Complaint about Police behaviour...

[legalpickle]

Hi All,

 

It's now my turn to ask for assistance from the amazing people in CAG. Any assistance would be much appreciated on this issue.

 

I had an incident with Greater Manchester Police today. I am fuming, frustrated, angry, annoyed, dejected, depressed and insulted about this incident and want to take it to the top whatever it costs or takes.

 

I am not going into details about the complaint here, because I'm not asking for advice on if to make a complaint or not or whether anything that happened was reasonable or not, because I realize that if I did that could start a flame war.

 

Because of the injury caused I am not sure if I have the emotional strength to deal with this myself. I do not have a member of family or friend that is an option to handle this complaint for me.

 

I therefore want to retain a Solicitor. I know that I can search on the Law Society website for Solicitors or call the Law Society, but the search criteria are very narrow and normally gives a list of 20-40 firms that apparently deal in that area of law, but when calling them most of them, if not all of them, deal in similar issues but not what is wanted. I don't want to spend hours on the phone to find a Solicitor to help me and get even more dejected in the process.

 

Please can anybody recommend a Solicitor in Greater Manchester [preferably North Manchester] who is not expensive who can deal with the matter, or a relatively easy way to find this out?

 

All constructive advice is welcome. I have decided that I intend to take it to the top whatever the case, so please don't waste time by advising not to take the complaint or to reconsider.

 

Ta,

legalpickle

[MrShed]

I dont see what it would create a flame war....it would be advisable to get the opinion of your peers on this one, as if you are that angry and annoyed you will find it nigh on impossible to be objective about the situation. Up to you at the end of the day though.

[MrShed]

Perhaps more to the point, you have to inform us WHY a solicitor is appropriate. What law are you hoping to show has been breached? Theft, assault, civil contract law etc? Without this information, we cannot recommend a solicitor, as we do not know which area of law they are required to specialise in.

[legalpickle]

I dont see what it would create a flame war....it would be advisable to get the opinion of your peers on this one, as if you are that angry and annoyed you will find it nigh on impossible to be objective about the situation. Up to you at the end of the day though.

 

As you say it is up to me at the end of the day. I disagree that I cannot be objective, but am looking for a Solicitor who I believe and hope, would give me objective advice.

 

Perhaps more to the point, you have to inform us WHY a solicitor is appropriate. What law are you hoping to show has been breached? Theft, assault, civil contract law etc? Without this information, we cannot recommend a solicitor, as we do not know which area of law they are required to specialise in.

 

I don't know whether I wasn't clear enough in my post, or you just haven't understood. Either way, I will explain again and go into very slightly more detail.

 

It is to make complaint about behaviour of Police officers. It is not to do with a major investigation such as rape or murder, but a civil dispute and the way they treated me in the process of this dispute.

 

There are Solicitors that specialize in complaints about Police forces starting with taking the complaint to the police force's Professional Standards Department, if necessary appealing to the Independent Police Complaints Commission and if necessary - though this is unlikely - submitting an Application for Judicial Review and going through the Judicial Review process.

 

I am looking for the contact details of such Solicitors.

 

MrShed: A personal request please. When you post another post right after your first one before anybody has responded to your first post, it would be easier if you edited the first post and added the text for your second post. This would cut the length of the thread and when and if the thread gets longer, this really makes a difference. Thanks for your understanding.

[MrShed]

Without knowing the nature of the breach, I fail to see how we can advise on a solicitor, as we do not know what the allegations are, and therefore have no knowledge on which specialist area of solicitors we should draw upon.

 

Do you really need a solicitor to proceed via PSD and IPCC?

[legalpickle]

Without knowing the nature of the breach, I fail to see how we can advise on a solicitor, as we do not know what the allegations are, and therefore have no knowledge on which specialist area of solicitors we should draw upon.

 

Do you really need a solicitor to proceed via PSD and IPCC?

 

A "breach" as such is an incorrect description of the incident. This is not about theft by an officer or issues between them in civil contract, but their behaviour towards me both as the original complainant and subsequently as a "suspect".

 

No, one doesn't need a Solicitor in order to make a complaint to the PSD or IPCC, but my understanding is a Solicitor's involvement could assist the chances of something occurring and potentially compensation.

 

If I dealt with it myself as an individual I have concerns about how seriously the complaint would be handled.

[MrShed]

Fair enough - sorry, not meaning to ruin your thread, just trying to get enough info for someone to point in the right direction .

 

Personally, dont know of anyone in that area who would touch it - what it may be worth you knowing is that solicitors CAN be reluctant to go head to head with the police, as itcan for obvious reasons make it difficult for them later.

 

That said, I wish you the best of luck and hope you can get it resolved.

[legalpickle]

Fair enough - sorry, not meaning to ruin your thread, just trying to get enough info for someone to point in the right direction .

Ok. I understand. Thanks for trying .

 

Personally, dont know of anyone in that area who would touch it - what it may be worth you knowing is that solicitors CAN be reluctant to go head to head with the police, as itcan for obvious reasons make it difficult for them later.

I think that till a few years ago you may have been right, but since the obvious deterioration in the behaviour of the police forces and general HM Government, I think people are more willing to take them on.

 

That said, I wish you the best of luck and hope you can get it resolved.

Thank you for your good wishes. All thoughts help as well as constructive advice. Sorry you couldn't help me but I do appreciate the effort and if you think of anything that may help, please don't hesitate to post.

[seftonview]

If you were to go ahead with your complaint in this way - namely retaining a solicitor to pursue a formal complaint, you'd be advised to use one of the firms with specialist departments for complaints against police. Off the top of my head, I'm aware that Russell, Jones & Walker have an excellent department, and Christian Khan are well-reputed as well.

 

I would strongly suggest you consider not making a formal complaint though; complaints to PSD/IPCC have a very uncanny pattern of being drawn out as long as possible, even with solicitors involved, and rarely are dealt with by the police in the best way. It will probably be a better option (and more satisying) to go straight ahead with action to bring a civil claim; you will have the immediate benefit of dealing with a Judge to establish the facts, rather than a colleague of whomever you're complaining against.

 

HTH mate

[legalpickle]

If you were to go ahead with your complaint in this way - namely retaining a solicitor to pursue a formal complaint, you'd be advised to use one of the firms with specialist departments for complaints against police. Off the top of my head, I'm aware that Russell, Jones & Walker have an excellent department, and Christian Khan are well-reputed as well.

 

I would strongly suggest you consider not making a formal complaint though; complaints to PSD/IPCC have a very uncanny pattern of being drawn out as long as possible, even with solicitors involved, and rarely are dealt with by the police in the best way. It will probably be a better option (and more satisying) to go straight ahead with action to bring a civil claim; you will have the immediate benefit of dealing with a Judge to establish the facts, rather than a colleague of whomever you're complaining against.

 

HTH mate

 

Thanks for your advice seftonview.

 

One issue is the emotional aspect that I am extremely angry at the officers involved and want them disciplined. A civil claim [which I hope would be settled without court proceedings to save me the further emotional and physical hell] would hopefully get compensation - which I want and would be very happy with - but not necessarily result in the officers involved, some of whom were community support offices, being disciplined which I really want to happen so that it affects them like it has affected me.

 

I spoke to the PSD and they said that realistically a complaint would take between 1-5 months with them, but I doubt that they - working hand in hand with the coppers - would do any good and believe it would have to go to the IPCC which would take another several months at least.

 

How do I deal with that issue as well as the compensation issue without going through hell?

 

What does "HTH" stand for?

 

Have you heard about Irwin Mitchell? Anything good or bad?

 

Thanks ever so much for your support seftonview, sometimes that's what's needed the most .

Edited September 9, 2008 by jonni2bad

[seftonview]

I haven't heard a great deal about Irwin Mitchell vis a vis complaints against police, and I haven't to my mind come across any substantial cases to which they were representing a party either.

 

I can see you're quite demonstratably bothered by whatever has happened, could you PM me with brief details, just so I have a ball-park idea of what they've done wrong? I might be able to direct you to some information of use then.

 

HTH means hope this helps.

 

SV

[MrShed]

Just as an FYI LP - if the police DO discipline the officers, they are legally obliged NOT to divulge this information to you, as this would breach Data Protection - certainly to my knowledge. Just a heads up pleased that someone is able to help though!

[legalpickle]

I can see you're quite demonstratably bothered by whatever has happened, could you PM me with brief details, just so I have a ball-park idea of what they've done wrong? I might be able to direct you to some information of use then.

 

I am typing a PM now and have been for the past hour or so. It's very stressful so am pausing a lot, so will take me some time.

HTH means hope this helps.

It does. Ta.

 

Just as an FYI LP - if the police DO discipline the officers, they are legally obliged NOT to divulge this information to you, as this would breach Data Protection - certainly to my knowledge. Just a heads up pleased that someone is able to help though!

 

You are wrong on this occasion. I called the IPCC and then the PSD in Greater Manchester Police and got a call back from the Duty Officer - a Constable Walmacks. Both the IPCC and Constable Walmacks told me that the decisions of the PSD and IPCC are at minimum disclosed to the complainant and their representation. The step up is disclosure to all involved and the step up is public disclosure. All results are disclosed to the complainant and any representation, whatever the result.

 

I asked about the Data Protection Act and apparently it is considered extremely relevant to the complainant and would defeat the purpose of the complaint if the results were not divulged, how would the complainant know whether to appeal against the PSD decision to the IPCC without the results?

[MrShed]

Fair enough lp

[ScarletPimpernel]

Off the top of my head, I'm aware that Russell, Jones & Walker have an excellent department

 

I have had professional dealings with RJW, and have found them excellent. However, you may wish to know that they are the Police Federation's solicitors.

[europa16]

LegalPickle,

I wasn't in the least surprised when I read your post and noticed it was GMP. A member of my family has been on the receiving end of their total incompetence and paid for it with a broken arm. Unfortunately, he didn't have the emotional strength to go through with a formal complaint. So, I would just like to say good luck with your complaint against the muppets, and I hope you get the outcome you are looking for

[legalpickle]

LegalPickle,

I wasn't in the least surprised when I read your post and noticed it was GMP. A member of my family has been on the receiving end of their total incompetence and paid for it with a broken arm. Unfortunately, he didn't have the emotional strength to go through with a formal complaint. So, I would just like to say good luck with your complaint against the muppets, and I hope you get the outcome you are looking for

 

Ta europa. I'm not sure how much emotional strength I'll have to deal with this. Several people have told me that they think the two most incompetent forces in the UK are the Met and GMP [GMP is third largest force, not second though].

 

Sorry to hear about your relative, but frankly not surprised.

 

I'm typing a confidential breakdown of what happened to seftonview, but considering how stressful it is, it is taking me time. I also had a 24hr blood pressure monitor on during the time of the occurrence and till this morning so it was very difficult to type, and now, I'm having hell from UPS:(. I sent a package to a friend in Israel and it's gone missing:(!

 

If this hell within the UK and every part of it continues I'm emigrating as soon as I can, I hate this place with a passion now !

[davethorp]

I would strongly suggest you consider not making a formal complaint though; complaints to PSD/IPCC have a very uncanny pattern of being drawn out as long as possible, even with solicitors involved, and rarely are dealt with by the police in the best way. It will probably be a better option (and more satisying) to go straight ahead with action to bring a civil claim; you will have the immediate benefit of dealing with a Judge to establish the facts, rather than a colleague of whomever you're complaining against.

 

Speaking as someone who lodged a complaint against the police for an incident that happened in March this year which still hasn't been resolved beyond getting the odd phone call trying to push local resolution rather than taking the complaint further, I agree 100% with this post

[letshelp]

Hi Legalpickkle,

Sorry to hear of your experience with the boys in blue. To obtain the disciplinary action you want, you will have to make a formal complaint agaisnt the cops involved. I would use civil remedy as a last resort having exhausted their complaints procedure first. Even if you take the cops to county court and win, it does not mean that disciplinary action will automatically follow, without a formal complaint the cops will consider the matter closed. In my opinion for what it is worth, (not much I am frequently told) A solicitor at this stage sounds like a very expensive option as you can make the complaint yourself free of charge. I have a few friends who are cops and they tell me that a complaint via a solicitor carries no more weight anyway, It is of course, your choice how you wish to proceed. I think you are doing the right thing by writing the events down so that you don't forget important points in the future.

Best regards

Edited September 11, 2008 by letshelp
typos - too much beer last night

[legalpickle]

Hi Legalpickkle,

Sorry to hear of your experience with the boys in blue. To obtain the disciplinary action you want, you will have to make a formal complaint agaisnt the cops involved. I would use civil remedy as a last resort having exhausted their complaints procedure first. Even if you take the cops to county court and win, it does not mean that disciplinary action will automatically follow, without a formal complaint the cops will consider the matter closed. In my opinion for what it is worth, (not much I am frequently told) A solicitor at this stage sounds like a very expensive option as you can make the complaint yourself free of charge. I have a few friends who are cops and they tell me that a complaint via a solicitor carries no more weight anyway, It is of course, your choice how you wish to proceed. I think you are doing the right thing by writing the events down so that you don't forget important points in the future.

Best regards

 

 

Thanks for your support letshelp - and everybody else here.

 

One problem [of many problems !] I have is that I am not sure I could handle a hearing at the PSD or IPCC against the damned coppers without sufficient help and representation - even then I am doubtful about my ability to emotionally handle the issue.

 

That's the main reason I'd want a Solicitor. I'm not sure I can handle the whole thing myself.

 

I also feel entitled to damages for what happened, and a PSD/IPCC matter would not recover damages, whilst a civil claim may.

 

I want heads to roll but I also want to be compensated!

[letshelp]

Hi LP,

If you make a formal complaint now, that does not proclude you from any civil action you may wish to take in the future, but, if you make a formal complaint and then issue proceedings against the cops, they will put your complaint on hold pending the outcome of your civil action.

Its just a thought, I note that you write you don't have a family member or friend that couyld assist you with this, what about a CAG member near where you live. I note that you sent a pm to Seftonview perhaps he/she could assist.

As an afterthought if you make a complaint you are a long way from an actual hearing by which time you might have the strength to tackle this matter.

Whatever path you choose I wish you the best of luck.

regards

[legalpickle]

Hi LP,

If you make a formal complaint now, that does not proclude you from any civil action you may wish to take in the future, but, if you make a formal complaint and then issue proceedings against the cops, they will put your complaint on hold pending the outcome of your civil action.

I understand. This was explained to me by the duty officer at the PSD of GMP - Constable Walmacks [the people I spoke to at the PSD, him and the receptionist were the first people - and only - people I have spoken to at GMP who were apologetic, helpful - I think - and respectful. My worries are still there though, I was only querying at the time, not making a complaint.]

Its just a thought, I note that you write you don't have a family member or friend that couyld assist you with this, what about a CAG member near where you live. I note that you sent a pm to Seftonview perhaps he/she could assist.

Whilst I have immense respect for the many helpful and supportive CAG members and all those who have posted supportive and helpful messages on this thread, I don't know any CAG member who could help personally. It would be difficult for me to trust anybody new, especially where I would have little or no recourse to action if something went wrong [which I would have with a Solicitor] and especially where I have had prior problems with depending on people, I thought were reliable - such as family members.

This is of course absolutely nothing against anybody in CAG. As I wrote above, I have immense respect for most fellow CAG members, and definitely all those who have posted supportive and helpful messages in this thread. I personally have trust issues, so would rather take on a Solicitor than an individual, but the value I place on the recommendations and advice of CAG members in this thread cannot be exaggerated.

 

As an afterthought if you make a complaint you are a long way from an actual hearing by which time you might have the strength to tackle this matter.

I would definitely hope so, but I would rather know from the start I have the support at the hearing than be scared the whole way along of going alone.

Also, whilst it may be unfounded, I am also scared of any officers potentially doing anything against me when they find I would have made a complaint. With a Solicitor involved I would feel more secure. Whilst jonni2bad was right to remove the word "corrupt" from one of my previous posts, as no corruption has been proven, that does not mean to say that I believe that they aren't corrupt - the exact opposite is true. I have lost all possible respect for coppers and think they are corrupt as can be.

 

Whatever path you choose I wish you the best of luck.

regards

Thank you! All support and good wishes are welcome!

[Rob S]

. I have lost all possible respect for coppers and think they are corrupt as can be.

 

Are you saying that on the basis of one incident that you are labelling every police officer in the country corrupt?

[davethorp]

Are you saying that on the basis of one incident that you are labelling every police officer in the country corrupt?

 

Probably on the basis that all the police do is deal with traffic accidents and have a drugs raid every now and then.

 

Try reporting an actual crime to them and they are either not interested or fob you off with it being a civil matter

[Rob S]

Probably on the basis that all the police do is deal with traffic accidents and have a drugs raid every now and then.

 

Try reporting an actual crime to them and they are either not interested or fob you off with it being a civil matter

 

You obviously have a very in-depth knowledge of what police officers actually do:rolleyes: