Credit cards and DCAs

[Chickenlegs]

Hi CAG community - nice to meet you all!

 

We have been getting some advice already from reading your various links/threads a

nd questions/answers on credit card debts and those awful DCA's.

 

We are a couple of OAPs who have gotten ourselves into a mess with credit card debts.

 

We owe approximately £50,000 to various banks and credit cards

- and these debts in turn have, mostly, been passed on to DCAs.

 

We know that, initially, we have only ourselves to blame for this debt

- but it is just made too easy these days to say 'Yes' when unlimited thousands are waved in front of you

and you are encouraged to spend, spend and spend.

 

Which is what we did, did and did!!

 

Now we have to pay it back and that's a different matter.

 

As OAPs there is only a limited amount each month coming in

but, two years ago, we wrote to them all and offered between £5 and £10 a month to each of them

and, to date, some of them have been quite reasonable and have accepted that this is all we can afford.

 

Others, meanwhile, have done their utmost to be awkward.

 

One, in particular, was Arrow Global, which we see from your messages alot of you have had trouble with.

 

They passed this debt to Cope's solicitors who accepted £5 a month for a while

and then took me to Court and I now have a CCJ against me, for, guess what, £5 a month!!

 

We read from your messages about sending a letter requesting a CCA

so we did that immediately to Copes solicitors but they replied that they had applied to the Court 2 days before

the date of our letter so they didn't have to provide it!

 

The upshot is, of course, that we now have a CCJ against one of us.

 

I was really frightened for my health, the stress of getting this was unbelievable.

 

Although the other DCAs are behaving themselves and accepting our payments each month

we are at anytime expecting them to get nasty and demand more

(I've recently read your threads about Link Financial

and we both have debts that they have taken over),

 

so we have sent off Recorded Delivery letters with £1 POs asking for CCAs.

 

Quite frankly we are scared stiff that we have done the wrong thing

and that we should have let sleeping dogs lie!!

 

We have read how you are all doing such a wonderful job supporting each other,

so we are here to ask if you would please support us during this difficult time?

 

When you are younger you are able to let these kind of things bounce off you

but when you are our age and only on pensions, it is really, really frightening.

 

Chickenlegs

[honey5]

aw bless of course you will get all of the help and support that you need here, try not to fret too much (easy to say i know)

Simple answer is they cant take what you havent got

youre going down the right route asking for CCA to see if the debt is enforceable

Try posting in the relevant forums and i promise you someone will guide you every step of the way

Good luck to you both and here's to a happy stress free ending

 

honeyx

[42man]

Welcome Chickenlegs.....nobody is here to judge you, and as you know you are among others who are in/have been in similar situations to yourselves....Don't forget to reclaim those excessive charges too + 8% compounded interest !!!

[Chickenlegs]

Thank you Honey5 and 42man for your words of support..........but what are the "excessive charges" and "compounded interest"??

[42man]

OK....when you get charged by a bank £12 or £35 or £75 for going over your limit, or bouncing a cheque or not honouring a direct debit.....

 

So lets say for example your bank charges you £50 for going £100 over your overdraft (that is classed as a penalty and is unlawful)...you can claim that back....and as far as compounded interest goes, then let's say the charge was £50 back on 1st January 2004 then that is worth £68.94 to you......

 

There is a good compounded interest calculator here...

 

Bank Charges: Reclaim them, they’re unlawful, inc. free template letters ...

 

So you can claim all your excessive charges back for the last 6 years...!! on bank accounts, credit cards, etc

 

It has been known that some debts are made up entirely of these charges...

[Chickenlegs]

Thank you 42man for the info

- all but 1 of our credit card debts were within the credit limit when we wrote to them 2 years ago

to informing them of our financial problems and

 

fortunately they, all but 1, stopped the interest almost immediately. T

 

he 1 that didn't was RBofS who continued to add interest and late payment charges for the last 2 years!

 

Can we claim the interest and late charges back from them?

 

They have passed the debt onto a DCA

- if we can claim them back do we ask RBofS or the DCA?

 

Chickenlegs

[42man]

YES claim back all those excessive charges....!!! You need to send a Subject Access Request (they have to reply in 40 days)....unfortunately it will cost you £10 to do this....but you will get all your statements back for the last 6 years.....

 

This is the process....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

This is the Subject Access Request here....(send it by recorded delivery)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

[42man]

Chicken legs.....I would also send a request for your credit agreement to the other credit cards too....send the request with a £1 postal order for each, and send them by recorded delivery, if they can't produce your agreement within 12+2 working days they are in default of your request and they cannot enforce the debt legally...at least you will know where you stand !!

 

It is letter 'N' from here...(don't hand sign it either)..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[Chickenlegs]

Hi 42man, yes have sent CCA requests, by Recorded Delivery, to 7 of them this week. Will track them and wait the 12+2 working days. What are the 2 extra days for? Sorry, for all these 'silly' little questions but we need to understand exactly how long we should wait.

 

Chickenlegs

[42man]

No problem Legs.....the '2' extra days are days grace to allow for our fine postal service to deliver the requests !!

[Chickenlegs]

Hello again, we sent out 7 CCA requests last week and have tracked them with the Post Office - 5 have been delivered but the 2 to Link just say they are still trying to deliver! Possibly because its a PO Box eh?

 

Will let you know if and when we get the CCAs or, better still, the time runs out.

 

Both feeling a bit better knowing that we have this group behind us!!

 

Bye for now.

Chickenlegs

[Chickenlegs]

By the way, have noticed in the Debt Terminology section under CCJ it says "........

...................when you have failed to keep to an original agreement with the lender

and not made any attempts to come to an agreement for repayment".

 

I now have a CCJ with Arrow Global through Copes Solicitors although I have paid them,

without default, for the past 2 years (which they admitted). Can I appeal against it?

 

Chickenlegs

[42man]

Legs....i'm moving your thread to the debt collection forums, where you will not only find some useful information, but you may also get some more input from others in similar situations....

[Chickenlegs]

Thanks 42man - just hope we can get some advice from someone out there.

 

Chickenlegs

[Chickenlegs]

Have just received this reply from Cabot re CCA request:

 

We acknowledge receipt of your request under sections 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Cabot Financial Group is not obliged to provide this information but we are pleased to help and have already requested the documentation for you from the original lender.

 

Cabot Financial does not accept the statutory fee required under section 77 and/or 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and as a result has returned the fee for £1.00 that you have sent.

 

We anticipate that we will be able to provide this information within 12 days. In the event we are unlikely to obtain this information within those time limits, we will write to you again.

 

Yours sincerely

......................................

 

 

A question: Is this good or bad?

 

Another question: Is the clock still ticking or do they have another 12 days?

 

Look forward to hearing from anyone....................

 

rdgs

Chickenlegs

[42man]

If they want to enforce the agreement then they will need it.....as for the 12 days, then they are in default 12+2 days after the request hits their doormat and they haven't provided it....

[Chickenlegs]

Thanks again 42man - looks like theres only you around to answer our problems!!

[42man]

Keep us posted CL....you will get some more input here especially as we know one of the DCA's you are dealing with....

[Chickenlegs]

Hello again, have just received a reply to our CCA request from Goldfish (this was originally taken out with Morgan Stanley).

 

Thank you for your request for information on your account under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act").

 

Please find enclosed a copy of the executed agreement, a certified copy of your application, a signed Statement of the state of your account and current terms and conditions applicable, in accordance with Section 78 of the Act.

 

If you require further assistance etc. etc...........

 

This letter hasn't even been typed on Goldfish letterhead!!

 

The copy Agreement sent has Goldfish at the top left hand corner but has been printed over the word 'Credit' of the heading 'Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974' - it looks as though someone has photocopied the word 'Goldfish' onto the page.

 

Other than that it looks like an Agreement. It has the headings, Key Financial Information, Repayments, APR, Other Financial Information, Interest Rates etc. etc., a box Your Right to Cancel, another box Cancellation Form. No signatures anywhere though!!

 

Then near the bottom righthand side is printed 'This page and the enclosed Morgan Stanley Card Conditions form your copy of the Agreement. Please keep them for your records'.

 

All comments, opinions, arguments welcomed PLEASE.

 

regards

Chickenlegs

[postggj]

HI CHICKINLEGS

post your agreement onto your thread minus personel details to be checked

 

google photo bucket

its free

[Chickenlegs]

Hi postggj - good idea but I don't have a scanner!

 

Chickenlegs

[42man]

You could photo it if you have a camera....(but delete the personal details on it if you can CL).....this may also help you too...

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment
  

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

[Chickenlegs]

Thanks 42man. Have taken these photos - have attached them, but can you read them? Can't figure out how to use photobucket - hope this will do.

 

CL

[42man]

Sorry CL....it is too small....

[Chickenlegs]

Can anyone guide us through Photobucket please????????????? We have our photos on there but don't know how to get them onto our thread in here? (Please bear in mind we are OAPs and not technically minded like you lot!). Words of one syllable come to mind.

 

Thanks in anticipation

CL