Lexis200 V Egg (cca)

[lexis200]

Hello:)

 

I CCA'd Egg on the 18th November, and had a reply today.

 

Your Credit Agreement Request

 

Dear xx

 

Further to your recent request, I have pleasure in enclosing a copy of your Credit Agreement in accordance with your rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a copy of your terms and conditions.

 

I enclose a copy of your latest statement. This includes information as to the current status of the account, the balance and the date the next payment is due.

 

I would post it up, but whoever sent this unsigned letter didn't bother to include anything else in the envelope!

 

Anyone else had this? I'm wondering if it's a genuine error (lack of a sig would suggest it being a bit slap dash), or is it designed to stall a bit?

 

Oh well, a quick letter to ask them to actually send the stuff this time is needed I feel...

 

Lexis:)

[igglepiglet]

This is bizarre.

 

I received the same letter as you, word for word, see my post for scans.

 

It included a CCA, but it was clearly just printed out on the same stationery as the cover letter, lacking any signatures or dates. Certainly not the "true, signed copy of the executed agreement" that I had requested.

 

It was also missing the statement of account that the letter claimed had been enclosed.

[lexis200]

Okie dokie

 

Had my credit agreement sent today - it consists of about 10 pages of terms, admittedly from about the time I would have opened it (the only date I can see on the terms is '01 which would probably tally), but no hint of anything with any of my details on it.

 

They've also rather strangely included a statement from May 07 as my 'current state of the account and balance'.

 

I can't remember exactly, but I think I opened this account right back when Egg first appeared on the scene - when they operated with a Boots cashback scheme and had really good interest rates. Does anyone know what their track record with old accounts is?

 

I think I might just SAR them for the original document rather than go through all the palaver of 'you haven't sent what I want' 'but that's all we're going to send you' going on.

 

Thanks,

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

Edited January 8, 2009 by lexis200
duplicate post -doh

[igglepiglet]

Lexis, I made a complaint with Egg re: not providing me with a true signed copy of the original CCA, and they replied saying that they don't have to..

 

What else can I do?

[lexis200]

Hey igglepiglet

 

Technically they can send a blank agreement and still comply with the CCA. There's not much you can do if they refuse under this Act.

 

I've started SAR'ing the banks that just send rubbish (that's all of them:rolleyes:), and specifically requesting the original cca to be included. I've got the wording somewhere if you want to go down this route. It does cost £10, but they do have to send what you ask them for, as not complying with a data request is a big no-no for them. It also has the added bonus of showing you what charges were added that you may be able to claim back:)

 

Other than that, there is a thread going at the moment about using CPR rules to get the original, but I haven't read anything on it yet so can't advise there I'm afraid. My kneejerk reaction to it is that it's quite heavy handed, and you'll need to be willing to follow through with a court threat, but like I say I haven't read it so may be way off base with that thought.

[lexis200]

This is what Egg sent me, just for interest:) I have only scanned the first page of the terms as they are just standard copies of old terms.

 

Unenforceable as it stands, but I'd like to make sure they have nothing else before I go in boots first!

 

egg1.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

egg2.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[lexis200]

Anyone around with any thoughts on this please?

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

Okay, had the SAR back from Egg yesterday.

 

There were two agreements in there (I'd completely forgotten I used to have two cards!), both on 3 sheets of paper but they do look like they follow on from one another.

 

Unfortunately it looks to me like they have got the prescribed terms on them - I'll scan up later for comments - but there are a couple of points I'm not sure on.

 

Firstly, they have signed first. I've been trying to find out if this is a problem, but thoughts seem to be split on this.

 

Secondly, only one of them points to any cancellation rights, stating they'll send details of how to cancel once I've signed - the other one doesn't mention it at all.

 

Thirdly, even though they have already signed, they have a caveat stating that it is not legally binding on them until they have completed their final checks after I sign and return it. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't help thinking that if you have a signed-by-both-of-us contract, they can't then turn round and say 'hang on, actually we're not going ahead with this'? Of course I don't know if that's right or not, and more's to the point, I can't see how it might help me, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

 

One last thing is that on my flick through the statements they sent (which turned up PPI that I was charged for 2 years despite not asking for it and there not being anywhere to state I wanted it on the application anyway!), I found that they had charged £20 when I went overlimit.

 

Sounds perfectly normal, until I checked the rates shown on each statement and found that they advertise them on every single one as £16, not £20. Is this something I can use, or is it a bit of a red herring for me?

 

Thanks:)

[militantconsumer]

If you are talking credit cards then you need to concentrate on PT's Egg agreements thread, which I see you have already been posting on.

 

Also you could explore the PPI avenue if that was added to your card. My thread contains quite a few ways of challenging them and a template letter:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/178357-militant-consumer-challenges-egg.html

 

Egg lowered their charges from £20 to £16 following the OFT's report (forget when). So you might have been sent some later terms and conditions. It doesn't affect enforceability anyway, why would it?

[citizenB]

I think I have seen that if you sign after them, Lexis, it becomes executed on your signature.

 

I think the best place for information is pt's Egg thread. Seems like he has just has some successes as well.

[lexis200]

If you are talking credit cards then you need to concentrate on PT's Egg agreements thread, which I see you have already been posting on.

 

Also you could explore the PPI avenue if that was added to your card. My thread contains quite a few ways of challenging them and a template letter:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/178357-militant-consumer-challenges-egg.html

 

Egg lowered their charges from £20 to £16 following the OFT's report (forget when). So you might have been sent some later terms and conditions. It doesn't affect enforceability anyway, why would it?

 

Sorry, obviously didn't make myself clear there. With the statements they've sent within the SAR, they've literally copied every page that I originally received, so I've got one or two with transactions, and then the terms that get sent out each month with the statements (you know with the 'how to pay us' and 'if you have a complaint' bits on - not the actual terms and conditions). So, on each and every statement they have written that the charge is £16, but each charge has been £20. They have over-charged by £4 on each penalty according to the terms that go with each specific statement.

 

I didn't ever think it would affect enforceability, just that it might be another thorn in their side if I raise it with them, as they have effectively broken their own terms with each charge.

 

I've seen that it becomes executed when you sign CB, but also BRW has raised the point that as it is a cancellable agreement, and they have a strict time to allow for that, I could have sat on the agreement for a few days, gone out of the timescale and therefore screwed them up as they technically didn't allow enough time for me to cancel (hope that makes sense - BRW is rather more lucid in his explanation:D)

 

I take it that the lack of the right to cancel on one, and the fact that they state that even once both of us have signed they can still duck out if they want is a non-starter?

 

Lexis:)

 

ps thank for the link militantconsumer, I'll have a look later!

[citizenB]

Aha.. yes of course, cancellation rights. Sorry, I forgot about those

[lexis200]

Okie dokie - I've got some scans for egg - bear with me, there's a few of them!

 

First the new agreement (which to me looks ok aside from pt's argument of approved v credit limit.

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggapp1.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggapp2.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggapp3.jpg

[lexis200]

Then we have the Default Notice

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggdefault1.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggdefault2.jpg

 

I think it's compliant, but if anyone thinks differently please let me know!

[lexis200]

And the statement, showing what I mean about the charges being different. These are what arrived within the SAR, and I have about 8/9 of these charges of £20 when they should have been £16.

 

I know I'm harping on about this, but it's really irked me!

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggstatement1.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggstatement2.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggstatement3.jpg

[lexis200]

And lastly a letter I received today which has flummoxed me somewhat - I'm not aware of a single call attempt having been made! No messages taken for me, and nothing on the answerphone or call log from numbers I don't recognise.

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggletter140509.jpg

 

Not sure what to do with this, other than tell them they shouldn't be attempting phone contact anyway, and telling them it's still on a payment plan??

 

Thanks for looking:)

[militantconsumer]

And lastly a letter I received today which has flummoxed me somewhat - I'm not aware of a single call attempt having been made! No messages taken for me, and nothing on the answerphone or call log from numbers I don't recognise.

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/eggletter140509.jpg

 

Not sure what to do with this, other than tell them they shouldn't be attempting phone contact anyway, and telling them it's still on a payment plan??

 

Thanks for looking:)

 

We have also received this letter without any calls being received.

[lexis200]

odd:confused:

[lexis200]

Bump for posts 14-17 anyone...

 

[summerbreeze]

What are the dates on the DN ?

[lexis200]

Hi Summerbreeze

 

11th May and the 8th June, so I don't have them on that...

 

The only thing I thought was whether they have included charges in the arrears amount, but I don't know what I should be using to work this out.

 

I'm not sure if it's just if any charges applied through the life of the account would void it, or if it has to be recent charges applied over and above the minimum payments that would be showing as the arrears on the default, or something else entirely!

 

It's so much easier when it's plainly a rubbish notice:rolleyes:

[summerbreeze]

If its a credit card account it will involve going through your statements and adding up the minimum payments you have missed and checking if they have added penalty charges into the arrears on the DN I think. Its easier to calculate with loan cos of the fixed payments.

[citizenB]

Lexis, I think it is any previous charges that have been added to your account.

 

I agree, the dates seem correct.

 

 

I would be asking questions about the difference in the charges on the statements ?

[angry cat]

The charges were in fact £20, later £16. Most others creditors reduced theirs to £12.

Egg have always been the stubborn ones!

Their excuse was that they are an internet Bank, thus they could not reduce to £12.

 

Rubbish excuse, as most other credit card providers are also internet serviced e.g. MBNA: the largest CC provider, who reduced their charges to £12, but that is another story...

 

Pity Egg didn't state the default charges on their so-called agreements!

 

Moving on to the results of your SAR, Egg have actually provided incorrect terms on the reverse of your statements, they have provided current terms.

 

Not that it affects matters very much, as the amount shown on your statements as charges, is what you caim back plus contractual interest from the date of each charge to date.

 

I must say though, it would appear that Egg are in a bit of a muddle!

 

AC