settlement offer confusion...

[TETSUO]

I recently reduced my payment from £300 a month to just £20, as I can no longer afford to maintain the payments at this level, and the debt is not going down at all. This action caused a wave of letters, postcards, etc, etc to land on my doorstep.

MBNA are about to default me, and I have a case for Bankruptcy or an IVA (my outgoing are more than my incomings). If they decide to go ahead with the default, my credit rating will be screwed, anyway, so this is an option.

I called MBNA tonight to offer them a “full and final” settlement on my account. I have debt to the tune of nearly £11,000 and offered them a full and final settlement figure of £7,500.

I have been able to get £7000 together from a friend/family member on a “pay it back when you can” agreement.

MBNA said to call them back when my money is in my account and to complete a budget sheet, which they will check on by carrying out a credit check.

I told them that this offer was conditional, and that my credit file should reflect no adverse information, and that it should be marked at “settled” (full and final)

They said they couldn’t do that and that it would say “partially settled” or something along those lines. They said they could only say “settled” when 95% of the debt is paid.

What should I do?

I am out of the country on business for 3 weeks as of this Wednesday, and would like to get this sorted…

Help L

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello TETSUO!

 

What should I do?

 

Start by not trusting them at all...that would be a good place to start that would!

 

7.5k is a lot more than they would sell to a DCA, so bargain hard with them. They are feeling the pinch like everyone else.

 

Have you gone through the CCA Request and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) issues already?

 

If not, perhaps a CCA Request would be the first step, and I'd also send them a SAR as well to make sure you see everything they have associated with any Agreement they may hold.

 

I think you have the upper hand, as few people can wave 7.5k at the MBNA, so you are quite unique, much as they won't want you to know that.

 

I think there are Full and Final Template Letters on CAG, but do find them, as you must get them to agree to all that you want before you hand anything over to them.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[TETSUO]

cheers

[Hoose]

I offered them 3.1 on a 4.1k balance. they carried out the credit check and took my incoming/outgoing over the phone.

 

I had to chase them a couple of times, but they did come back and accept the offer.

 

My advice would be, stay reasonable, be polite and state your case, there ARE cases where they will listen, and help.

 

hope this helps

[TETSUO]

but what was left on your credit file?

[Hopeful1]

Hi Tetsuo.

 

Please don't rush into anything with MBNA. I would take heed of Banker rhymes with's post.

 

How old is this debt?

 

If you do a CCA request and there is no agreement, this leaves you in a good position to negotiate on YOUR terms, as without an enforceable agreement they cannot chase you for the debt. In turn you are in a better position to negotiate the adverse credit markings.

 

Whatever you decide to do, don't rush and GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. If you only agree matters over the 'phone you will have no comeback if there are any issues later on.

[TETSUO]

just concerned that i am getting close to default status...

[Hopeful1]

just concerned that i am getting close to default status...

 

The trouble is, there's no point rushing this, borrowing all that money, only to find they can still chase you for the rest of the balance at a later date.

 

Have a look at the stickies in this forum which covers default removal. It may help if you can see how to rectify any adverse info they may put on your file, that they may not be legally entitled to do (hence CCA request)

[banker_rhymes_with]

If you have not already done so, you must get a CCA Request off to them, and back that up with a full S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as well, to get the whole picture.

 

The MBNA threaten all sorts of things, defaults, life-time unemployment, defaults, pound of flesh, defaults, plague of ants in your pants, defaults...

 

...did I mention defaults?

 

The problem is, if they want to default, they will, and they may not even tell you when they do, no Default Notice, nothing.

 

So, there's no point fearing what you cannot really control. I suspect they will come over all nice once you start talking money. Ignore the Call Centre minnions, and get that message to the clowns at MBNA who can actually make a decision. The minnions just want money, offer them 6.5k and they'll want 7.5k, offer them 7.5k and they'll want 9k, offer them £10,999.99 and they'll want all 11k. They can't be reasoned with, you need to go further up the MBNA food chain.

 

Start at 4k and negotiate up from there...but only if they have an Enforceable Agreement that is!

 

Thus, you need some ammunition, so a CCA and S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) are vital to let you see exactly where you stand with them.

 

Having 7.5k to play with does put you in a very strong position. By comparison, the rest of us are fighting the MBNA with just a tin of beans and a prayer!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[macie]

What they are offering you is a "short settlement". Details of this will stay on your file for six years. I know, from experience, that they offer "short settlements" at 30%. The problem is if you want to get the "short settlement" removed from your credit file within six years you will have to pay them the remainder. Don't trust them. A full and final settlement is always the best.

[Hopeful1]

, the rest of us are fighting the MBNA with just a tin of beans and a prayer!

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Oh how that made me smile! And there have been times when the tin of beans has been a push

[Multay]

Hi,

 

Here is the F&F letter... I just wondered if Banker could clear something up. I have read a few times that when making a F&F you should do thids through a third party but I can't remember why...Do you know????

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: 4563210025897412

 

We write with reference to the money which you are claming on the above account.

 

We can confirm that we are unable to offer to pay the money which we owe in full. However, I can raise £775 and I want to offer this as an ex−gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released for any liability.

 

We also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full.

 

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

 

We look forward to receiving your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

Hope this helps.....M

[Hopeful1]

This link here takes you to a post by Sequenci regarding f & fs

[Multay]

Thanks for that (and to Sequenci)...I can't help thinking that people should be aware of this!!!..M

[dave354uk]

I had a similar problem with MBNA, they couldn't produce a valid CCA, so legally the debt was unenforceable. I ended up having a conference call with some of their top compliance people and we thrashed out an amicable agreement, without any adverse marks on my credit file.

 

Push for a CCA before you agree anything, if they cannot provide this why are they processing your data?

 

Also, do not bother with the call centre (collections) idiots, they are on commission for how much they collect, the bigger fish know all about what they can and can't do.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Oh how that made me smile! And there have been times when the tin of beans has been a push

 

My tin of beans is empty but, turn it upside down, and it doubles as a nice little drum for whenever I'm feeling musical!

 

See, no matter how dire things look, there's always a little ray of sunshine if you look hard enough!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[TETSUO]

thanks guys. You've all given me lots to think about.

 

I feel a bit guilty that you are livign on beans, but believe me that the 7.5 k I have will have to be paid back, so I am trying to do the best with what I have really..

 

Gonna send the CCA.

 

With regard to the SAR, I did this once before and claimed the money back, other than this being usefull for that perpose, what use is it in this scenario?

 

Cheers

 

oh, I had another conversation with them tonight, and despite the fact that my outgoings are over £300 higher than my incomings each month, and my debt is over £40,000, they said that I could afford to pay them "pro-rata" "pro-rata" "pro-rata" (he was like a stuck record)

 

He was unable to explain how I find over £300 from nowhere each month, and he got a stroppy with me in the end...

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello TETSUO!

 

He was unable to explain how I find over £300 from nowhere each month, and he got a stroppy with me in the end...

 

Ah, I can see exactly what the problem is here....

 

...you are speaking to them on the Telephone!

 

Big mistake. Now, stop that at once!

 

But, seriously, the Telephone is their banking weapon of choice. You play straight into their little fantasy world the moment you make the mistake of thinking they are reasonable enough to be worth speaking to on the Telephone.

 

My advice is to forget the Telephone as far as any banker is concerned, but especially as far as the MBNA are concerned. They just can't be trusted on the Telephone...they'll just make up little stories ranging from the MBNA is an American Bank so only American Law applies, to the MBNA are a Telephone Bank so can only communicate by Telephone (quickly ignoring the truck loads of written Threat Letters they send out each day)!

 

Keep everything in Writing from now on, and send them the Telephone Harassment and No Visitors Letter, i.e.:

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have very recently received from your company. Please take note that I deem your actions to be personally harassing. All inbound Calls and Messages are Logged and Dated, and any Messages left are Recorded. It has been our private, family and business Policy for several Years now to avoid using the Telephone when handling financial matters. In view of this, we will never answer Account Security Questions over the Phone rendering any inbound Calls from your company totally pointless (Data Protection Act 1998 ).

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only. This Notice applies to any and all of our dealings with your company.

 

Furthermore, after taking advice, I am of the opinion that your pursuit via Telephone is in clear violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 and also the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 Sections 1-3 as well as breaching a number of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report any further Harassment actions to various regulatory authorities, not limited to the Financial Ombudsman Service, Trading Standards and the Police. This Harassment Warning applies to any and all dealings I may have with your Company, irrespective of the alleged Account in question. I require that all Communication with me must only be made in Writing.

 

In the event that you intend to escalate the above Harassment to include Doorstep calls by your Employees or your Agents, please be advised that under OFT Rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have absolutely no wish to make an appointment with you. There is no need, as written communication is quite acceptable in Law.

 

Please note, there is only an implied license under Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore, take note that I again revoke license under Common Law for your Employees, or your Agents or your Representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, then you will be immediately liable to Damages for a Tort of Trespass and Civil Action will be taken.

 

That may not stop them from calling, but it draws a line in the sand on Harassment. If they elect to cross that line, just resign yourself to keep Logging and Recording any Messages. If you do take any Calls, just ask for the Caller's FULL NAME, or the FULL NAME of the Manager who Authorised the Call and hang up. The Police need FULL NAMES to prosecute, that's why you need to know this. The Police can't prosecute a Company, but can prosecute an individual or Manager. If you gather a handful of names, all pointing at one Manager, then that Manager is the one responsible, even if they made no Calls themselves. A pattern of Harassment via several employees means the Manager can't hide behind the excuse that it was just one rogue employee acting in isolation.

 

OK, that should help get another piece of this Campaign jigsaw slotted into place I hope.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[Hopeful1]

 

I feel a bit guilty that you are livign on beans, but believe me that the 7.5 k I have will have to be paid back, so I am trying to do the best with what I have really..

 

 

Please don't feel guilty! I think BRW and i have a similiar sense of humour, which i'm guess, is how we survive the sh*t.

 

In difficult times you have to grab any lifelines you're offered, which is exactly what you're doing. We all support that, which is why we've been frantically posting, as we didn't want you to waste this chance to get yourself sorted Don't forget, we've played with MBNA and we know they don't play fair.

 

Let us know how the CCA request goes

[TETSUO]

Hello TETSUO!

 

 

 

Ah, I can see exactly what the problem is here....

 

...you are speaking to them on the Telephone!

 

Big mistake. Now, stop that at once!

 

But, seriously, the Telephone is their banking weapon of choice. You play straight into their little fantasy world the moment you make the mistake of thinking they are reasonable enough to be worth speaking to on the Telephone.

 

My advice is to forget the Telephone as far as any banker is concerned, but especially as far as the MBNA are concerned. They just can't be trusted on the Telephone...they'll just make up little stories ranging from the MBNA is an American Bank so only American Law applies, to the MBNA are a Telephone Bank so can only communicate by Telephone (quickly ignoring the truck loads of written Threat Letters they send out each day)!

 

Keep everything in Writing from now on, and send them the Telephone Harassment and No Visitors Letter, i.e.:

 

 

 

That may not stop them from calling, but it draws a line in the sand on Harassment. If they elect to cross that line, just resign yourself to keep Logging and Recording any Messages. If you do take any Calls, just ask for the Caller's FULL NAME, or the FULL NAME of the Manager who Authorised the Call and hang up. The Police need FULL NAMES to prosecute, that's why you need to know this. The Police can't prosecute a Company, but can prosecute an individual or Manager. If you gather a handful of names, all pointing at one Manager, then that Manager is the one responsible, even if they made no Calls themselves. A pattern of Harassment via several employees means the Manager can't hide behind the excuse that it was just one rogue employee acting in isolation.

 

OK, that should help get another piece of this Campaign jigsaw slotted into place I hope.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

I get a kind of sick satisfaction from talking to them on the phone. I don't back down, I am always super polite, but question everything they tell me, I am a sucker for detail and it freaks themout. As I said, he just got stroppy and ended the call. I got nowhere, but felt so good I went up the pub for a beer

 

I will, going forward, keep everything in writing though....CCA going off tomorrow

[TETSUO]

Please don't feel guilty! I think BRW and i have a similiar sense of humour, which i'm guess, is how we survive the sh*t.

 

In difficult times you have to grab any lifelines you're offered, which is exactly what you're doing. We all support that, which is why we've been frantically posting, as we didn't want you to waste this chance to get yourself sorted Don't forget, we've played with MBNA and we know they don't play fair.

 

Let us know how the CCA request goes

 

Thanks for that. Looking forward to the upcoming encounters with MBNA. I don't scare very easily and don't really need credit for the next six years.

I will pop the 7.5k in my saving account (once I've dusted it off) and see what happens

[Hopeful1]

Thanks for that. Looking forward to the upcoming encounters with MBNA. I don't scare very easily and don't really need credit for the next six years.

 

That's what i like to hear

 

Will look out for your posts.

[TETSUO]

quick update.. sent cca request for Virgin/MBNA credit cards on the 29 August, and went on hols for neary 3 weeks. I expected to come back to something...but...nothing?? Just a letter asking me to phone them and a couple of statements.

 

So, the 12 days is well up, and the calender month is well under way. At which point can I demand that thet freeze interest and stop aplying charges?

 

Cheers :o)

[Hopeful1]

Hi Tetsuo, you actually only need to wait the 12 +2 working days now.

 

I'll post a link at some point, i seem to have lost mine!

[angel_1]

hiya Tetsuo

 

am subscribing, and can i pls reassure you that banker and hopeful have been helping me out with the likes of MBNA and its thanks to them that ive got myself sorted and ONLY in writing is my mantra now - lol

 

believe us and i think you do really, but mbna are just muppets

 

i have my own threads started on my journeys with them and they have already sent me current terms and conditions with a supposed illegible cca, so this week, will be writing to them this is not acceptable

 

ive had a call this week and was told they are a telephone banking as i well know, i replied already told you in writing only, and she told me they would continue to call me, and i replied "well no one will answer the phone" and surprising since wed no one has called me from mbna

 

maybe they found my letter,,,,so you see all in writing gives you the papertrail and also the legal duties they have to endure, otherwise down the line a harrasment claim will be processed by me once i have all the recordings and calls made by them documented.

 

Good luck and keep updating and im sure we will get through this madness

 

ciao for now - laters MAZ