2 house repossessions ...help!

[katie3105]

hi we own 2 properties, 1 in my name and 1 in husbands. We live in 1 and rent the other. After severe financial difficulties this past few months we find ourselves 3 months behind on 1 mortgage and 4 on the other. We owe 7.5 k on the first and about 5.5 k on the second.

 

we have been issued repossession hearings on both for 21 and 27 nov.

 

Can anyone tell me if i make payments on both ...say pay half the arrears on both before the hearing is it possible to get them to withdraw the repo hearings?

 

would appreciate any help...we have 2 small children and worried we are going to loose both houses before xmas and have no where to live.....

[nevos]

Hi, from what I gather by reading other threads: You can ask the court to spread the arrears over the term of the loan then, continue making the payments with the addition of the contribution to the arrears. There is case law to cover this.Have a read through the threads on the subject. Help will be on the way from others for sure!

[nuke em]

There is no way you would loose possession before Christmass, the process takes too long.

 

ok that said , we need more info

 

 

The house that you live in , thats your "family " home. Does the other one have a buy to let mortgage on it or did you both own these homes as residential home before you got married , say for example

 

The "family" home, how much do you owe and what is it worth to sell today for (talking into acount current market conditions)

 

The "Renter" home, how much do you owe and what is it worth to sell today for (talking into acount current market conditions)

 

who are the lenders on both props?

 

what written or otherwise correspondence have you had with them, ie capitalising your arreas, explaing you situation to them?

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, have you filled in the N11M defence forms that came with the court papers? the most important part on these forms is Q.27 which I can help you with a statement for.

 

You have asked about paying half the arrears on the mortgages, this would certainly help your case - when would you be able to make these payments?

 

Who is your lender and have you been in contact with them regarding the arrears position.

 

Please try not to worry too much, there is a lot we can do to help. I very much doubt that you will lose any of the properties. I have been involved in helping people in much worse arrears situations than yours and they have kept their homes.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[wellmeantadvice]

Hi Katie

 

1) In a worst case scenario, the usual order for possession gives possession in 28 days- in practice this means that the mortgage company can issue a warrant for eviction (i.e. ask for a bailiff to take possession) after that time. Bailiffs are very busy, so that it normally takes at least another 2 weeks before they have a date available. I would be very surprised if any eviction date could be found any earlier than at least 8 weeks from the hearing date.

 

2) It is possible, although unlikely, that they would withdraw the repossession proceedings. That is going to be a matter of negotiation between you and them. If you managed to clear the arrears entirely, they would most likely adjourn proceedings generally with liberty to restore (i.e. no order is made at this point, but if you fell in arrears again, they could bring it back to court without having to issue new proceedings).

 

If you can't clear the arrears in full, but can reduce them as well as making proposals to clear them over a period of time, they may well agree to a suspended order (i.e. an order for possession that cannot be enforced so long as you maintain the agreed repayments). A lump sum payment would clearly be very helpful, but it is actually even more important that you can make regular monthly payments towards the arrears thereafter.

 

3) Leaving aside the lump sum payment for a moment, how much per month could you realistically pay towards the arrears? Almost all lenders will accept proposals if the arrears can be cleared within 12 months, some will agree to repayments of the arrears over a longer period, such as 24, 48, or even 60 months (and, of course, if you make a lump sum payment, that will reduce the arrears figure).

 

4) If you can't get the lender to agree to a suspended order (or even to withdraw the proceedings), then the court has a discretion to suspend an order for possession under s. 36 of the Administration of Justice Act, provided the court is satisfied that you can clear the arrears over a reasonable period of time. There is caselaw stating that 'a reasonable period' can be anything up to the whole remaining term of the mortgage (Cheltenham & Gloucester v Norgan, 1995), but realistically most judges will want to see the arrears cleared over a shorter period of time than that.

 

5) If it does go to court without an agreement, make sure that you bring along evidence of your ability to pay, ideally showing an income & expenditure statement that shows that you can afford to pay the amount proposed by you. BUT, make sure that any amount you offer is realistic- there is no point in offering substantial repayments, just because the lender may agree to a suspension on those terms, if you can't afford them. Remember, if there is a suspended order & you breach the terms, a warrant for eviction can be requested.

 

6) Although you have received a date for a court hearing, there is nothing to stop you from coming to an agreement with the lenders in the meantime. So, work out what you can realistically pay & see if they will agree to that (if not you can always put it to the judge at the hearing). There is also nothing to stop you from paying more than the agreed amount to clear the arrears more quickly, so it is worth whle leaving yourself a certain safety buffer.

Edited October 19, 2008 by wellmeantadvice
point 6 added

[katie3105]

thanks for that advice it has been most helpful. I spoke to my lender today an dthey were ok and also spoke to the solicitor who basically said the same thing as you. I am going to try and reach an agreement and pay as much as poss of the arrears before the hearing.

 

thansk again i feel a lot happier today. Might get some sleep tonight.

 

kat xx

[nevos]

May I ask the wise owls a question: When people are discussing or in litgation re arrears, what about the charges as from what I can find from other threads, these are re-claimable?

 

Thanks.

[katie3105]

An update on the situation...i contacted the mortgage company and sols acting on their behalf and i have to put a proposal together for them to agree and they will then go to court and suspend the repo order if they agree to it.

 

last night i got a phone csll from the tennants in the rented house to say that someone from mortgage express had been on the phone and had given personal info of mine away.

 

They were asking the tennants all sorts of questions......

 

I am worried as i have not told the mortage co that i had tennants in the house as it is also up for sale.

 

We had an offer but that fel through so basically i had to find tennats quickly so i could afford the mortgage.

 

Its such a mess....can anyone advise

 

thanks

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, best thing to do is to send the solicitors your proposal for payment. If you need help with the letter, just let me know.

 

Have you filled in any of the court defence papers yet (N11M)?

 

Ell-enn

[katie3105]

he ell-enn

 

thanks for stopping by to look at my situation.

 

I have had no court papers yet for the rented property but hace had court papers for the house we live in ....it said there would be court papers with it but there were none in the info we got.

 

not sure what to do about it.

 

The hearing for our house is 21st Nov and for the rented one the 26th.

 

My husband is going to ring his mortgage co this afternoon to find out what to do and if they will accept a paymenmt plan.

 

He told them at the beginning of oct he would have them cleared in 2-3 months and they were fine woth that on the phone but have then issued repo proceedings a week later.

 

Its not fair and as if they are doing it on purpose. We are both only 3 months in arrrears and have plenty equity in both properties but they are not wiling to add the arrears on even though we van afford to pay the current monthly payments. Its getting the arrears cleared on both that is the problem.

 

the rented house has been up for sale for 12 months and we had an offern whihc fell thnrough but as soon as it sells they will get their money back. Mortgage Express know it is up for sale. There is about £35k of equity in it and about £75 in the house we live in.

 

thanks any help with a letter of propsal to the solicitor would be great. I owe £7.5k including the amount due at the end of the month. The monthly payments are £1450 but i am paying £3000 off before the end of the month. This will bring the arrears to £4.5 k. I am not sure if the last rate cut has been passed on yet but if it has my montghly payments should come down to £1350. Realistically i can probably only agree to committ to paying no more that £1500 per month, which taking into account the rate cut would be an extra £150 per month off the arrears. However i am self employed and do get lump sums of money whcih i will of course use to pay the arrears off. The likelihood is that the arrears will be cleared in the next 3-6 months but i dont want to committ to the extra monthly amount in case i have not got it.

 

i would also like to ask them if they could add the arrears on i.e the £4.5k. Our mortgage is £247000 and we have our house up for sale at £285000 which would mean the total mortage would be £251500. still plenty to play with in the house sale.

 

any help greatly appreciated i havent slept in days.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, please try not to worry too much. As these lenders are asking for possession for the first time it would be very unusual for a judge order in their favour, especially when you both have an income and can pay towards the arrears each month.

 

The most important thing is to get letters off to the lenders with an offer of payment towards the arrears. That way, if they still proceed to court you can prove to the judge that you have tried to come to an arrangement.

 

I will draft a letter that you can adapt for each of the lenders and post it on here this afternoon. In the meantime, I have affixed a budget sheet which you will need to send with the letters to reinforce your offe, so you each need to complete one of those asap - you need to show the amount left over each month is the amount you are offering towards the arrears in addition to the monthly payment.

 

Back shortly

 

 

Ell-enn

Budget Sheet.xls

[katie3105]

thanks ell enn its much appreciated and i feel a lot better already:)

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, affixed is the draft letter for each of you to send to your mortgage company. Where I have put brackets for the reason for the arrears you need to fill in the detail - if you are self employed you could state that the arrears arose "due to a downturn in business during the months of XXX" etc. Try to keep the letter all on one page.

 

Ell-enn

Katie3105 letter 22.10.08.doc

[katie3105]

thanks again ell enn you are a life saver

[nevos]

I heard on the radio today that,government are telling lenders they have to help people out rather than go for repossession as the first line of attack. Apparently, they are or have issued some guide lines to the courts. In effect, the courts will give favourable decisions to folk who try to find a solution. There are some problems with second charge lenders being a bit harsh.

 

May I ask the wise owls a question: When people are discussing or in litgation re arrears, what about the charges as from what I can find from other threads, these are re-claimable?

I didnt get a reply from anyone on this point?

[wellmeantadvice]

Hi Katie,

 

1) The mortgage company should not have disclosed any of your personal information to the tenants, other than notifying them that they were issuing possession proceedings (although this should be done by letter- the so-called notice to occupiers). However, although the judge might reprimand them for this (and you could start a separate complaint about this), this is unlikely to have any effect on the current proceedings.

 

2) You say that the mortgage company was not aware that you had let the property- do you have a buy-to-let mortgage? Normally buy-to-let mortgages are slightly more expensive, and if you have a residential mortgage you should have let the mortgage company know that you now wish to rent the property out & obtain permission (possibly changing to a higher rate buy-to-let mortgage).

 

3) I agree with Ell-enn, that you should try and get your proposal to them asap (setting out exactly how much you can pay in a lump sum, giving the date by which that payment will be made, and also setting out how much you will be able to pay each month thereafter, and by which dates. Also include your income & expenditure statement, showing that you can in fact make these payments). As I said before, make sure that the proposals are affordable- you are far better off making a lower proposal (even if the mortgage company did not agree to it, the judge probably would) and sticking to it, than to make a high proposal to keep the mortgage company happy, and defaulting on this.

 

4) The mortgage company is under no obligation to capitalise the arrears (i.e. to add them to the total outstanding mortgage), so if they don't agree to do this, that is their choice. However, the judge can look at the remaining mortgage term when deciding how much you have to repay each month on top of the instalments (although most judges will normally look at a period of between 2 & 6 years. However, from what you've said, you're looking at clearing the arrears a lot quicker than that anyway).

 

5) When you say that the mortgage company were fine with clearing the arrears on the phone, but issued proceedings a week later, I would not worry unduly about that. They will probably still agree to repayment proposals, but want the security of a suspended order (although it does mean that you are liable for the costs incurred as a result).

 

6) Looking at the figures, if you make a lump sum payment and then pay £150 extra per month, you would clear the arrears in 30 months. Even if you only offered an additional £100 per month (& I would recommend this, as it gives you a little bit of a safety buffer, which you might need, being self-employed), you would still clear the arrears in less than 4 years.

 

There is nothing to stop you from paying more than any suspended order orders you to pay- so if you do get lump sum payments in, fantastic; they will clear the arrears faster than expected. BUT if you do not keep up the repayments under a suspended order, they can enforce the warrant. Therefore (at the risk of repeating myself) make sure your proposal is affordable.

 

7) A final point, most mortgage lenders will ask to adjourn a matter generally with liberty to restore if the arrears are less than 2 months' worth.

 

 

And, to echo Ell-enn, try not to worry too much. It sounds as though you actually have some relatively solid figures, a well worked-out proposal, and if the mortgaeg company does not agree to it, the judge in all likelihood will.

[katie3105]

thanks very much for all your thoughts they have been much appreciated. I am going to send the letter tomorrow and send a copy to the solicitor acting on the mortgage co behalf.

 

We are hoping to have the arrears cleared before court and i think i am right in thinking that even if i clear them on the day before they cannoy proceed with the hearing and would have to withdraw it.

 

Can anyone advise?

 

thanks again

[wellmeantadvice]

Technically you are wrong, but to all practical intents & purposes you are right.

 

The right to possession accrues upon breach of the mortgage (s. 101 of the Law of Property Act 1925 Law of Property Act 1925 (c.20) - Statute Law Database)

 

The Court of Appeal also held in Halifax v Taffs (1999) that the right to possession crystallises upon default.

 

This means that in theory, the Claimant can proceed even if the arrears are cleared in full.

 

HOWEVER, in practice, if you clear the arrears before the hearing, the lender will most probably ask for the matter to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore, and if not, that is what the judge will order.

[nevos]

May I ask the wise owls a question: When people are discussing or in litgation re arrears, what about the charges as from what I can find from other threads, these are re-claimable?

 

Is this a taboo subject or what, no one seems to answer the question?

 

Katie3105: You appear capable as didnt you post in another thread you had dealt with a Statutory Demand for a friend.

[katie3105]

nevos

yes i am capable but worried sick as never been in this position before.....never had to deal with repo ever in the 12 years i have had a mortgage have not even missed a payment until earlier this yera when we fell upon bad times.

 

its always easier when dealing with something for someone else. My friend happened to be very worried i however was not as it was not my problem.

 

I only dealt with it for him after doing hours of research on this brilliant forum and using some of the advice to help him write a letter to first credit and an affidavit.

 

without this site there is no way i could have handled it.

 

I also agree with you on the point of charges but it is only from what i have read.

 

when i have sorted my little problem out i shall be going after the charges refunding and will keep you posted

 

katie

[Ell-enn]

Hi Katie, if you clear the arrears the day before the hearing they can still go ahead with it (and most probably will!). However, what they cannot get is possession of the property when there are no arrears.

 

If they do not cancel the hearing (and they probably won't) you should most definately attend as they may get an order to restore at any time if you are not there to object. That would mean that at any time in the future if you miss a payment they can restore the hearing with not a lot of notice!. Never trust them if they say you don't need to attend, or that they will cancel the hearing - you should always phone the court to check that they have!

 

Ell-enn

[nevos]

Hi, it seems no one mentions the charges on these issues, I mean the charges could be more than the arrears. That was my point.

 

last night i got a phone csll from the tennants in the rented house to say that someone from mortgage express had been on the phone and had given personal info of mine away.

 

You could issue them with the : You don't have permission to visit me letter only the postman and a person asking for directions etc..tort of trespass etc...you can find it on CAG. This might stop them calling on your tennant.

 

Anyway, keep smiling it will get sorted in time..

[katie3105]

thanks you too

 

am a lot happier now have looked at lots of other people threads and it seems i am not in that bad a position compared to some.

 

Do you think that you just send the mortgage company an sar request for the charges.

 

I know i have been charged £25 for arrears each month and i think £40 each month for ddr rejection or it may be the other way around ...but what they do is calim the ddr twice each month so there are 2 lots of charges as well as 2 x £25 charges at the bank which i am fighting to get back at the moment....

 

If anyone can comment on charges with nortgages i would be interested to hear you thoughts...

 

thanks again everyone

 

laura

[Ell-enn]

Hi, you will find a template letter for claiming back mortgage charges here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/71276-mortgage-charge-letter-templates.html

 

also have a read around the stickies and information here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/

 

 

Ell

[nevos]

Hi Laura,

 

Do you think that you just send the mortgage company an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request for the charges.

 

I read a lady sent an SAR however, they rejected it because, it didn't have both signatures on it. So if you do send one ensure you both sign, record it and send a PO, you can track both. I'm about to go for GE will send SAR next week.