J & A Davis, threating court action late business rent payment

[nightkid]

Hi anyone

I'm hoping someone will kindly point me the right place.

 

I'm helping a family member who is a first tenant for a commerical unit.

They were a month late on their quarterly payment which was explained to the landlord by phone but he refused the late payment under any circumstance.

Either way the full payment was been cleared a day after a letter was received by a bailiff.

No warning of bailiff prior to this.

 

The question is what can their charge for a first letter through the post with no levy agreement as no one was at the site at the time of the first visit.

 

The distress for rent is £3249.60 + £439.63 Bailiff fee

Basis charge per day = £75

Basis charge for a Van for 2 hrs @ £100 per hr = £200

VAT = £48.13

Levy Fee + VAT = £116.50

 

Total = £439.63 Bailiff fee

 

Does this number sounds right?

I been reading the forum and I thought a first off letter charge with no Levy signed is just a one off sliding scale payment?

How much should they be charging?

Why is they a Van charge when they can't remove goods without a signed Levy in the first place?

 

If the fee is incorrect then who do I complain to?

The Bailiff?

Form 4?

The landlord?

National Enforecement Services who contracted the job to this Bailiff?

 

Thanks for the help from all you kind people. Cheers

 

Tom

[Guest BURP]

The law prescribing fees for collecting unpaid rent is Appendix 1 Distress for Rent Rules 1988 The fees that can be charged for one or more visits to the premises in order to levy distress (whether levy is made or not) must be reasonable and not exceed:

 

For the first £100 or less of arrears 12.5%

For the next £400 of arrears 4%

For the next £1,500 of arrears 2.5%

For the next £8,000 of arrears 1%

For any additional sum 0.25%

Walking possession fee 45p a day

Transport of goods: reasonable costs. No goods moved then £0.00.

There are no prescribed letter fees for collecting unpaid rent

The law doesnt provide for bailiffs to charge VAT on any fees prescribed above

 

For unpaid rent of £3249.60 the prescribed maximum bailiff fees with no goods transported is £78.40. You are being ripped off £361.14.

 

Ask the bailiff to truthfully confirm his fees are lawfully compliant and you will find he will become unstuck (others on this forum might butt-in disagreeing with this approach on asking for a certificating court for this type of bailiff).

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Opportunity to refund and compensate for fee error

 

I write following visits by your bailiff, however there appears to be an irregularity with your fees and I ask you to provide the following within fourteen (14) days:

 

a) The name of the certificating court and certificate number for the bailiff in charge

 

b) Written confirmation of your fees and charges

 

c) Truthfully confirm in writing they are lawful according to prescribed legislation

 

d) The name and address of the person or body you act for

 

If you cannot complete the above, please unconditionally pay me within fourteen (14) days a refund of all unlawful fees and unconditionally pay me compensation of £4999.00 for failure to comply with the law and I will consider this aspect of the matter closed.

 

If I later find an irregularity with your fees within the statutory time limit of 6 years prescribed under Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980, I will enter no further correspondence with you and automatically file a Form 4 at court for committing offences under the Fraud Act 2006. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your firm's director(s) may receive a criminal record for fraud, assisting an offender and benefiting from proceeds of crime.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

 

Ripping you off is a criminal offence.

 

To whom it may concern

Name of Police Station

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting offences committed under the Fraud Act

 

I was visited by [NAME OF BAILIFF(S)] of on [DATE] enforcing payment of unpaid rent. I Have been defrauded by the bailiff because he overcharged me in fees contrary to Appendix 1 Distress for Rent Rules 1988.

 

I was charged £439.63 for an original debt of £3249.60 confirms I am being been ripped off £361.14 in fraudulent bailiffs fees. The prescribed maximum for this debt is £78.40

 

I asked the bailiff to put things right but they failed to do so. Their receipt indicates the bailiff or his firm is routinely and systematically defrauding debtors in this way believing the general public are less-informed of the law that prescribes bailiffs fees.

 

I understand it is a criminal offence under sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 to make a gain or obtain a money transfer in this way or by misuse of his position. I therefore ask the criminal element of this matter is fully investigated objectively and professionally and I have enclosed relevant documentation to satisfy the criteria for the CPS to start criminal proceedings. I am happy to stand as a prosecution witness and provide a statement, please let me know if you need further information.

 

Meanwhile please provide me with the crime number.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: Copy of bailiff document.

[nightkid]

Thankyou for your guildance BURP

I have yet to pay the fees because of this problem. Will it be okay not to pay anything until the actually figure owe has been resolved?

 

So to confirm first thing I need to do is writing a letter to the Bailiff and National Enforecement Services who contracted the job to this Bailiff. Wait 14 days to reply then depending on that outcome I will file the Form 4 and letter to the Police department.

 

Thanks again for your time,

 

Tom

[Guest BURP]

You cannot withhold paying the rent that is due, Pay the landlord direct and bypass the bailiff if you can. The landlord will have paid an upfront fee to the bailiff before addressing the warrant to him. You only need to write to the office the bailiff is from. You can file a form 4 but find out if the bailiff is certificated by calling the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate.

[nightkid]

BURP

I have paid the Landlord directly and was just wondering whether I need to pay the Bailiff fees now or wait till the 14 days after I've sent the letter.

 

Thanks

[Guest BURP]

If you have paid the landlord direct then you dont owe anything to the bailiff. Get a receipt. You can send the letters anyway but I dont think it'll come to much apart from chase the bailiffs away and keep them busy with police asking questions.

[nightkid]

BURP

I've just send the letter to the Bailiff this lunchtime with your template. I've pay the Landlord directly although the payment was late which I thought I'm liable to the Bailiff's fee (of course not as much as he have quoted for). Well as long they don't harnass me anymore then I don't care whether they response to the letter or not. Hopfully that is the end of it. Thanks again for your time

[nightkid]

Hi everyone

I recently wrote on the 13th Nov concerning Bailiff first charges:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/168039-bailiffs-first-visit-what.html

 

I've used BURP's letter template (the one with the "pay me £4999" etc.).

Well I have recieved a letter back from them, please see pdf attachment.

They still want £439.63 for a attending a Levy where a levy was not made, so basically a first letter through the post for £3249.60 distress of rent. According to their table on appendix 1, para 1 it doesn't work out to £439.63, especially with these added "Van charges" and "man hours" for no levy taking place.

 

Just to be clear, the rent with the landlord has been resolved and so the only problem is the Bailiff's charges.

 

One thing I don't understand is this "common law" which apparently you can bypass without issuing a warrent. Can someone clarify please.

 

Whats the next step? Any suggestion. I was going to write them another letter today with a complete breakdown of the charges which I believe is correct using their own figures on the appendix and settle it this way.

 

Thanks for all the replies. Cheers

20081119075338812.pdf

[Guest BURP]

One of the questions asked in the letter is the name of the bailiff in charge however it's private bailiffs and not certificated bailiffs that collect unpaid rent.

 

The letter is really a template for council tax and parking ticket bailiffs.

Your post isnt clear whether you have paid any bailiffs fees yet while I accept you have paid the landlord in full.

 

If the bailiff has not transported any goods then there are no van fees etc.

If you have not signed anything then walking possession fees £0.00.

 

You are perfectly entitled to ignore their letter and its up to the bailiff to sue you in the small claims track for their fees.

 

If the bailiff is harassing you for fees that are not lawfully due then they commit an offence and you have a right to complain to police.

 

You also have a right to apply for a restraining order stopping the bailiff contacting you.

Your reply should be something like this.

 

 

Quote

Anthony H Davis

J&A Davis

PO Box 1007

Manchester

M17 1JG

 

November 19, 2008

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Warrant of Distress

 

Thanks for your letter of the 17th Instance and received by me today.

 

I confirm all unpaid rent has been settled with the landlord and the matter is now closed. As your reply fails to address the issues raised in my letter I now ask that you pay me compensation of £4999 for your failure to comply with regulations prescribing bailiffs fees.

 

As no goods have been transported by you and I have not signed any document giving consent a binding agreement between us that enables you to raise any fees, therefore there are no lawful grounds for you to demand I pay you any money.

 

Your letter confirms that the warrant was issued by a landlord under common law and not by a Court. This confirms there is no court order obligating me to pay your fees and there is no contract between us that enables you to charge fees in this way. I'm afraid I cannot accept your fees.

 

I trust this settles this aspect of the matter and I await your compensation payment for your failure to comply with the law when setting your fees. If you decide to pursue a civil claim then be advised it will be vigorously defended and will automatically involve a complaint being passed to police for committing offences under Section 2 of the Fraud Act by pretending your fees are lawful and reasonable.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

[nightkid]

Thanks BURP, that clarify the issue. Just to confirm, I haven't paid any of the Bailiff fees, only the landlord's rent.

 

Sorry but I have a few curiosity questions if you can kindly answer:

 

What I need to do is to write them a letter telling them I owe them nothing and they should stop contacting me on this matter? Why would they take it up to the small claim court if as you say I owe them nothing? Is it just a scare tactic to get some money out of nothing?

 

So let me just get my head round this...If it is a council matter then I'm entitled to pay fees for first/second letters through the post but if is a private/commercial matter then they can not charge me for any letters posted as the landlord would have paid upfront for the bailiff's services. Are I correct?

 

Thanks again for you helpful advices

[Guest BURP]

Yes you should write to them saying you dont owe anything.

Its because there is no contract between you and the bailiff has overcharged with fees by pretending he can charge a van when no van has been used etc.

 

Their letter you posted threatens legal action if you dont pay within 7 days.

You are counter-claiming it because their fees contradict the law that sets them.

They must be reasonable and they are clearly not.

 

In any event there is no contractual obligation that says you must pay them, the law only prescribes a schedule of fees and says nothing about obligations on the tenant.

 

What has the council to do with it?

Are they the landlord?

The law doesnt provide for any letter fees.

 

In most cases with unpaid rent and CCJ enforcement the landlord/plaintiff will have already paid the bailiffs upfront so its likely your bailiff has already received a minimal remuneration for commencing enforcement.

 

Any dispute of fees is a civil matter between you and the bailiff.

Fob them off long enough and they will soon move on.

 

If they file proceedings in the small track then you can counter-claim they failed to comply with the law and tried to defraud you with their fees and you can ask the judge for your costs and compensation.