for 5 days. After which she became very clingy (that had never been the case ever), one minute happy and the next crying for no apparent reason, and then became an insomniac. She just couldn't stay asleep, continually waking up every hour or so. This continued for about 3 days.

 

After that, I decided to do a Google search on this medicine and to my horror found that this was bad stuff. In Japan, so many kids died from taking it. Just looking at the Wiki page on Oseltamivir, it throws up some shocking information on serious side effects. Why the hell did I not look as soon as I got this sh*t? Read it if you dare, but if you have been given this medicine for your child, read it you must!

 

So I am just hijacking my own thread really to warn others about giving this medicine to your kids. Our 9 month old daughter may have had these side effects through the swine flu itself, or it could just be a major coincidence. I can't say for sure it was the medicine, but it is what I believe to be the case. I can say that since stopping the medicine, she improved dramatically within 2 days.

 

Pass this link on to as many people as you can, the government are poisoning our minds quite literally!

 

Back to topic soon, I need to get a letter off to Endeavour ASAP!

[mcg68]

I wrote to Ocean Finance re. claiming back PPI but I sent the letter to Ocean Finance and Morgages Ltd. after sending an SAR a few weeks ago. The SAR showed (although most of it was blanked out) that I borrowed £20k from them in Jan 2002 and paid £4k on top for PPI.

 

Today I have received a reply saying that they could not possibly have sold me the PPI as they were not incorporated until September 2003 and didnt actually trade until Jan 2005.

 

So, have "Ocean Finance Ltd." who sold me the PPI in 2002 gone bust and reinvented themselves as "Ocean Finance and Mortgages Ltd." who now claim to not be liable or responsible for anything the previous company did?

 

Has anyone else come up against this? Should I now go straight to the Ombudsman?

 

Thanks,

Mick

[mcg68]

I have had a butchers on Companies House and there is a company called Ocean Finance Ltd who are Dissolved - but there is another company also called Ocean Finance who you can click into and it says their next Accounts are due 04/05/2011 and they are at the same address as "OFML" as in their letter above.

 

Any advice? Are they still trading as Ocean Finance Ltd?

[Jan4a]

I've heard of Ocean Finance but can't recall where as it was years ago. Am wondering if it was one of those companies that wound up to avoid the endowments misselling claims years ago.

[mcg68]

Nope, they are still trading as Ocean Finance Ltd. at the exact same address as Ocean Finance and Mortgages Ltd.

 

They have sent me a fob off letter purely on the technicality that I addressed it to Ocean Finance and Mortgages Ltd. and the loan was with Ocean Finance Ltd.

 

Petty or what? I reckon they are running scared and if thats all they can come up with, its a good sign. The way I see it is that if they had a genuine reason to not pay back my PPI they would have written with the legal reasons and not just that I put the wrong company name on the envelope. Tossers!!

 

Makes me even more determined to get my small fortune back.

[Jan4a]

Good for you - all sounds very dodgy. Would love to know if the directors are the same for both Oceans. Think you have to pay for that info on Companies House website though.

[mcg68]

I'll pay for it when I get my 4+ grand back - so I can send them both a Christmas card.

[Jan4a]

nice one! Maybe we should all send thank you cards too.

[pompeyfaith]

ok check out the FSA website hot off the press the financial industry has been given another bloody nose use it to your advantage

[di0430]

Hi there

 

Sorry to butt in on your thread, but just to let you know that I am in the same position as you, but am going to keep fighting on this one.

 

We taken out a loan in July 2004, broker - Click Finance and lender Endeavour, broker unfortunatey dissolved in 2006.

 

However, received lots of paperwork back from Endeavour and underwriters paperwork show a number of companies, Click1, Click Finance and so on, as Click Finance are still running but a a different company number and will not take any liability at all, because even though its the same director, he says there is nothing he can do.

 

Anyway, if you have your agreement, on mine it does not say a great deal on the terms and conds that we have with that, and to ask for the paperwork, "the policy of the PPI", they send you this on request, that I find interesting.

 

For when we taken the loan out, for the Customers complaints dept, on the insurance it states that you must contact Hamilton Insurance, if they do not resolve by 8 weeks, then write to their own chief executive, then from there if still not resolved, you can go to the FOS.

 

Unfortunately though as informed Click finance/Endeavour were not governed in 2004, so cannot take to the FOS.

 

In the paperwork a copy of the PPI policy, and for Customer care, requests or complaints it states

 

Complaints concerning this policy should be sent to

 

Customer Services Department

Hamilton Insurance

PO Box 4718

Birmingham

B1 3RF.

 

If your not satisfied with the handling or your complaint have not been resolved within 8 weeks please write to "our chief executive at Hamilton Insurance, North St, Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 4TD".

 

After writing to the Chief Executive, and remain dissatisfied or your complaint have not been resolved within 8 weeks, you can approach the Financial Ombudsman Service..............

 

This is signed then from the Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer

"in respect of the Unemployment Insurance and in respect of Disability insurance where the initial term is less than 5 years where you pay disability premium.

 

Signed on behalf of Hamilton Life Assurance Company Limited

In respect of Life Insurance and in respect of Disability Insurance where the initial term is 5 years.

 

Hamilton company number: 1656838

 

It then states that they are authorised and regulated by the FSA, incorporated with limited liability and members of the Association of British insurers and the FOS.

Endeavour personal finance and the insurers are connected as they are both members of the same group of companies.

 

Not sure if this occurs to you and when you taken this out, but if you do not have this 3 or 4 page ppi policy paperwork write to request for this, if you need the address details let me know.

 

Good luck.