Cab1ne-Lombard-Shoosmiths **Claim Recieved** - ***WON***

[citizenB]

just giving your thread a little nudge. The forums seem quite busy at the moment and the few people who would be able to answer your questions appear rund off their feet.

 

You say the FOS are involved, have they said anything yet ?

[citizenB]

Unfortunately, it is not in the remit of the FOS to rule on the enforceability or otherwise of an agreement, although this doesnt stop them advising you in such a manner that gives the Creditor/DCA hope that they are in the right. That is the remit of Trading standards and the OFT. who are equally as useless.. !

 

What you could do is amend the letter in Bankfordders thread and send it to the OFT and also make a complaint to the Trading Standards. Make sure with TS that you have a good working knowledge of the regulations so you can argue your side.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html

 

All you will receive from the OFT is a letter stating what the regulations are and that they are unable to assist an individual. However, they are apparently logging all complaint and when the receive sufficient for any particular company they are supposed to be looling into their fitness for re licencing.

[citizenB]

my major problems with the whole situation is

1.they defaulted me

2.they terminated me

3.they sent dca for supposed arrears

4.they resumed the contract (all by themselves)

5.they defaulted me again

6.they terminated me again.

 

i dont know weather i have been or im still coming lol!!

 

Ooh, is this correct, they have actually sent you 2 Default Notices and 2 Termination notices ?.. they cant do that

 

Any chance you can get them scanned in, minus your personal details and let us have a peek at the notices.. with any luck they will be full of flaws . Let battle commence.

[citizenB]

Right well the good news is that BOTH default notices are invalid.

 

The date on the 1st one is 12/07/2007 and they give you a remedy date of 26/07/2007. This is Exactly 14 days, unless they shoved this through your letter box or handed it to you personally on the 26th then they have not allowed the 2 days 1st class or 4 days 2nd class allowance for postage They then terminated you

 

Then strangely they seemed to think that you still had an agreement in force and Defaulted you again !!. To be able to issue you with the 2nd default notice, they would have needed to get you to sign another agreement.. you didnt, did you ??

 

The better news is that this 2nd Default notice is also invalid. DN date, 25/01/2008 - remedy date 08/02/2008, again exactly 14 days with no allowance as required by law for postage. They then proceeded to terminate you again. How can they Default and Terminate something that is no longer in existence having been terminated nearly 6 months previously !!.

 

You need the assistance of someone with more knowledge of what to do next than me. I will see if I can try and find someone to look in for you.

Edited February 13, 2009 by citizenB

[citizenB]

"brilliant"

its obvious i do need some sound and positive advice.

but as i have mentioned aswell they came to collect arrears on a terminated agreement. arrears for 7th sept 07 and 7th oct 07

 

I have asked a member of the site team to look in when he has a few moments. He doesnt appear to be on the forum at the moment, so dont be too disappointed if you dont get an answer this evening. Of course others might also pop in and advise.

[citizenB]

You might want to have a look at the thread linked below. Within that thread there is another link "Tale of A Dodgy DN".

 

Both should provide you with some interesting information.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/171718-creditor-has-sent-default.html

 

Thanks for looking in 42man x

[citizenB]

so just recapping on what i have got so far

 

1.Agreement unenforcable

2.default notices invalid

 

Does that make the termination notices "naughty" aswell ???

 

That's the way I read it:D TBH, I wouldnt have a clue how to go about processing the information. It might be a good idea to read a few threads where this has happened. I will try and find some links for you sometime tomorrow.

 

WOW!!!!!!!! ive pasted that into a word doc,

is surfaceagentx20 some kind of wizzard ?

 

Yup, he surely is. A long with quite a few other CAGers, who give their time and expertise.

 

If an agreement is defaulted in July due to some arrears & then terminated in August because one did not comply with the default notice. we all know what the creditor is allowed to do.

 

To avoid any confusion lets not go into any unenforceable agreements, invalid defaults, or terminations. Lets just assume they are all correct.

 

“The point”

The creditor states the payments fall due on the 7th of every month.

So as I pay the arrears for the July default notice & my regular payments, then along comes the 15th august the TERMINATION pops thru the letter box “gob smacked” stating that I had not complied with the first default notice due to still being in arrears for the 7th August,(a bit confusing I know but it is legal).

So I get in touch with the creditor, they tell me to pay the arrears of £1299 / late payment fee £100/ + agent fees totalling £1898 to the DCA & then they would renew my agreement. I then think £1299 for one months arrears is a bit steep, so I dispute their claim via their in house complaint procedures.

Anyway time passes by as my complaint is being sorted, along comes the 18th October & bingo the DCA is knocking at my door demanding the £1898. I then escort the DCA off my property & then ask him to produce his documentation which clearly points out that they are collecting for the arrears covering August (that’s “ok”) September (“dodgy”) October (“very dodgy”) & if I could’nt pay they would repo the vehicle, being totally stupid & not having any legal knowledge at all I paid them.

 

“The question”

As they terminated the agreement in august, what gives them the right or what laws do they have for them to collect arrears for sept/oct ??? & what can I do to fight back at them.

 

IMHO and if I read things correctly, once they have defaulted (invalid) and terminated then they have lost all their riights to collect monies which are due in the future. I will check out a few threads tomorrow and pop some links for you to have a look at.

[citizenB]

have brought your post above to the attention of site team.

[citizenB]

Reply from steven4064

 

 

Numbers are correct except I get 13.2%APR (within the allowed tolerance)

and nominal rate is12.5% not 10.36%.

 

THis latter is possibly enough to make it not properly executed. However, interest rate is not a prescribed term for enforcability under s127 provided bother monthly repayments and number of repayments are given. Therefore a court could enforce it even if not properly executed.

 

This is using Dualcalc.

[citizenB]

have asked for you..

[citizenB]

cab1ne, have you read these threads by surfaceagentx20 ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/155514-re-remedying-ineffective-default.html

 

HTH

[citizenB]

Aha, apologies.. will have a look and comment.

[citizenB]

Thank you for your letter dated 15th October 2009. “The Default Notice”, may I at this stage bring the following to your attention.

 

The only thing I would change is the above to..

 

 

"Your lette dated 15th October and headed "Default Notice", was received by me ????.

 

I would however, bring the following to your attention :"

 

 

 

There is no need to thank them for the letter, it might make them think you were pleased to receive it and send more:rolleyes:

[citizenB]

Nice one:D

[citizenB]

any suggestions please "edit or add"

 

I acknowledge your letter dated 21st October 2009, and the contents which are duly noted; at the end of my letter dated 17th October 2009 I suggested the following.

 

"If you are having problems in understanding any of the above letter, may I suggest that you seek further advice from your legal team or representatives before attempting any further actions or any further discussions with me."

 

As you have chosen not to seek any legal advice, I feel I should bring to your attention the following, regarding the Consumer Credit Act (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

 

In your first paragraph you have stated that you cannot agree with the assertion that the Notice of Default, dated 12th July 2007 was served in a way which deems the Notice, and thus the Agreement unenforceable. This has absolutely nothing to do with the enforceability or unenforceability of an agreement.

My last letter dated 17th October 2009, pointed out the innacuracies of the Default Notice and the Termination Notice.

 

The Default Notice dated 12th July 2007 was issued after that piece of legislation was amended as follows:

The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2006

 

The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 88(1) and 182(2) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Citation, commencement and interpretation

1. This Order may be cited as the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2006 and shall come into force on 19th December 2006.

 

Amendment of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

2. The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 shall be amended as follows.

 

 

3. In Schedule 2 in paragraphs 3©, 3(d) and 6 for the words "not less than seven days" substitute "not less than fourteen days".

 

 

Ian McCartney

Minister of State for Trade, Investment and Foreign Affairs Department of Trade and Industry

 

18th November 2006

 

 

 

EXPLANATORY NOTE

 

 

These Regulations amend the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983. They provide that default notices served under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 shall specify—

(a)that where action is required to be taken by the debtor or hirer to remedy the breach or pay compensation, this action shall be taken within not more than 14 days after the service of the notice; and

 

(b) where no such action is required to be taken, the date on or after which the creditor or owner intends to take action, must not be less than 14 days from the date of the notice.

 

As for the Termination Notice, that speaks for its self “Terminated”

ter·mi·nate

v. ter·mi·nat·ed, ter·mi·nat·ing, ter·mi·nates

 

terminated - (of e.g. a contract or term of office) having come to an end

 

May I also suggest that due to the postal strikes, it would be acceptable to correspond via email as it would be easier. My email is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

cheers cab

 

Couple of tweaks in blue. Other than that, it sets out your position accurately and invites them to fully update the legal requirements in their organisation:D

[citizenB]

I am not able to advise on this one, cabine. However, I will bring both this and post 240 to the attention of the site team for you. Meanwhile you could try and track down someone like postggi, pedross they may be able to help.

[citizenB]

i am aware that the agreement does have a problem but

 

"IMPROPERLY EXECUTED OR UNENFORCEABLE":eek:

 

cab

 

I simply dont know the answer. Hopefully someone will be along soon but everyone seems to be quite busy today so it might be a little while yet.

[citizenB]

That is a big step you are taking cab1ne.. Best of luck