M&S MONEY - no cca what now

[almond]

hi

i have started a thread ages ago about m&s cca and got a very bad copy of old storecard and new terms (i can't post scanner not working)

i have had a letter and call today saying i have 48 hours to ring

final demand

saying they want full payment within 48 hours usual standard letter

i need to know what letter to send saying they have not provided me

with

1 true copy of cca

2 i can't read the copy

3 its for my old storecard not new credit card

i don't want to get it wrong and send incorrect letter, i remember somebody on here said not to mention the storecard-credit card

not being the same

thanks in advance for help

[clemma]

There is this letter - you may need to amend it slightly (difficult for me to give exact letter as you are unable to scan and post what you have received).

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

xx/xx/2009

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter-dated xx/xx/2009 the contents of which are noted.

 

I note that you have included a copy of the document, which you aver to be the copy of the credit agreement between us

 

Now I wish to draw your attention to a series of concerns that I have with that document and why I feel that you have not discharged your duties under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The document received is headed "xxxxxxxxxx” within this first there are no prescribed terms as required by schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983 SI 1983/1553.

 

To avoid any argument, the prescribed terms for this style of agreement (running account credit) are as follows

 

1. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit,

 

2. A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement

 

3. A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Now im sure you are aware as per Wilson & FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 among others that if the prescribed terms are not in the agreement then the agreement is rendered unenforceable

 

 

To be honest I cannot tell as its not legible, infact even when blown up on the pc it is not legible and as a consequence I believe that the document fails to comply with Regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

For your information, I reproduce regulation 2(1) for your reference

 

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1)The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the .

 

Clearly as the document you have supplied is not easily legible you cannot say that you have discharged your obligations under section 78(1) as the document does not comply with the copy document regs referred to above

Now to quote your own words from paragraph 3 of your letter “this means in effect as long as the terms are clearly shown, the CCA requirements are satisfied” well im sorry but they are not as the second part of this document that you supplied in reply to my CCA request is not clearly legible

 

Now to resolve this matter you can either supply me a copy of my agreement, which is in a legible form where all the terms are clearly stated and the prescribed terms are embodied within the agreement

 

Or alternatively, we can lay the agreement which you have produced in reply to my statutory request pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 before the county court and I will request pursuant to section 142(1) of the CCA that the court make an order on the enforceability of that document.

 

However I am sure that the bank would not be keen on this happening as should the court rule that the agreement is not enforceable and you cannot provide a better copy than what you already have then the court would have no other option but to rule the agreement unenforceable

 

I think I have set out my position clearly and have even reproduced excerpts of the legislation on which I base my case, therefore I respectfully request that you reply to this letter within 14 days setting out if you can supply a more legible copy of the agreement or what action you propose to resolve this dispute if you cannot although the only real obvious option if you cannot provide a better copy would be for the bank to zero the balance on this debt as it cannot be enforced without a truly legible signed credit agreement containing the required prescribed terms

 

 

I await your reply

[citizenB]

Ok almond, your thread has now been moved to the new M&S forums

[seriously fed up]

Re 3, they are on very dodgy ground with anyone who has an &more credit card and was "transferred" to this without any further signed agreement. Have a read at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/199747-help-court-papers-m.html - only three pages so not too bad.

 

 

hi

i have started a thread ages ago about m&s cca and got a very bad copy of old storecard and new terms (i can't post scanner not working)

i have had a letter and call today saying i have 48 hours to ring

final demand

saying they want full payment within 48 hours usual standard letter

i need to know what letter to send saying they have not provided me

with

1 true copy of cca

2 i can't read the copy

3 its for my old storecard not new credit card

i don't want to get it wrong and send incorrect letter, i remember somebody on here said not to mention the storecard-credit card

not being the same

thanks in advance for help

[almond]

thanks

got an letter yesterday from moorcroft do i tell them i want a signed copy and have put account in dispute with m&s

[seriously fed up]

probably best to do both - put it in dispute with M&S, and advise Moorcroft of this as well.

Might be as well to advise that you dont consider the Storecard form to be anything like adequate support for the &more card. Remember, they will never admit they are wrong. Have a look at the url i directed you towards

[citizenB]

almond, the link below will take you to a letter that deals specifically with the situation you find yourself in.. ie Original Creditor passes on/sells an account whilst not having fully complied with a cca request.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

 

In the link in my signature you will CAG letter templates, you will find many other draft letters you can use for a variety of situations in respect of debt collection.

 

Hope this helps

[ODC]

subbing