Virgin Card - Mbna Cca Is It Valid??

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi bozalt,

 

Am new to this site, but have been following Angel and Muffintop's threads as OH going through very similar hassles with MBNA. Don't worry as OH has just received very similar letter stating that he should have a copy of agreement and it should have been retained for his records!! Lol Seems to be a new tactic - they ignore everything and do what they like. Have filed their letter

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi bozalt

 

We've had another new letter from MBNA to follow on from the calls (getting less though as OH has dug his heels in and will not entertain them over the 'phone and was even asked by one munchkin if she could state he was 'difficult' - his reply was 'do what you like'). 1st postcard received last week, which was misleading as no-one appeared Latest letter is a Notice of Sums in Arrears, appears to be formal but is actually just a statement in another form and enclosing information sheet from Office of Fair Trading about arrears. Our dispute started over unfair charges and dubious practices but MBNA do not recognise any of it, claim there is no dispute, and say CCA is valid despite being illegible in quite few places! I think it is going to be a cat and mouse waiting game as no-one is giving an inch. We wouldn't have had the knowledge or guts to do this without coming across this site and reading all the experiences of so many others and taking bits and bobs of info to press on with our complaint. Next step now I think is going to be a request for a personal visit to Chester to view the 'best copy they have available' which could pose a problem from them if what they have sent is their 'best copy'. I don't ever remember actually receiving any type of agreement, it was only ever an application and then bang - the card was sent through. Do any other caggers remember different - have MBNA messed up big time here? Anyway will try and start my own thread - 3 months of reading others (wonderful people - thank you!) it's about time! Did you find out whether over £5K would makes a difference to a court claim?

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi bozalt

 

We've not sent a harrassment letter yet - but logging all the calls (4 automated today - they seem to have given up with the 'personal' as no chance getting anything by way of payment or security questions out of OH) and letting them dig a hole.

 

They have been adding interest and charges since the account was placed in dispute and it seems that they will just continue to ignore what suits them. Sent letter quoting Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to them but that has been ignored too. We're now waiting until they can send either a better copy which is legible or take their chance through a court, which OH is prepared to do. An interesting point, a new card was sent recently AFTER account was placed in dispute (which of course was not activated) - now they are asking for cards to be sent back!! Have not sent them back after reading advice not to - but it does not look good for them being 'responsible' lenders now does it

 

Best of luck too!

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi bozalt,

 

Don't worry - look at the wording in their letter - 'if', 'could', 'may' - these are all threats clearly designed to make you as the reader panic. MBNA DO NOT acknowledge anything and there is no option to correspond with them EXCEPT to make a payment. They are only interested in taking a payment and NOTHING else and are a law unto themselves. Unfortunately this does not wash with most of us here who now know a bit more about CCA Agreements that we did in the beginning of our dealings with them.

 

They will never acknowledge a clear dispute (there is no 'agreed dispute' in our case according to them if we agreed then it wouldn't be a dispute now would it? )

 

This is why they are so keen to get you on the 'phone and not by letter so that they can say anything they like to get you flustered. I used to be terrified of anything like this until I realised their arrogance and what they will resort to. It is not professional behaviour at all. The fact remains that your application form does not look completely legible. It also has the limits stated £1000, £3000, £5000 etc when your credit limit shows £4000 - doesn't this make it incorrect (correct me if I'm wrong anyone - I'm still learning) and no amount of blustering by them in the form of threats to claim or charge your home, harrassing telephone calls etc changes anything if it is incorrect. Just stick to the facts and don't let them bully you otherwise. I was a nervous OH too but now giving OH 100% support as I am shocked, but not surprised at how low they will stoop. The other threat always quoted is the credit file entry - we've given up worrying about that now as they will do it anyway and that is another organisation seemingly working hand in hand and making oodles of cash by selling your info on.

 

Only a Judge can decide what they threaten and it 'might' 'possibly' 'could' just go in YOUR favour if they are unable to produce a valid agreement. :grin:

 

In our case, the ball has been passed back to them to produce a legible agreement - OH is prepared to abide by a Judge's decision if they choose to go that far. Any good advice anyone?

 

Stay focused :grin:

x

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi bozalt,

 

Yes they really are cheeky! I wouldn't trust them at all - if it's not in writing as a full and final settlement it will be a never ending story. It wouldn't look good for them in court if you can show you were willing to offer and then they couldn't confirm F&F. I wonder what a judge would make of that? They will never leave you alone unless you stand up to them now.

 

I would be inclined to take the view that if they were stupid enough not to take the previous offer of 2k - they may well end up with nothing at all as your 'agreement' still looks dodgy to me! I am of course not an expert on any of it yet - but there are some very knowledgable people on here that are. I've started a thread now if anyone wants to have a look at what MBNA sent OH for his 'agreement'.

 

Thanks to all, keep smiling and enjoy the holiday - we all have the upper hand with dodgy agreements!

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi Bozalt

 

If they refer to 'agreement' then I would say DN is invalid. We received a copy of current t&c when we requested CCA - no originals sent but have found 3 different sets of originals (probably from old accounts) in amongst our own paperwork. Paragraph 8 is different in all 3 but there is no way of knowing which set relates to which account and definitely nothing linking any of them them to disputed account.

 

So how can MBNA prove what was sent to you with so many different t&c for different cards? It's even less likely that they kept copies of these. Also, am I right in thinking t&c not the same as prescribed terms which must be on the same document? So if no paragraph 8 on agreement = invalid DN Ho ho - Chester Towers must be in a right old pickle - made a mess of my filing system with just 3 sets.

[ifoughtthelaw]

I don't think MBNA have kept copies of card carriers as no-one seems to have had these in response to CCA request? This is what I can't seem to understand - the application was made then card was sent out attached to carrier. Where in the process was a proper agreement made with both parties signing same document? I don't have a copy of the application and MBNA don't have a copy of the card carrier. We have kept card carriers too but they are flawed for the same reason as application form as toto says.

 

 

x

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi Bozalt,

 

I'm waiting for a SAR from them too for my own account - 40 days is up and heard nothing from them except a few calls from RMA - I sent them back to MBNA as they haven't a clue about any letters when asked and I won't confirm my details until they have my letter to hand . Gail Powell (multi-talented tasker at MBNA) promised a full reply by 1st April and I'm still waiting........

 

I'm expecting them to stall with a request for more ID but have been thinking. If they want to play these games I'm going to reply asking to visit their office to confirm myself IN PERSON with ID as I do not wish to send this through the post. At the same time, they can let me see my original agreement and take away a copy saving them postage in the process. Neither they nor a Judge could argue that you hadn't tried your best!

 

They're happy to send you statements, defaults, open postcards for the postman to view, leave messages with minor children (yes really) and work colleagues but not believe who you are when you ask for a SAR!

[ifoughtthelaw]

alimehmet

 

It is not about not paying the bill. In my case I've paid mine plus charges and huge interest 100% on time for many years. When it came to raising a complaint about a £12 charge, we realised that for quite some time we had been tucked up by MBNA in several ways. They have been quite disgraceful in their treatment of the consumer and play by no rules whatsoever. The CCA 1974 was designed to protect me as a consumer and if in the process of making the complaint I realised as a consumer that the bank has not done their job properly, why shouldn't I be able to challenge this if the law is there for me to do so? I haven't stolen anyone's money and nor did I set out to! Everyone has a different set of circumstances on here - but this is not the place to judge, just offer help in whatever way you can.

 

If the boot was on the other foot and you had paid for PPI for years, you can bet your life they would be finding a way out of paying you should you need to claim on it through no fault of your own! I would say that these threads are for friends helping friends - start your own thread for your comments!

 

Sorry Bozalt for hijacking!

[ifoughtthelaw]

How pompous they are! Sending letters clearly to make you think legal action is happening and then acting smug as you like when you respond. As I understand it, the 1983 regs allow them to leave out certain things in the copy so they hide their failings behind these rules as well as section 78 request, when they tell you that they have fulfilled their obligations. They might have done that, but it doesn't necessarily make the agreement enforceable. Why do they go to all this trouble when they could just give you a copy of the agreement in its entire form? It must be because the agreements are faulty and they know it. There was a very good thread from steven4064 here Consumer Credit Agreements - a guide to enforceability which made good sense and helped it slowly sink in for me!

 

Only thing I'm not sure about is the CPR thing, what is the difference between 31.14 and 31.16 and do we only use this route when legal action is actually started as they seem to be saying - anybody please help with this one?

 

I would wait for your SAR and see if what they send is any different to your CCA request. If you've used a template from on here then you should get other info too, like a record of all the calls, but they mess around with this too from what I'm reading on here.

 

Hi ho.......hi ho......it's off to MBNA we go.....

 

Enjoy the rest of the weekend- don't let them spoil it!

[ifoughtthelaw]

Hi Bozalt

 

Citizen B - you are a lovely calming influence helping to keep us all on the right track! Having a bit of a wobble myself today having just received my SAR stuff that I will need to go through carefully.

 

Bozalt - I was going to argue the same point as you but I'm not sure now - the application copy was so small it wasn't legible in most parts but when scanned and enhanced larger on a computer I can see there are faults.

 

What I'm wondering now is what is the best way to present this should it go before a court? Is it better to stick with 'it is not legible' and let them prove otherwise, or do you point out the faults from the beginning and take the chance a court would agree? Can we argue 'computer aided' legibility?

 

Just about keeping my head above the water - this site is the lifeline!