Hardship and account closure

[AA99]

still subbing Landy Wishing you all the good luck you can get

[landy_alert]

still subbing Landy Wishing you all the good luck you can get

 

Hi AA:)

 

Very many thanks for your good wishes - sending the same your way too!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

Just an update to this continuing saga -

 

Today we received a letter from the FOS which told us that as LTSB had taken 5 months to not give us a Final Response, they have contacted LTSB and have asked them to provide one within the next 14 days. The FOS will get back to us once the 14 days is up.

 

I hope they have greater success than me then - I also wrote to LTSB a few days ago giving them 7 days to provide us with a Final Response and today I got my tenth identical letter (from Joanne Pain - never was a name more apt, LOL) saying -

 

'Thank you for contacting us recently. We're very sorry to hear that you have some concerns.......let me assure you that your complaint is getting the attention it deserves..........we will get a response to you as soon as we can'

 

What a load of hogwash!

 

Anyway, this proves that yourbank was speaking sense as usual when he spoke of the importance of the Final Response letter - I just wish that in the five months this has been going on I had asked for one before. However, knowing LTSB I find it hard to believe they would have complied:eek:

 

I read on MSE that the FSA would be interested to see any 'fob-off' letters received from LTSB. I have already complained to the FSA but didn't include copies of the 20 odd letters we have received, so I think I might just get these copied and sent off. Anything to put another nail in LTSB's coffin!

 

Will update this thread as and when further action occurs.

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[yourbank]

Landy I just need you to repeat one thing to me...."Anyway, this proves that yourbank was speaking sense as usual when he spoke of the importance of the Final Response letter"

 

Did you expect me not to speak sense

 

LOL, once you have a financial difficulty final response then post it up and we can work on it and see if we can argue the case.

[car2403]

No, it's just that we're surprised you were right

[yourbank]

No, it's just that we're surprised you were right

 

LMFAO.

[landy_alert]

Landy I just need you to repeat one thing to me...."Anyway, this proves that yourbank was speaking sense as usual when he spoke of the importance of the Final Response letter"

 

Did you expect me not to speak sense

 

LOL, once you have a financial difficulty final response then post it up and we can work on it and see if we can argue the case.

 

Sorry teacher - shall I write it out 100 times for you:D:D:D

 

Seriously, will do - as soon as I am in receipt of it!

 

Thanks again for your support.

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

........well the clock is ticking for LTSB to come up with their Final Response and no more letters from 'Joanne Pain in the Backside' as yet.......6 days to go and counting;)

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[yourbank]

Hi everyone:)

 

........well the clock is ticking for LTSB to come up with their Final Response and no more letters from 'Joanne Pain in the Backside' as yet.......6 days to go and counting;)

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

If you get one, please can you post it on here cos I have never seen a yeti, I have never seen the Loch Ness monster and at the moment I haven't seen a LloydsTSB financial hardship closure letter . I want to see one of the above before I die(sad I know )

[landy_alert]

If you get one, please can you post it on here cos I have never seen a yeti, I have never seen the Loch Ness monster and at the moment I haven't seen a LloydsTSB financial hardship closure letter . I want to see one of the above before I die(sad I know )

 

Hi yourbank:)

 

Brilliant - but you'll have to be quick if you want to see it, 'cos I'll be sticking it straight on ebay, LOL!!!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[maroondevo52]

You've got a better chance of seeing Nessie I, like all scots have

[AA99]

Subbing

[landy_alert]

Subbing

 

Hi AA:)

 

Thanks for your continued support!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

If you get one, please can you post it on here cos I have never seen a yeti, I have never seen the Loch Ness monster and at the moment I haven't seen a LloydsTSB financial hardship closure letter . I want to see one of the above before I die(sad I know )

 

Hi yourbank et al:)

 

Well, I don't want you to choke on your mid-morning latte or whatever and I'm sure you'll say it's not kosher for whatever reason, but......

prepare to be amazed, for I have in my possession this morning, hot of ye olde CSR, Hove printing press...............wait for it..................

 

...............a letter with the heading FINAL RESPONSE!!!

 

Right, now that you've picked yourself up off the floor, the letter says -

 

Final Response

 

Dear Mr and Mrs landy_alert,

 

Your Complaint

 

You are unhappy that we have not considered refunding your bank charges in view of your financial hardship as stated in the OFT guidelines.

 

Background/Circumstances

 

I understand that you have a complaint logged with our CSRC in Andover who will be contacting you in due course. I would like to assure you that they have completed a full assessment of your circumstances and case. However, they have been unable to agree to reduce the outstanding balance of your account at present.

 

My colleague also confirmed in our letter dated the **** that whilst the OFT legal case is ongoing, the Bank cannot address the issue of unfair bank charges. Until the outcome is known, the charges have not been judged to be unfair and have been applied in accordance with the Bank's published tariff and pre-notified to you. The principal sum spent is due and payable, and the Bank expects repayments to be made. Whilst, writing she also confirmed that before closure of the account for collection of the balance due, some charges were in fact not applied to your account as a gesture of goodwill.

 

My colleague advised that recovery action would continue and to ensure that you made repayment arrangements with the Bank's agents, who will contact you shortly.

 

My Conclusion/Resolution

 

I have fully reviewed your cheque account and note that charges were incurred as a result of spending and unpaid direct debits. I also note that during **** 2008 several direct debits were set up, which caused further charges to be incurred as insufficient funds were available. I must advise that all charges are in line with the terms and conditions of your account and therefore they are valid.

 

I appreciate that you are currently experience (sic) financial difficulties, however, I do feel that the action we have taken to refer the account to CDR, was most beneficial to you. This is because the interest is permanently suspended.

 

I would like to suggest hat (sic) you contact CDR on **** as a matter of urgency. Please be advised failure to do so, may result in further recovery action taking place.

 

I would like to assure you that your claim for historic charges will remain on hold whilst the test case is on-going and Andover will keep you updated of any developments in this case.

 

I hope you now feel that I've been able to answer all the points you raised with us. Please treat this letter as our final response. This means that if you're still unhappy, you can ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate your comolaint, so long as you do so within six months of the date of this letter.

 

I am enclosing a booklet about the FOS, which includes their address and telephone number.

 

Yours sincerely

 

****

 

There were one or two bits I've left out for personal reasons that refer to SAR stuff that's not relevant to the hardship question.

 

So................what do we make of that folks?

 

They still haven't specifically referred to any of our points re: priority debt arrears, huge drop in income etc, but, and it's a big but, it does say Final Response - so now I just need to know where I go from here.....

 

..........yourbank are you there:eek:

 

Looking forward to some views on this please!

 

Thanks,

 

Landy x

[yourbank]

Hi yourbank et al:)

 

Well, I don't want you to choke on your mid-morning latte or whatever and I'm sure you'll say it's not kosher for whatever reason, but......

prepare to be amazed, for I have in my possession this morning, hot of ye olde CSR, Hove printing press...............wait for it..................

 

...............a letter with the heading FINAL RESPONSE!!!

 

Right, now that you've picked yourself up off the floor, the letter says -

 

Final Response

 

Dear Mr and Mrs landy_alert,

 

Your Complaint

 

You are unhappy that we have not considered refunding your bank charges in view of your financial hardship as stated in the OFT guidelines.

 

Background/Circumstances

 

I understand that you have a complaint logged with our CSRC in Andover who will be contacting you in due course. I would like to assure you that they have completed a full assessment of your circumstances and case. However, they have been unable to agree to reduce the outstanding balance of your account at present.

interesting.....

My colleague also confirmed in our letter dated the **** that whilst the OFT legal case is ongoing, the Bank cannot address the issue of unfair bank charges. Until the outcome is known, the charges have not been judged to be unfair and have been applied in accordance with the Bank's published tariff and pre-notified to you. The principal sum spent is due and payable, and the Bank expects repayments to be made. Whilst, writing she also confirmed that before closure of the account for collection of the balance due, some charges were in fact not applied to your account as a gesture of goodwill.

Did Barclays make you aware of this?

My colleague advised that recovery action would continue and to ensure that you made repayment arrangements with the Bank's agents, who will contact you shortly.

Offer £1 per month until the conclusion of the OFT test case when you will make full repayment plans since as they have stated, "OFT legal case is ongoing, the Bank cannot address the issue of unfair bank charges"and nor can you repay unfair bank charges until such time as the OFT test case is concluded. A token payment is made as a gesture of goodwill on your part

My Conclusion/Resolution

 

I have fully reviewed your cheque account and note that charges were incurred as a result of spending and unpaid direct debits. I also note that during **** 2008 several direct debits were set up, which caused further charges to be incurred as insufficient funds were available. I must advise that all charges are in line with the terms and conditions of your account and therefore they are valid.

You need to look at this point. Were Direct debits set up? Were Direct debits cancelled as well. Was there a drop in income at this point in time or a reason for additional Direct Debits that were essential for your living costs?

I appreciate that you are currently experience (sic) financial difficulties, however, I do feel that the action we have taken to refer the account to CDR, was most beneficial to you. This is because the interest is permanently suspended.

Technical get out clause since they have suspended interest permanently.

I would like to suggest hat (sic) you contact CDR on **** as a matter of urgency. Please be advised failure to do so, may result in further recovery action taking place.

Offer token payments only since you can't take action on a disputed account and if they sue you then the charges are the defence

I would like to assure you that your claim for historic charges will remain on hold whilst the test case is on-going and Andover will keep you updated of any developments in this case.

fairly standard

I hope you now feel that I've been able to answer all the points you raised with us. Please treat this letter as our final response. This means that if you're still unhappy, you can ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate your comolaint, so long as you do so within six months of the date of this letter.

Now we got something to play with

I am enclosing a booklet about the FOS, which includes their address and telephone number.

 

Yours sincerely

 

****

 

There were one or two bits I've left out for personal reasons that refer to SAR stuff that's not relevant to the hardship question.

 

So................what do we make of that folks?

 

They still haven't specifically referred to any of our points re: priority debt arrears, huge drop in income etc, but, and it's a big but, it does say Final Response - so now I just need to know where I go from here.....

 

..........yourbank are you there:eek:

 

Looking forward to some views on this please!

 

Thanks,

 

Landy x

 

Just picked myself off the floor as I think this is a final response on financial hardship.

See the comments above and this is the points you need to focus on, ie what happened in 2008 and the effects it has had up to today.

[landy_alert]

Hi yourbank:)

 

Many thanks for your prompt response and hope you didn't damage the carpet if you spilled anything when you fainted in shock:D

 

Am just going to get something to eat, then will answer the points you've raised - back in a mo..........

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[yourbank]

Hi yourbank:)

 

Many thanks for your prompt response and hope you didn't damage the carpet if you spilled anything when you fainted in shock:D

 

Am just going to get something to eat, then will answer the points you've raised - back in a mo..........

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

 

Eating is cheating

[landy_alert]

Eating is cheating

 

I know, I know - a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips - but it was yummy buttered crumpets:D

 

Right, to business -

 

Firstly, Lloyds did send a letter in June 2009 saying they had not applied some charges when our account was closed in answer to one of my many hardship letters. The account was closed in May so we have not had access to online banking since then. The last paper bank statement we received was the one for April and there was only about £6 in o/d interest charged. In March charges were £20 for an unpaid D/D and £60+ in O/D interest. Prior to this charges were averaging £100 pm.

 

However, following on from this in answer to your point about D/Ds set up/cancelled -

 

Prior to December 2008 when they say we set up D/Ds, the only D/Ds we had going out of the account were two to LTSB themselves for two loans. We had previously (in August 2008) made other arrangements for any payments we had going out and these were the only two left.

 

During December 2008 Mr L had to renew his car insurance and despite trying to make alternative arrangements I believe the insurance co took the payment as a one-off D/D as they had done the year before. As soon as this was noticed Mr L cancelled the D/D but not before the insurance co had made a couple of failed attempts to take the payment.

 

Also as it was both house insurance and TV licence renewal time in December, both these companies did something similar. I think we momentarily took our eyes off the ball and forgot to cancel the annual premium on the buildings/contents insurance and despite writing to TV licencing to make other arrangements to pay, both these payments went out in the form of D/Ds - the insurance one twice and TV licence once.

 

Again as soon as we realised our error we cancelled the D/Ds and sent building society cheques to the two companies concerned. Even so these were one off payments and not monthly D/Ds.

 

As for a drop in income - Mr L had left a well-paid job because of stress to set up a business working at home. This was set up in July 2008, but due to the recession it hasn't taken off. During the summer of 2008 we just about managed, but by November things had nose-dived. We had not been making large credits into our account for some time though and had only nominal amounts going in since August. By November, apart from Child Tax Credits these had dried up totally.

 

Let me know if you need any further info!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[car2403]

Why you've waited for a final response when you can go to the FOS after 8 weeks of not receiving one is beyond me, but I'm only just looking in.

 

Nothing in their reply resolves your complaint - it's procrastination to the Nth degree, as expected. The Bank are simply saying "we don't agree that you are suffering financial hardship, so we won't progress your complaint as a result". If you disagree, which it seems you do, you need to follow the process and refer this to the FOS for review, IMHO.

[landy_alert]

Why you've waited for a final response when you can go to the FOS after 8 weeks of not receiving one is beyond me, but I'm only just looking in.

 

Nothing in their reply resolves your complaint - it's procrastination to the Nth degree, as expected. The Bank are simply saying "we don't agree that you are suffering financial hardship, so we won't progress your complaint as a result". If you disagree, which it seems you do, you need to follow the process and refer this to the FOS for review, IMHO.

 

Hi Chris:)

 

I know, I'm an idiot, but I s'pose I just hoped that LTSB would see sense and realise how bad our situation was ('fool' I hear you cry:D)

 

We have (finally) passed this to the FOS about 3 weeks ago, but unfortunately I now don't hold out much hope there either.

 

As for the contents of their 'Final Response', you're quite right - it's typical LTSB balderdash rather than a detailed response tailored to our situation - more generic clap-trap:shock: - no surprises there then!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[car2403]

You may be surprised with the FOS on this one - I'm living in hope anyway. They should take their responsibilites regarding hardship seriously, as the Courts can't rule on this situation due to the flaming test case. If they don't, I'm sure you complainn to the FSA, as the FOS is expected to uphold the waiver, which includes making sure the Banks are dealing with those cases as a priority.

 

Surely the FOS can't agree with the Bank on this one?

[landy_alert]

Thanks Chris - hopefully your optimism will rub off on me:D

 

I did already notify the FSA about LTSB's apparent breaches of the Waiver and the FSA's response was not only that banks must not put hardship claims on hold, but that they have passed a copy of my complaint to the department responsible for granting waivers and monitoring firms' compliance with the waiver and associated conditions, for that department's consideration.

 

I read on another forum (no names mentioned) that the FSA are encouraging complainants to send in copies of 'fob-off' letters received from LTSB as they are gathering evidence against them - let's hope so eh?

 

Thanks again for your input - it's most appreciated!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

Edited August 8, 2009 by landy_alert
typo!

[yourbank]

You may be surprised with the FOS on this one - I'm living in hope anyway. They should take their responsibilites regarding hardship seriously, as the Courts can't rule on this situation due to the flaming test case. If they don't, I'm sure you complainn to the FSA, as the FOS is expected to uphold the waiver, which includes making sure the Banks are dealing with those cases as a priority.

 

Surely the FOS can't agree with the Bank on this one?

 

With all due respect, there is hardship and there is severe hardship and people going to the FOS without the bank issuing a final response, going to the FOS because they have been "tricked" into believing they will get 100% of their claim paid out, going to the FOS when they are repaying arrears on priority debts(when the very fact that they are is not financial hardship).

Or rejecting offers which is ludicrous and which people have been doing or failing to provide proof of financial hardship merely saying that the bank MUST know. Or not completing household income and expenditure since financial hardship is household not singular. Or claiming that they are in hardship with an account closed in 2006.

The FOS will deal with complainants who simply say on their form, "I am in hardship" and provide no breakdowns whatsoever which delays claims. It's not as simple as you assume it to be unfortunately.

[yourbank]

I know, I know - a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips - but it was yummy buttered crumpets:D

 

Right, to business -

 

Firstly, Lloyds did send a letter in June 2009 saying they had not applied some charges when our account was closed in answer to one of my many hardship letters. The account was closed in May so we have not had access to online banking since then. The last paper bank statement we received was the one for April and there was only about £6 in o/d interest charged. In March charges were £20 for an unpaid D/D and £60+ in O/D interest. Prior to this charges were averaging £100 pm.

 

However, following on from this in answer to your point about D/Ds set up/cancelled -

 

Prior to December 2008 when they say we set up D/Ds, the only D/Ds we had going out of the account were two to LTSB themselves for two loans. We had previously (in August 2008) made other arrangements for any payments we had going out and these were the only two left.

 

During December 2008 Mr L had to renew his car insurance and despite trying to make alternative arrangements I believe the insurance co took the payment as a one-off D/D as they had done the year before. As soon as this was noticed Mr L cancelled the D/D but not before the insurance co had made a couple of failed attempts to take the payment.

 

Also as it was both house insurance and TV licence renewal time in December, both these companies did something similar. I think we momentarily took our eyes off the ball and forgot to cancel the annual premium on the buildings/contents insurance and despite writing to TV licencing to make other arrangements to pay, both these payments went out in the form of D/Ds - the insurance one twice and TV licence once.

 

Again as soon as we realised our error we cancelled the D/Ds and sent building society cheques to the two companies concerned. Even so these were one off payments and not monthly D/Ds.

 

As for a drop in income - Mr L had left a well-paid job because of stress to set up a business working at home. This was set up in July 2008, but due to the recession it hasn't taken off. During the summer of 2008 we just about managed, but by November things had nose-dived. We had not been making large credits into our account for some time though and had only nominal amounts going in since August. By November, apart from Child Tax Credits these had dried up totally.

 

Let me know if you need any further info!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

I'm pleased you cannot see the look on my face but it is bad.

I am gonna try a slightly different track. When did you first write to them and when did you provide income and expenditure forms and copies of arrears notices to them?

 

I think hardship could be a no go but......

[landy_alert]

I'm pleased you cannot see the look on my face but it is bad.

I am gonna try a slightly different track. When did you first write to them and when did you provide income and expenditure forms and copies of arrears notices to them?

 

I think hardship could be a no go but......

 

Ah there you are yourbank - I was beginning to think you had stumbled over that yeti:D

 

Don't worry about me seeing the look on your face, I've almost given up hope anyway so any help you can give now would be appreciated!

 

We first approached LTSB in Feb 2009. At that point we were unaware of the hardship criteria so didn't enclose any I&E,arrears notices etc.

 

We then heard about hardship so followed this up with an I&E early in March along with a financial affairs statement which explained our financial situation.

 

We didn't realise about the importance of priority debt arrears until May, although we had been in receipt of arrears notices since Jan 2009, but in May we sent copies of these plus an updated I&E showing a drop of over 60% in household income to LTSB.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x