Am feeling a little lonely on this thread!!! Witness statements now exchanged. Any advice please on 1) Filing a pre-trial checklist - does the court send this or do you get the form yourself and submit. Also - does the other side get copy? 2) How do you ask for the claimant's witness to attend court in person? Thanks, any help appreciated. x

Can anyone tell me what is the procedure when you submit a witness statement for the main trial? Do you need to re-copy everything which has already been submitted and referred to as exhibits in the summary judgment? The witness statement is the same apart from a couple of points taken out as they are no longer relevant and a couple of points added in to reflect updated events. Any help appreciated - next stage for us is pre-trial checklist. Does the court send you this? x

Can anyone point me in the right direction - should I attach copies of exhibits in mentioned in further witness statement for the main trial if the witness statement is the same (except for updated events at the end) as it was at the summary judgement? All copies were attached then, do I need to do it all again? Thanks

Update: Claimants did attach paperwork on amended claim and OH submitted an amended defence. Had a claims management hearing and both parties are directed to exchange witness statements by next week. Do all the exhibits referred to OH the witness statement have to be copied again and attached to witness statement. copy to court and claimant etc? They were submitted and attached to the witness statmement for the Summary Judgement. How does it work for the main trial? The facts have not changed and there are a couple of alterations at the end taking into account recent facts. What is the correct procedure here? Thanks for any help please!!

Fantastic thread Vjohn, I'm subbing to support your epic battle as we are in the same boat! I hope to see them fall on their sword of truth on Wednesday! Good luck with it, IFTL x

xx

Thanks Vjohn - I will have a read of that. Rhodium - yes, it was a witness statement from the claimant's employee verified with a statement of truth from the solicitors. The statement is/was false, and only done to get them out of a tight corner on another point. It was produced at the door of the SJ hearing and allowed in by the judge (despite protest). So now having produced it, it's going to backfire on them as it can be proved false. The problem is how to put it and it becomes tempting to say it strongly, but yes I agree it should be as diplomatic as possible and let the judge decide. Thanks again, good calming advice.

I know we don't mention it and certainly not in court but...... What are the consequences for a claimant who introduces new evidence during proceedings that can be proved false and it becomes clear the claimant had known it all along but had tried to twist their way out of it? Is this misleading or deceiving and how do you put it to the court?

Hi Bozalt, How did it go - what did you decide to do in the end and have you signed anything yet? IFTL x

Sorry to hear this didn't go well for you Pipster and their behaviour is outrageous. This happened to us - Restons WS not served beforehand and never seen before the SJ hearing - Restons barrister even had the cheek to ask the court to hang on 5 mins after the hearing should have started while the fax was coming through......judge agreed and accepted it into the court despite protest from defendant (OH) who got told off!!!!! Then SECOND time a copy of t & c never seen before was pulled out at directions and allocation hearing - judge didn't know how to accept it in so allowed them to go away and amend POC instead..... Their costs shedule was posted day before the SJ which they had at court but arrived at our house the day after the hearing - so not seen until the day. So it seems REstons have FORM and are doing this all too often. Their own headed notepaper says in bold at the bottom 'Please note - we do NOT accept service of documents or proceedings by fax or e-mail.' They would be the first to complain if you tried it the other way round! How are they getting away with this - what can we all do to complain and who do we complain to? You must appeal somehow Pipster.

Any thoughts anyone?

Still awaiting amended poc by Roystons. Anyone had any experience of them amending a claim? If a claim is amended, will they have to attach all documents this time as it will not be coming though Northampton bulk centre? Thanks all

Hello All, an update and some more advice needed please if anyone can help. At the summary judgment hearing, the claimant tried dirty tricks outside the court and presented a witness statement unseen beforehand. My OH would not accept this but the barrister went in anyway and presented it in court where it was accepted by the judge. OH protested it was not served properly and he was not given a copy. It got heated and he ended up annoying the judge who gave him a long lecture! This was their intention to simply fluster a LIP who does not know the procedures well enough. However, the judge eventually agreed condition 11 was not the same on the front and back of the document and it was an irregularity. Judge agreed with OH that Data protection had not been signed and copy of the recent terms and conditions were meaningless. So she just about allowed the summary judgment in OH favour. It is worth noting though that a lot of the defence had not really been read through by the judge who viewed it right from the start as 'well you've had the money.' When the judgment came through there was no mention of costs although the judge had agreed OH could have them, (then got distracted and went on to something else.) OH queried this and the court said to write in which we did and then we got a letter back saying no costs as it should have been dealt with at the time and the judge had concluded matters. So once again the Claimant was laughing in our face and got off the costs as OH didn't know the procedures well enough and had a judge who was clearly in their favour from the start. OH just had a Directions and allocation hearing and guess what? Outside the court for the SECOND TIME, OH was presented with another piece of paper showing an undated COPY of terms and conditions (from supposedly the time the account was opened that WOULD have been given at the time) UNSEEN until then. Same procedure, in they go and it gets shown to the judge (no copy to OH) - judge says I don't know how to introduce this now, OH says I'm not accepting as never seen it before and not been served on me and also isn't this a directions and allocation hearing and not the trial? Judge says well you've had the money (again) OH says Wilson, and it's not about that (claimant had varied the account in an underhanded way) - judge says 'the trouble is you are not a solicitor Mr.....' Judge then says well the claimant can amend his claim, and by the way (to the claimant) that means you can apply for another summary judgment. :confused: HOW ON EARTH CAN THIS BE CORRECT? OH should then amend his defence (does that mean he can't now counterclaim if he chooses to?) and must give his reasons as to why he has a defence with condition 11. HOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE ISSUES? Is he now restricted to only what the judge is directing? This seems to be letting the claimant off the hook and allowing them to do whatever they like whilst OH is not being allowed to defend his case:x:x Please anyone, what do we do next when we receive their amended POC? Does it all just start again? Should we be looking at getting legal representation when the courts are CLEARLY against LIP's and give so much leeway to the legally represented party who know the score? Thanks and have a good Easter all

Hi again Still nothing from the Optimists - does anyone know if they are in contempt of court if they don't comply with the tomlin order? What would the procedure be if they don't forward the payment that was agreed and signed in front of the judge after OH agreed to counterclaim being dismissed? Can the counterclaim be re-instated? Where do we start from again, is it back to square 1 (here we go again) Thanks all

Thanks Elsa and Underdog for your congrats, but it now seems I was premature in posting that this was all done and dusted! The claimant has not adhered to a tomlin order which they themselves prepared and was signed by all in front of the judge who directed them to make a payment to my OH by xxxdate. As this date has now passed what happens if they haven't complied? Does it invalidate the tomlin order? Thanks all, it's so tedious all this game playing! xx

Good luck for tomorrow Bozalt whatever happens, hopefully you get a decent judge who knows the law!! xx

Hello All and an update The small claims hearing has been heard and my OH WON! The defence was extremely strong having carefully prepared the case in response to the POC. The claimant's case was proved totally wrong, which they had bluffed was right for over a year. OH had told them and told them it was wrong and still they continued with this claim. It only dawned on them from the submission of OH's written statement and evidence (timescales followed by the court's order not Optima's) what a complete exposure it was going to be for them in front of the judge. I don't believe they ever had any intention of going to court as they tried to discontinue two weeks before the court date. They went into panic mode last week trying every antic and trick to get us to discontinue the counterclaim, including making phone threats of 'we will get a court order' (for what I don't know and how can you get a court order if you are not going to court?) They tried again outside the court door to get OH to not go into the hearing and sign their paperwork to discontinue without seeing the judge. OH was by this stage only satisfied to go in before the court. In court, the case started with Optima admitting they had nothing. It took a couple of hours to talk over various other points and the judge was fair. It was the right decision to go in front of the court in this case as it was decided by the judge and left them no room for more tricks or a further claim. Both MBNA and Optima's conduct in this case is less than professional and that is being polite on an open forum! Case closed! (Except for letter to SRA - one of many I believe)

Hi Bozalt, Why should the hearing be adjourned and what grounds would they have for asking for this? When they say in light of your defence, they must think you have a valid point for them not to want to go into court. I would have thought that they should have made any written offers in terms settlement well before the court date. Too late now. If they've brought the case, shouldn't they withdraw in which case does that give you grounds for wasted costs? I would turn up at your court time and get in front of the judge. Don't be tricked by any mind games that Shoos barrister/solicitor will try and pull on you. It's designed to throw you off course and you will get it right up to the courtroom door! Any advice anyone?

Optima love to put dates in their letters to make them seem 'official' as though you MUST comply. Take no notice of any artificially set dates Optima put in any letters. We stuck to what was required from the court only and kept that in mind as they have tried to trick us big time, on more than one occasion. However, the courts seem to be very lenient on their dates when it comes to claimants like the banks. We have been threatened with all of the same and after the first trick was spotted refused after that to agree to anything. I would say after our experience with them (not over yet - due in court next week) you are actually safer and better off going to court with this lot than signing anything before court as you will find mistake after mistake being made by them which builds nicely into your defence. Some of their mistakes are utterly jaw dropping. Keep a close eye on every bit of detail as you know your case far better than they do. They've marked your letter without predjudice, I thought that meant they can't bring the letter to the court's attention? Quite laughable to read the bit about they've read your defence and you have no prospects of succeeding, um...I thought it was the Judge's job to do that?

Yes be careful people about denying the debt. The judge in the summary judgment of my OH's MBNA account B case said right at the start "Well you've had the money" (with a look of what are you going to do about that then?) OH quoted judge's comments about it being deemed a gift in Wilson v First county - judge said hmmmmmmm........and made no further comment. In the claimant's statement it read "defendant does not deny the existence of the card nor the substantial expenditure on it" No he didn't deny it - as it has NEVER been the argument! As it was he won the argument with a very difficult judge who only took notice when OH used his understanding of the Data Protection Act in relation to condition 11 being different on back of the 2nd page!!! Judge said it was a discrepancy, and agreed with OH that he hadn't therefore signed any Data Protection. Just be prepared for everything and stick with the facts of your own case. They seem to drop themselves in it far more when you tell the truth!

Well done! Subbing with interest. x

We **Won** the Summary Judgment but case far from over. Not won easily and cannot post too many details yet as need to claim the costs and tie up some (serious) loose ends. Bankerrhymeswith was RIGHT about their slithering tricks. Can anyone help? How do we go about claiming our costs after the hearing, as Judge was willing to award our costs but it got overlooked at the end as distracted. Have confirmation from the court that the application for summary judgment is dismissed but nothing else. What happens now? Thanks x

Hi Bozalt I saw this yesterday from PT thread - it's exactly how we did a witness statement in the end. We got one in quick after Christmas after receiving summary judgment application Christmas card from Restons! We just stated the facts as they were from start to finish, and included all factual points of our argument, such as not legible (although judge disagreed with this but then had trouble reading a whole line) OH was in court yesterday and won (eventually) after a bad start! Posting up some details on my thread a bit later.... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html#post2695725

Well my complements of the season and wishing you all a Merry Christmas. Restons have decided to resurrect it (after months of doing nothing) just before Christmas! Submitted our AQ and now just got a copy of their application for summary judgement with a hearing date in Jan. I'm preparing a witness statement ready to forward to them and the Court for early Jan, can anybody just give an idea as to what needs to be included, I've drafted a list of the facts as they've happened but do I work this into the holding defence or keep it separate? What else do you include for a witness statement in a summary judgement? Ta all x

Same here, my student daughter only 19 and very new to financial independence used the so-called free check online as she thought someone else had made a credit card application application in her name. We missed the 30 day deadline as it was hard to find any info about cancelling once signed up so got a £6.99 charge. I was furious at how hard it was to find the number and so quickly cancelled with an e-mail from her which they would not accept. I didn't know this until the next month when we got another £6.99 charge!! I had the hugest row with them too but they wouldn't budge so I asked for a copy of their terms and conditions to be e-mailed - they didn't send it and nothing came so went back onto the website for another round of hours searching just about every page going. It was there, but VERY WELL HIDDEN! The cancellation number to call is within the depths of their website on purpose and they must be conning thousands of people like this. They don't want you to find it easily. I would never ever repeat this experience online again, get any copies of your credit file in writing for the £2 charge but only if you have to. You give them less personal info too with a paper application, online they want just about everything which is a great little bonus for them when they start selling off your info on lists to loan companies to target you with fake claims of a loan having been applied for. This happened to my daughter too who got totally confused when a dodgy loan company started calling her about a loan she'd made. :-? I took the next call from them and when questioned they eventually confirmed they had got her info from Experian.