A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

[sequenci]

I totally forgot! Will look into this today if I get time, my gut feeling is that you can either apply to have the restriction removed or that it falls off automatically. I'll try and find out.

[Ganymede]

Did you ever find the answer as I can't see a reply in subsequent postings ?

 

 

Are you referring to t question of how a CO shows on the register of a jointly owned property? The CO shows as a Restriction and the holder can apply for an OFS in the same way as if the CO was registered as an equitable charge.

[sequenci]

I'm sure if no further action ahs been brought it would be pretty easy to request that he restriction is removed (provided the charge has not been made final)

[Ganymede]

I'm sure if no further action ahs been brought it would be pretty easy to request that he restriction is removed (provided the charge has not been made final)

 

 

 

If you want to remove an interim order that has not been made final you will need to send to land registry a copy of the court order dismissing the CO application, or better yet get the creditors solicitors to do it!

[Swalegend]

HFC HAVE final charging order on restriciton for joint property. Dads debt not mine, solely his name. Will they sell house and make family homeless.. Please answer as this is worrying..

[mac2lrk]

Hi

 

I am in a similar position - s2bx has debt resulting in charge on house even though he has moved out and we are in divorce proceedings, cos his name is still on the mortgage.

 

The Judge said this effectively makes it a secured loan on the house.

They will be able to enforce sale but only if payments are missed. If you think yr ex may not pay it maybe worthwhile contating the company direct (they might not discuss it as its not your debt, but its worth a try). Also if there is any equity in the house, it will only come out of his portion - say there was a 50-50 split, then you will still have your share. Honestly though it is very rare for an enforced sale - so I have been told.

 

I am trying to get my ex to pay off the debt or negotiate with Tesco to lift the charge. It's a horrid situation to be in.

Good luck

[gramtrad2]

My bank are in the process of trying to place a charge on my house for £35k !! There is insufficient equity and my wife (who is not on the mortgage) but has a claim on the property since it was bought with joint money).

 

It is clear to me that trying to oppose any charge is futile; I tried it with a smaller charge about 6 months ago. I ticked all the boxes (no equity, wife and daughter with an interest in the house, unfair to other larger creditors, etc), however, the judge simply waved it all through!

 

We have been to CAB for advice and they seem quite relaxed about it (unless we accidentally stumbled upon one who was not clued up!). They said that judges rarely go along with forced sales if people are prepared to pay something towards the debt each month and some are simply in it for the long run!

 

I am bracing myself to negotiate with them!

[Mrs E Blackadder]

As far as I am aware, my ex has never paid a penny towards either of the charges placed on the property inwhich I still live (mortgage is still in joint names as he pays to keep the roof over mine and the childrens heads), but so far I have never been asked to sell up. Frankly, the creditors would get nothing after the mortgage is paid off, so I think they are happy to just sit and wait it out.

 

However, I have read somewhere that when a charge is placed on a property which is joint names, but the charge is only in one name, if the property is sold then the charge does not have to be paid. I'm not sure that I understood it correctly, but if I am right perhaps someone could confirm the details which might be of help to the others in this tthread.

[mac2lrk]

My bank are in the process of trying to place a charge on my house for £35k !! There is insufficient equity and my wife (who is not on the mortgage) but has a claim on the property since it was bought with joint money).

 

It is clear to me that trying to oppose any charge is futile; I tried it with a smaller charge about 6 months ago. I ticked all the boxes (no equity, wife and daughter with an interest in the house, unfair to other larger creditors, etc), however, the judge simply waved it all through!

 

We have been to CAB for advice and they seem quite relaxed about it (unless we accidentally stumbled upon one who was not clued up!). They said that judges rarely go along with forced sales if people are prepared to pay something towards the debt each month and some are simply in it for the long run!

 

I am bracing myself to negotiate with them!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I had done loads of research and prepared a detailed document for both court cases, mentioning previous cases and like you, divorce, not living in the property etc, even prepped my ex!

My ex couldn't attend the 1st hearing as he works abroad, but he sent supporting documentation, letters from his employer, and his work contract.

At the 2nd hearing the Judge said to my husband, "if you had attended the previous hearing I wouldn't be putting the charge on the house", my husband told the judge that he had sent documentation explaining why he couldn't attend, the Judge replied "yes I know, I received the documents you sent!"

My ex has been paying into a DMP for 2 years, an agreed amount with Tesco, and never missed a payment when Incasso/Tesco applied for the charge. The Judge wasn't interested in that either. The order was for the exact amount he had already been paying them via the DMP.

A complete waste of time.

Now divorce proceeding have made things are little sour between me and my ex, he works abroad, so there is a very real threat that he might not continue to pay and not be held accountable.

I might be forced to sell as part of the Divorce hearing but the money for the charge will only come out of my husband's share of the equity, which I estimate will not cover the charge, or he could order my husband to pay the charge in full and sign the equity over to me . (wishful thinking)

A messy situation and could have been avoided if the Judge hadn't sided with the big corporation.

[meursault22]

My bank are in the process of trying to place a charge on my house for £35k !! There is insufficient equity and my wife (who is not on the mortgage) but has a claim on the property since it was bought with joint money).

 

It is clear to me that trying to oppose any charge is futile; I tried it with a smaller charge about 6 months ago. I ticked all the boxes (no equity, wife and daughter with an interest in the house, unfair to other larger creditors, etc), however, the judge simply waved it all through!

 

 

We have been to CAB for advice and they seem quite relaxed about it (unless we accidentally stumbled upon one who was not clued up!). They said that judges rarely go along with forced sales if people are prepared to pay something towards the debt each month and some are simply in it for the long run!

 

I am bracing myself to negotiate with them!

 

Yes, the whole thing is a [problem] and it just becomes easier and easier for these companies to put charges on property. The judge I've encountered is so biased and sociopathic it's not funny. I had to leave hospital to attend a final charging order hearing against the wishes of my doctors. I was in hospital because of a stress induced stroke and I went to court with the drip still plumbed into my arm just for the judge to be really rude to me and wave the thing through without even considering my defence. The judge was so beaming towards the claimant's solicitor who didn't even have to say anything, that I'd be amazed if they weren't backscuttling each other straight after the hearing. It turned out that the charge had been finalized at the land registry, complete with court judgemennt, a week before the final charging order hearing! When I complained, it was decided that because the judge's decision matched the verdict that was used a week earlier, there was no problem and the complaint cost me even more. It's all a [problem] I tells ya.

[Ganymede]

Yes, the whole thing is a [problem] and it just becomes easier and easier for these companies to put charges on property. The judge I've encountered is so biased and sociopathic it's not funny. I had to leave hospital to attend a final charging order hearing against the wishes of my doctors. I was in hospital because of a stress induced stroke and I went to court with the drip still plumbed into my arm just for the judge to be really rude to me and wave the thing through without even considering my defence. The judge was so beaming towards the claimant's solicitor who didn't even have to say anything, that I'd be amazed if they weren't backscuttling each other straight after the hearing. It turned out that the charge had been finalized at the land registry, complete with court judgemennt, a week before the final charging order hearing! When I complained, it was decided that because the judge's decision matched the verdict that was used a week earlier, there was no problem and the complaint cost me even more. It's all a [problem] I tells ya.

 

 

 

That's not possible.

 

Are you sure it's not the ICO that was registered?

[meursault22]

That's not possible.

 

Are you sure it's not the ICO that was registered?

 

I am 100% sure. The interim charging order was registered just over a month previous to this then notification of the final charging order arrived from the land registry the morning of the final charging order hearing having been finalized several days before. I checked with the land registry and they confirmed that all the paperwork to finalize the charging order had arrived with them a week before the final charging order hearing, so it shouldn't be possible, but it is. I have the proof in black and white. I tried to complain on the grounds that the judge must have known that the charging order had already been made final before the hearing and therefore did not enter the court with an open mind, but it seems that everything in the county court comes down to judges' discretion leaving it wide open to allsorts of nonsense.

[tifo]

I checked with the land registry and they confirmed that all the paperwork to finalize the charging order had arrived with them a week before the final charging order hearing, so it shouldn't be possible, but it is. I have the proof in black and white. I tried to complain on the grounds that the judge must have known that the charging order had already been made final before the hearing and therefore did not enter the court with an open mind.

 

It seems a miscarriage of justice has occurred ....

[the_shadow]

Agree... possibly a complaint to the parliamentary ombudsman

 

S.

[Ganymede]

I am 100% sure. The interim charging order was registered just over a month previous to this then notification of the final charging order arrived from the land registry the morning of the final charging order hearing having been finalized several days before. I checked with the land registry and they confirmed that all the paperwork to finalize the charging order had arrived with them a week before the final charging order hearing, so it shouldn't be possible, but it is. I have the proof in black and white. I tried to complain on the grounds that the judge must have known that the charging order had already been made final before the hearing and therefore did not enter the court with an open mind, but it seems that everything in the county court comes down to judges' discretion leaving it wide open to allsorts of nonsense.

 

 

I'm sorry, and I don't want to start an argument, but I simply don't believe that this would happen.

 

There must be another explanation.

[meursault22]

I'm sorry, and I don't want to start an argument, but I simply don't believe that this would happen.

 

There must be another explanation.

 

Believe it or not, it has happened. Send me your address via PM along with your work contact details to be sure you're not from the opposition solicitors or anything and I'll send you proof. The explanation is that the creditor's solicitors/DCA do nothing but charging orders and orders for sale. They pushed the boundaries knowing they would get away with it. The belief of people like you that everything is on the up and up in the county courts is how they get away with it. It has become obvious to me that, at least in small towns where county court judges are more or less unaccountable, who knows who is more important than the law.

[Ganymede]

Believe it or not, it has happened. Send me your address via PM along with your work contact details to be sure you're not from the opposition solicitors or anything and I'll send you proof. The explanation is that the creditor's solicitors/DCA do nothing but charging orders and orders for sale. They pushed the boundaries knowing they would get away with it. The belief of people like you that everything is on the up and up in the county courts is how they get away with it. It has become obvious to me that, at least in small towns where county court judges are more or less unaccountable, who knows who is more important than the law.

 

 

I won't give you my work details, but I don't not work for your opponents solicitors!

 

What court was it in?

[Mrs E Blackadder]

The trouble with these things is that there seems to be no way of stopping charging orders. Therefore, I suspect that the boundaries have been pushed on this one as they felt safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't be turned down anyway. Under the circumstances I think a formal complaint should be made if for no other reason than you were not given a chance to offer any defence, and hopefully you can find a way of getting it set aside.

[meursault22]

I won't give you my work details, but I don't not work for your opponents solicitors!

 

What court was it in?

Double negative ... hmmm. I'm going to try a complaint to the parliamentary ombudsman before anything else.

 

It was in a very small county court where the judge has reserved the case to himself. I've offered proof and I'm not going to derail this thread any further trying to convince you, but I know for sure and have shown the paperwork to several solicitors who all agreed that there is an inexplicable discrepancy.

[meursault22]

The trouble with these things is that there seems to be no way of stopping charging orders. Therefore, I suspect that the boundaries have been pushed on this one as they felt safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't be turned down anyway. Under the circumstances I think a formal complaint should be made if for no other reason than you were not given a chance to offer any defence, and hopefully you can find a way of getting it set aside.

 

To whom would you make the formal complaint? I have complained to the court as well as been granted a hearing via N244 at which the judge decided there was no descrepancy to be answered because the decision at the hearing matched the one submitted to the land registry a week earlier. He also granted the claimant a large amount of extra costs for this hearing. Is there anyone else to complain to?

[Mrs E Blackadder]

As far as I am aware, you can make a complaint about the judge to the office for Judicial Complaints. They won't look into the judgement itself, but can look at how the judge behaved in court. I don't know if that would be of any use to you. Maybe your local MP would become involved, especially if you point out to him that a decision appeared to have been made even before it came to court - personally I thought that the English legal system was based on fairness and allowing everyone to have their say (stops typing to wipe tears of laughter from eyes!)

[the_shadow]

I think we're going to see more of these types of cases, with the judiciary under pressure to make severe job cuts, corners no doubt will be cut. Complaints should and need to be made.

 

S.

[Mrs E Blackadder]

 

 

Absolutely right, but unfortunately they make it very difficult to do so.

 

When it comes to the legal system, it does seem to be a case of everyone closing ranks and unless you have thousands to spend on a brilliant lawyer to unravel it all for you then you are on to a total loser.

 

There is plenty of information on what happens if you have to go to court and what the procedures will be, but there is virtually no information on how to make a complaint about something that has not been carried out correctly. I wonder why this is? Oh yes, I remember now, it's because THEY DON'T WANT ANY COMPLAINTS.

[ssbjham]

Help needed I'm so confused. I have just received an interim charging order from Restons Solicitors for a debt I have with MBNA. I also have had a letter from the Land registry office regarding a request for a charge to be put on the property. The court date has been set for 13th September. Previous to that I had a county court judgement stating it was in default as I had not returned the form.My question is where do I go from here ? This debt involved acredit card debt with MBNA which I had come to arrangement plan with them and have been paying by SO every month without fail.I did receive the form to fill in which I duly completeed and sent back to Restons (solicitors).They at the last minute sent it back saying that it wasn t complete so I used my judgement and sent it back again.The next thing I knew i had a letter from the court saying that a judgement for the whole amount had been issused by default as I hadn t sent the form.I am still paying by SO but can t pay full amount.

Does anyone know where I should or could go from here?

Would it be better to just let the charge go ahead?

Any help appreciated and apologies if I haven't posted this correctly.

 

 

[Ganymede]

Double negative ... hmmm. I'm going to try a complaint to the parliamentary ombudsman before anything else.

 

It was in a very small county court where the judge has reserved the case to himself. I've offered proof and I'm not going to derail this thread any further trying to convince you, but I know for sure and have shown the paperwork to several solicitors who all agreed that there is an inexplicable discrepancy.

 

 

Sorry, meant to say do not - typo!