TFC and bills of sale

[postggj]

I also address the issue of 'costs' for information held at the High Court of Justice - when you need to write to the High Court of Justice - the Address is:

 

Room E17

Enforcement Officer

Royal Courts of Justice

The Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

 

The cost will be £5.00 if you know the 'registration' number of the Bill of Sale - (ask your lender for this information).

 

or - it will cost £40.00 if you send off for information without the registration number.

 

In all requests to the High Court of Justice you need to quote the BOS registration number, your loan reference number, your name and address and the name and address of the lender.

 

Where you make the request for a copy of the documents held due to the Bill of Sale showing a date that is outside the 7 days allowed by the BOS Act 1878 (as amended), I highly recommend that you ask the High Court to also confirm if an application has been made to 'rectify' - (The courts will understand exactly what you mean when you ask this question - so don't worry trying to explain the whole issue to them - just beg the question - besides the staff are not legally trained and would not be able to offer any interpretation of the 'validity' of the registration for you)

[pinkmoomin]

Hi Postggj

Appreciate firstly that a Bill of Sale on your car is not an 'Absolute Bill of Sale' it is a Bill of Sale offered as security - what this means is that - so long as they keep to their part of the contract (which is to meet all the laws of the BOS and the CCA and ensure all is correctly executed and duly signed and attested and 'rectified' if need be and give you the loan) and you keep to your part of the contract - which is to pay the instalments as set out and agreed upon) that so long as BOTH parties keep to THIER side of the Contract - all should be well and the CONDITION is that at the END of the Contract - they remove thier security over your car safe in the knowledge they have all the money loaned with agreed interest.

 

This interests me. Where the contract period has come to an end but money is still outstanding, a small sum on the original agreement and a larger sum in late payment charges, does the BOS still stand as it did during the agreement?

[applecart]

"This interests me. Where the contract period has come to an end but money is still outstanding, a small sum on the original agreement and a larger sum in late payment charges, does the BOS still stand as it did during the agreement?"

 

The contract period you speak of would be based on the terms on the CCA and also specified within the early paragraphs of the BOS - however, the question you pose is indeed an interesting one.......

 

My take on this would be that - whilst the contract may have ended - unless the lender takes the necessary steps to confirm with the High Court of Justice to inform them that they are removing the BOS from the register; it will remain.

 

Whether it would be considered an enforceable document at the end of the contract is one for a Judge to decide.

 

This may be a question to pose to the wider forum - there may be someone who has been in this position?

[pinkmoomin]

I don't have the papers to hand at present, but I'm sure they refer to something to do with 'term of the agreement' or similar. I'll have to see exactly what it says in a bit.

[pinkmoomin]

OK, here are a few extracts...

 

From BOS:

 

.. in consideration of the sum of £xxx.xx ("the principal sum" now paid by the Lender to the Borrower (receipt of which the Borrower hereby acknowledges) the Borrower does hereby assign unto the Lender and its assigns the vehicle described in the schedule ("the vehicle") by way of security for the payment of the sums in accordance with the credit agreement entered into between the Lender and the Borrower today ("the Consumer Credit Agreement". Such Consumer Credit Agreement includes the following provisions:

a) the sum secured is £xxx.xx [initial loan amt before interest etc]

b) the interest thereon at the rate of xx.xx per annum

AND the Borrower does further agree and declare:

1) Payment

That she will duly pay to the Lender the principal sum aforesaid, together with the interst then due and any other sums due in accordance with the terms of the Consumer Credit Agreement by equal payments of £xx.xx per week, commencing on xx/xx/08 and ending on xx/03/09

 

[.... goes off into stuff about keeping vehicle secure and insured etc and how they may break things to reposses it. ]

 

EXECUTED as a Deed by the said Borrower.

Signed by me and a LBL person.

 

 

 

From said Consumer Credit Agreement:

 

Key Financial Information

Term of Loan: 1 (58 weeks)

The Principle amount of the loan: £xxx.xx

Total Amout Payable £xxxx.xx

Equivalent to an Annual Percentage Rate of xxx.x% "APR"

By 58 equal instalments of £xx.xx each the first payable on the 7th day after the date of the Agreement and the rest on the same day in each successive week thereafter with a final payment of £xx.xx on the xx/03/09.

 

and

 

Security

The Agreement and the Total Amount payable under it is to be secured by a Bill of Sale in the form attached to this agreement by which you will assign to us the Vehicle details of which are set out in the Schedule below as well as in the Bill of Sale.

 

 

 

Any ideas?

[pinkmoomin]

Sorry to be rude, just wanted to bump the questions in the above 4 posts. I should also apologise for hijacking the thread with this!

 

LBL have sent a default in circumstances noted above. It's only a small amount of initial loan left which I can pay in the prescribed time, but the rest is charges - however terms specify all interest and charges paid first and initial loan last, so that'll be their way of keeping it secured on the car until the end.

 

I also understand that a default notice must be sent with a copy of the current OFT default information sheet with each default notice. I didn't receive that, just the letter. Don't suppose that's ground to tell them it's invalid??

 

On the other hand, I have had another company telling me that "as our agreement is at an end (also under CCA 1974, as a fixed term loan - no BOS), we are not required to serve a default notice" -completely the opposite to the what LBL are doing!

[postggj]

Pinkmoomin

Lbl Are **** Bags

Go On The Offensive With Them

A Creditor Cant Charge Interest On Charges Unless They Have First Notified You Of The Charge In Writing, And Only Then After 30 Days

 

Ask Them That And Go About Claiming Back These Charges And Interest Adjustment

 

They Will Prob Owe You Money

[pinkmoomin]

postggj - Nowhere did I say they're charging interest on charges.

 

I am trying to establish whether once the agreed term has come to an end, whether all clauses are still valid since they are initially based on an agreed term and dates.

 

I am quite aware that the late payment charges I've accrued may be able to be claimed back but I refuse to "go on the offensive" and risk losing my car over such a small amount and at this late stage. I'd rather do as others have done, clear it all off and THEN go for a rebate if it is applicable in my case.

[applecart]

Hi Pinkmoomin

 

I can see your confusion...... If the Company are saying that the Agreement is at an end - what they are really saying is that you are no more liable to its terms than they are...... therefore - no agreement - no issue? So What exactly is it that they want from you??

 

On the other hand - have a look at this part of the Act for existing contracts..........................

 

The CCA 1974 Act as amended makes provision for any agreement made up relying on the Act to adhere to it....

 

CCA 1974 Act Section 87 - Part Vii - Default & Termination

 

87 (1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with Section 88 (a default notice) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement -

a) to terminate the agreement or

b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

c) to recover possession of any goods or land or

d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred or,

e) to enforce any security

 

The above is not a stand alone provision - the lender has to comply with all relevant sections of the Act that relate to this section of the Law.

 

i.e section 88 (1) - a,b & c (2), (3), (4), (5),

also section 89, 90 (1) a, b,c

 

to name but a few....,..