Rossendales & CTAX LO

[Guy]

My partner has a liability order from Rosendales.

 

We will follow the advice here and send a letter oferring payment in installments.

It is actually a non domestic rates demand however we do not have a figure! not on the letter through the door so have disputed the amount.

 

If we pay the council direct online does that mean that they accept the payment and therefore if they accept the payment then we dont have to pay bailif fees??

 

Cos their system automatically takes the payment and registers it against the bill.

 

Also as long as we dont let them in or sign a WPO then they cant do much either especially if we pay regularly. Can they let themselves in if the door is unlocked or a window open??

 

Thanks

[palomino]

NDR is for businesses. Are your business premises open to the public? - if so then the bailiff can just walk in.

[Guy]

Hi Palomino,

 

This liability order is for business rates, the shop is now closed and has been since September 1st.

She knew she was in arrears and had conversations with the rates dept. She did tell them that she would be vacating the premises on 24th dec so could they re-evaluatethe outstanding amount. This was around the 20th of August.

 

on the 1st sept she closed the shop. She did not hear anything at all from the rates people either at the shop address or home address until today when a letter was dropped through the door from a Rossendales collector with the warnings to pay in full in 24 hrs etc.

 

She has spoken to the rates dept today and given them the info and they hacve said that they will re-evaluate the bill but that she will have to deal with the bailliffs.

 

I have done a letter for her for the rates man giving the deatils of when she last spoke to them, when she closed the shop and when the lease will be taken over by a new tenant. I also let them know that she was unhappy with the fact that she has not recieved anything from them not even a court notice. At least if we had had a court notice we could have done something about it then.

 

We know enough not to l et the bailiff in the door etc and i am now drafting a letter to the bailiff.

 

The letter from the Bailiff is demanding payment in full but does NOT have any figures on it.

 

Also a technical point - the spelling of the name from both the council and the bailiff is not the same as the spelling on her birth certificate. i know it is a small point but many cases have been won or lost on the little points.

 

We dropped the letter to the council in by hand today and also made a nominal payment via online transfer just to muddy the waters. Where do we stand now do you think.

 

Thanks

[palomino]

The council appears to have a strange way of running their rates collection.

 

I wouldn't bother about the name misspelling as any judge would ignore that point. After all, you have been paying the rates up until now.

 

I would find out exactly what you owe to the council given the early vacation of the premises (and your nominal contribution). If you can then pay the full amount to the council straight away. That way you can bypass the bailiffs.

If you can pay online then do it that way.

 

I would also lodge a formal complaint with the council about their handling of the matter. Not sending bills and not sending any notice of the application for a liability order is contrary to natural justice - you should ask why they haven't done this. Naturally the Royal Mail will be blamed [sic].

In fact the full amount isn't due yet - part of it isn't due until 24th Dec. [unless you've been late and forfeited the right to monthly payments].

[Guy]

Hi palomino,

 

Adrian from the council phoned today. He has re-evaluated and the amount due is now £165.40. He has waived the previous years outstanding of £21 for a very vague reason which i couldnt get a detailed explanation.

I asked about the £10 paid last night and this hasnt hit thier system yet and did ask about paying them in person on monday, He said that this must now be paid direct to the Bailiff who will contact us on Monday along with their charges.

 

I will make payment direct online as thier system will automatically accept the payment. When it comes to the Bailiff fees, which we still dont have an idea of, it would be made up of one set of fees for the first year which was waived and another set i imagine from the current. I presume that fees are also based on the value of debt - can you point me at a link for fees?

 

I would argue the point that if the council had got the bill right in the first place or we had had a chance to defend at court then it wouldnt have got this far and so no fees would have been due anyway.

 

In any case if the Bailiff phones on Monday and i say that there is in fact nothing now outstanding what happens then?

 

thanks again

Its nice to actually win this time.

[Bongo Dancer]

I presume that fees are also based on the value of debt - can you point me at a link for fees?

 

Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

http://www.northwarks.gov.uk/downloads/charges_connected_with_distress.doc says £22.50 1st visit and £16.50 for a 2nd visit.

 

If there no debt outstanding then theres no money due. If a bailiff turns up. hand this letter.

 

To: [NAME OF BAILIFF]

 

BY HAND

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Your visit to [ADDRESS AND POSTCODE]

 

The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears from me however, as I have already cleared all debts on the liability order, therefore no money if due.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police and you may face a criminal record.

 

Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property. If your fees contradict those prescribed by law I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint against you at your certificating court for attempting to defraud me under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

This document was passed to you by hand, and a photograph using a mobile phone has just been taken showing you standing outside the above address reading it.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

[Guy]

You are all stars!!

 

Thanks again.

[palomino]

 

In any case if the Bailiff phones on Monday and i say that there is in fact nothing now outstanding what happens then?

 

 

He'll throws his toys out of pram. Prepare yourself for an onslaught but stand firm and don't pay him.

But it sounds like you know this already! Good luck.

[KJD]

Just a point about the fees..

 

There was an amendment in 2007 so the charges have increased slightly

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/jenjuly82/scan0001.jpg

 

(thanks to jenjul82)

 

Well done Guy

[Bongo Dancer]

The Parking ticket bailiffs fees were amended in 2003, the 2007 amendments for council tax and business rates have not been ratified and placed onto the statute book yet. Those fees are from the 2003 and 1993 regulations.

[KJD]

In that case, everyone on this forum recently has been overcharged then

[Bongo Dancer]

Guy, sorry I didnt read your post. The regulations you are looking for is Regulation 3© of the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993

 

1st Visit £15.00

2nd Visit £12.50

Sum recovered up to £100 £15.00

£100 to £400 4%

£400 to £1500 2.5%

£1500 to £8000 1%

£8000 and above Quarter of 1%