Car taken yesterday

[Markiemark1]

Well there's a surprise!!!! Su - I think the court will be most interested in this, and 5th January leaves not much time, for either party...I'll try to help as much as I can.

 

RM

[Su76]

Thanks!!

 

Do you think i should contact the dca and ask for them to deliver my car back as it wasn't within their right to take it so soon & without the warrant being issued???

 

Or is it wise to not contact them? My only worry is the car is at belle vue auctions already and i dont want it sold!!

[Markiemark1]

I think you should certainly tell them that there is a further hearing on Monday. I think you should possibly hold on as it may be that you've got quite a big claim against them. Potentially we should be considering bringing in Close Consumer Finance as a party to the proceedings as they have acted illegally.

 

I would be tempted to ask VW for a breakdown of all monies paid, then tell them you are going to seek the return of that amount due to the illegal repossession of protected goods, and will also be seeking damages for trespass etc. However, on an entirely without prejudice basis you may be willing to negotiate, but that any negotiations will have to be backed up by a Consent Order. That should give them a good New Years Eve.

 

I'll be online most of the night so feel free to correspond, and you have my number if you need it.

 

RM

[Su76]

ok..so at this stage should i not be worried about the car being sold at auction?? ....

 

and just concentrate on the fact that - either way i will get the car back or i will be claiming all the money back that i have paid off it?

[Markiemark1]

If it was me I would telephone, speak to a supervisor and advise them of the hearing on the 5th. I would point out that they have repossessed the car illegally and that you will be making those representations to the Judge, but don't give away to much. I would say that it would be very foolish of them to dispose of the vehicle, as they should not be in possession of it. I would perhaps point out to them that your remedy in Law is to seek the return of monies paid. But do say to them (making sure you tell them that it is on a without prejudice basis) in return for the return of the vehicle at their expense, you will be delighted to continue payments to the vehicle under the terms that you would have sought had you had the opportunity to make representations to the Court.

 

If you can post some more details (and perhaps pm me figures (balance, arrears, current monthly instalment and how many months left on agreement) I'll put something together.

 

RM

[Su76]

If it was me I would telephone, speak to a supervisor and advise them of the hearing on the 5th. I would point out that they have repossessed the car illegally and that you will be making those representations to the Judge, but don't give away to much. I would say that it would be very foolish of them to dispose of the vehicle, as they should not be in possession of it. I would perhaps point out to them that your remedy in Law is to seek the return of monies paid. But do say to them (making sure you tell them that it is on a without prejudice basis) in return for the return of the vehicle at their expense, you will be delighted to continue payments to the vehicle under the terms that you would have sought had you had the opportunity to make representations to the Court.

 

If you can post some more details (and perhaps pm me figures (balance, arrears, current monthly instalment and how many months left on agreement) I'll put something together.

 

RM

 

 

Ok, i will post it to you within the next hr

 

thanks again

[postggj]

may i ask who was the dca

not butting in repoman

if this car was taken illegally as it appears, you are entitled to receive back every penny you paid

[Su76]

may i ask who was the dca

not butting in repoman

if this car was taken illegally as it appears, you are entitled to receive back every penny you paid

 

 

Yes sure it is - close credit management

[postggj]

this company has jumped the gun a few times that i know of

it will take time but i will try and locate the threads

[Su76]

If it was me I would telephone, speak to a supervisor and advise them of the hearing on the 5th. WHO THE DCA CO OR VW????

 

Total amount payable on 30/11/06 = 17.073.80 ...inc 2.943.80 interest

Cash price = 14.130.00

Advance payment = 4.935.00

Monthly payments = 199

 

Arrears @ 27/08/08 = 597.69

 

total amount paid 27/08/08 = 8.247.68

 

Paid DCA 450pound in Nov/Dec 08

 

im not sure but i may of also paid finance Co few hundred in Sept/Oct

[Su76]

i think i had another 3yrs left to pay

[Su76]

Also can you confirm that in my default notice it states

"THE CREDITOR MAY NOT TAKE BACK THE GOODS AGAINST YOUR WISHES UNLESS HE GETS A COURT ORDER. IF HE DOES TAKE THEM BACK WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT OR A COURT ORDER, YOU MAY HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET BACK ALL THE MONEY YOU HAVE PAID UNDER THE AGREEMENT.

 

Is the court order the same as a court warrant ??

[Markiemark1]

post ggj - yep, that's exactly the point I've been making. However Su is I think indicating she really wants the car back, so in terms of negotiating I suggested tell VW or the DCA - whoever or both really - that she wants her money back but may on a w/p basis be prepared to negotiate.

 

The Court has given the Order (we presume as no-one has seen it) that you return the vehicle. However, as I have said before if you do not return the vehicle then they have to get a warrant issued by the Court which is issued to the County Court bailiff...who will then execute it.

 

Su - what is the basis of your application that is being heard on the 5th?

 

RM

[Su76]

post ggj - yep, that's exactly the point I've been making. However Su is I think indicating she really wants the car back, so in terms of negotiating I suggested tell VW or the DCA - whoever or both really - that she wants her money back but may on a w/p basis be prepared to negotiate.

 

The Court has given the Order (we presume as no-one has seen it) that you return the vehicle. However, as I have said before if you do not return the vehicle then they have to get a warrant issued by the Court which is issued to the County Court bailiff...who will then execute it.

 

Su - what is the basis of your application that is being heard on the 5th?

 

RM

 

The reason i went to court today is to apply for another hearing, so that my side of the story can be heard. I filled the N244 form in and stating i was late attending the hearing on the 17th Dec & wanted a them to hear my side of things also wanting to ask for a time order or suspended order, due to only just getting back into full time employment.

 

I didn't know until today that a warrant hadn't been issued, and didn't really know where i stood with this!!

 

I am understanding that i may have a claim to get all my money back, but dont know this for sure!!

 

Hence the reason why i am mithered about the car being sold at auction!!

[Su76]

i appreciate any advice on this i really do!

 

Any further advice will be greatly appreciated,as atm i am a bit confused to my rights & what is going to happen.

[Markiemark1]

ok, give me a call tomorrow morning if you can (or now if you want to!!) i can explain exactly what the situation is and what we need to do for Monday's hearing!

[Su76]

ok, give me a call tomorrow morning if you can (or now if you want to!!) i can explain exactly what the situation is and what we need to do for Monday's hearing!

 

 

ok is tommorow okay ?? thanks

[Markiemark1]

tomorrow is fine - have a good sleep - i'm just about to lol!

 

RM

[Su76]

Repoman

 

I haven't had the time to call you, i have family staying over! and would prefer not to discuss this in front of them.

 

If you could post me some information about what to do next... that would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

 

All the best

[Markiemark1]

No problem Su76.

 

Will do some research and come up with something for you this afternoon and evening. Will post it on here ok?

 

Hope you had an ok New Year - and HNY to everyone on the board.

 

RM

[Markiemark1]

Hi Su

OK, as I understand the situation based on the posts on here you had a vehicle on finance with VW Finance, although more recently the matter has been dealt with by Close Credit Management. Presumably they are acting as agents for Close though, as you state that on the court paperwork the claimant is shown as Volkswagen Finance. So ultimately they are responsible for the conduct of the proceedings.

There was a hearing listed for earlier in the month, which due to parking problems, you missed as you arrived late and thus the matter had already been heard. As a result of this no doubt a Return of Goods Order was made, although we don’t know whether this was a forthwith (i.e. immediately) order or one to return the goods after 28 days.

You have not yet received a copy of this Order but it is clear from the figures you have kindly provided that you had paid over 1/3 of the total amount payable, and thus the goods are protected by virtue of the Consumer Credit Act. This means that the goods cannot be repossessed from you without a Court Order.

There are two ways in which this can be tackled. You have applied for a re-hearing so that you can put your point across, and from what you have said you would be seeking a time order, which effectively is where the Court would allow you time to pay. This is usually done by granting the claimant the right to the return of the goods, but suspending the return upon payment of the balance over a period of time. I have no doubt that had you managed to get to court you would have succeeded in obtaining this but it would be worth going on Monday, if it is your intention that you want the car back, with a budget plan completed to show to the Court that you can pay. Explain to the Judge that you have not received a copy of the Order and had intended to apply to vary it once you had received it as you wished to clear the arrears over a period of time (presuming of course that you can maintain the monthly instalments).

VW Finance, through their agents, have pre-empted the situation by asking their agents to repossess the vehicle. The goods are in my opinion still protected even with the Court Order, which in any event you have not been served with and apparently not even shown by the Agents who repossessed the vehicle. To repossess protected goods is a breach of Section 90 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and in doing so the Agreement is terminated (although this should have already been done by the creditor) and all payments made under the Agreement are returnable to the debtor, who is also relieved of any further liability under the Agreement. There are three exceptions to this, although only one applies here – and that is that if the creditor does not contravene S90 if you consented to the creditor repossessing the goods. Even then the consent would not be effective unless you knew or were informed of your rights if consent was refused and the appropriate case law is set out in Chartered Trust v Pitcher (1987 CA). Those rights would be to allow you to ask the Court to reorganise your repayments and let you retain possession under a time order.

The creditor may argue of course that they have indeed obtained a Court Order. However, you have not received this and so have been unable to comply with this. The correct means of enforcing a return of goods order is to wait for the time specified on the order to expire, and then to apply to the court for a warrant of delivery. At this time a County Court Bailiff (not a repossession agent or Certificated Bailiff) will attend at the property by appointment in an attempt to recover the property. The bailiff has the right to go onto private property to repossess the goods, unlike private repossession agents who cannot trespass. Most usually the Bailiff will take possession and hand the property to an agent for the creditor. Now, what VW Finance and their agents have done here is to circumvent that by attending and persuading you, by hook or by crook, to hand over the vehicle praying on the fact that you are not aware of your rights.

So, legally I believe you are entitled to the return of all the monies paid under the terms of the Agreement. However, I get the impression from your postings that you actually just want the car returned and to be allowed to continue your payments. If this is the case you should ask the judge to vary the return of goods order that we presume was made previously to a suspended return of goods order, but that you should also seek that the vehicle be returned to you immediately without charge, any fees and costs added to your account in respect of the recovery of the vehicle be removed and your costs of the application be also payable by VW finance within 28 days. It may help to have a copy of the case that I have quoted and I’ll try to track one down which I can send on to you.

I hope that helps, but if you have any questions contact me through here or on the number previously given.

RM

[Su76]

Thanks for all this information above....I have pm you

[jackieandwayne]

Repoman and Su,

 

Re the bit - the bit about surrendering the keys to these guys - don't know if this is the same but if a tenant dumps a set of keys at my office, or just gives them to me, it is accepted as a surrender of tenancy. Other times I can just agree a surrender with them. I could not insist that a tenant surrenders keys to me and I wouldn't.

 

But if it is the same principal in this case, then Su didn't surrender her keys voluntarily - it was under duress as she was told the police were on their way! As well as not having a clue what was going on in the first place.

 

Hope this helps, and best of luck - I'll keep reading.

[Su76]

Thank you JackieandWayne:)

 

Repoman

 

Just a few more questions as the day gets closer im getting really nervous..

Whats it like in the court rooms? roughly how many people are @ the hearings? im worried the judge will tear me to pieces!!

 

Should i write down a defence statement so that i can hand it to somebody?

 

Cheers

[jackieandwayne]

Su, don't be nervous of the court . I have to go to County several times a week so I'm used to it now, but there was a time when i was terrified - this old boy I used to work with told me always to smile at the judge and say good mornng - sets them up good as everyone going in is usually downright miserable!

 

It's nothing like a criminal court, the judge will sit in his little room round a table, at the head, you on one side, other party on the other. He will record what is going on but this shouldn't worry you. A decent judge will know you are not a legal expert and should assist you where he/she can.

 

One more little tip - deep breath, keep calm, and take your time with your answers only speaking when you know exactly what you want to come out of your mouth. (We can all be a bit brain nil mouth 10 under stress!) I always take the same seat round the table, and calmly gaze at the view out the window to steady myself (listening as well of course!)

 

I'll keep everything crossed for you on Monday, you go girl, you can do this!