PCN, City of Wakefield Metropolitan District Council

[Kholoshian]

Hi all,

 

Sorry this may seem like a real newbie question, but what is the difference between an SCM (standard charge notice) and a PCN or ECN?

 

The reason i ask is this. I had a ticket left on my car whilst visiting my mothers doctors surgery to dicuss her recent death. I certainly wasn't aware of any pay and display system in force - but i got one anyway. The reason for my question is that i couldn't find any info on the issuing councils website about appealing against an SCM - only an ECN (excess charge notice). My ticket isn't an ECN it's an SCN - this is confusing - can i appeal or not?????

 

heeeelllllpppp!!!! please

 

My ticket has the following info on it- I've written it exactly as it is - numbers xxxxx'd.

 

Blah Blah Council

 

Standard Charge Notice

SCN Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

To the driver of the vehicle registration : XXX XXX

you are informed that Parking Attendant: XXXX

noticed at 13:40 on 28/07/2008

at Nowhere Road, Nowhereville

that your vehicle was:

Not displaying a valid ticket (off street)

 

FOR WHICH YOU ARE REQUIRED

TO PAY A STANDARD CHARGE

OF £45.00 WITHIN 14 DAYS OF

THE DATE OF ISSUE

(see over for making a payment)

 

Name and Address of Driver

please print the full name and address of the driver

at the time of the offence

 

TITLE: FULL NAME:

ADDRESS:

 

 

 

POSTCODE:

 

Tax Details:

Make: MG

First noticed: 13:33

UNDER SECTION 47(1)A OF THE ROAD TRAFFICE REGULATION ACT 1984, IT IS AN OFFENCE FOR THE DRIVER OF A VEHICLE WHO HAS LEFT THE VEHICLE IN A PARKING PLACE TO FAIL TO PAY THE STANDARD CHARGE.

 

 

 

==================================================

 

On the back is just the 4 ways to make a payment, ATP/Internet or by Post or in person, followed by the appeals process - see below.

 

 

APPEALING AGAINST A PARKING OFFICE (ECN) ONLY

If you believe this Excess Charge Notice (ECN) has been issued incorrectly you can appeal to Parking services, quoting the ECN number and vehicle registration, within 14 days of the date of issue.

 

1. in writing to blah blah council

2. email to blah@blahblahcouncil.gov.uk

3. online.

 

 

I don't know if this clarifies the situation - any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Cheers

 

Kholo

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I Googled "ROAD TRAFFICE REGULATION ACT 1984" and found this:

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=2223862

 

I then searched "Excess Charge" and that comes up but "Standard Charge" does not. I was not surprised at this as I've never heard of a "Standard Charge".

 

In your shoes I would be inclined to write to the council and ask them where in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (or other law or regulation) do they get the lawful authority to issue and enforce a Standard Charge Notice.

 

Now to your question.

 

An Excess Charge Notice (ECN) is part of the old criminal system and the failure to pay is a criminal matter dealt with by magistrates.

 

A Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) is issued under the decriminalised system by local authorities. Failure to pay, ultimately means after due process that funds can be recovered as a civil debt. There is now a four tier appeal process:

1) Informal reps to LA (within 14 days)

2) Formal appeal to LA (after issuance of Notice to Owner)

3) Appeal to Independent Adjudicator (after LA issue Notice of Rejection)

4) Request for review of Adjudicators decision (in certain circumstances)

 

PCN also gets used by private parking companies as an abbreviation for "Parking Charge Notice" and other things. These are a different matter altogether.

[Kholoshian]

Hi Bernie,

 

Thanks for all the info - certainly clarifies some of my questions.

 

Does the fact that this ticket says that it's a 'Standard Charge' mean that it is misworded in the eyes of the statutes that they are relying on?

 

Doe that make sense? - basically can i appeal against the ticket on that basis?

 

Thanks all

 

Kholo

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I wouldn't appeal that it is misworded, I would ask what gives them the authority to levy and enforce a "Standard Charge Notice".

 

For all I know there may be a bylaw but I think you are entitled to know and ask the question. When you get the answer you can decide what to do.

[nero12]

I wouldn't appeal that it is misworded, I would ask what gives them the authority to levy and enforce a "Standard Charge Notice".

 

For all I know there may be a bylaw but I think you are entitled to know and ask the question. When you get the answer you can decide what to do.

A standard charge notice is the same as an excess charge notice,

 

check here DMBC Error Message

 

and look down where it says

What is an Excess Charge Notice?

 

There are a few of these car parks where I live. They will pursue them the same way as an ecn

[Kholoshian]

Hi all,

 

I have been given a parking ticket called a 'Standard Charge Notice' SCN not a PCN. It also says it relies on section 47(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. I challenged it but they rejected it and said they would not withdraw the notice and that i must pay within 14 days.

 

I haven't had a 'Notice to Owner' form to make formal representations.

 

I thought that from 31 March 2008all councils had to to follow the parking enforcement framework contained within Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004, or can they choose not to?

 

I'm totally confused as to whether or not i can appeal to the Traffice Penalty Tribunal as nothing seems to have the followed the normal course of events. Is this council taking the mick or can they do what they want?

 

Help please someone.

 

Many thanks

 

Kholo

[lamma]

some still use RTRA 1984. TPT not applicable. magistrate's court is route for these.. danger there..

[Kholoshian]

How can they choose to use the RTRA 1984 - i don't understand - surely there is a legal requirement to follow the parking enforcement framework contained within Part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004.

 

Still confused!!!

[lamma]

there is no compulsion to use TMA 2004. CPE has to be applied for (and granted), as with DPE before it.

[Rob S]

Who actually issued this penalty notice?

[Kholoshian]

City of Wakefield Metropolitan District Council

 

Why?

[Rob S]

It wasn't clear from your original post if it had been issued by a local authority or a private parking company who might have been trying it on. If the local authority have not opted for decriminalised parking then it effectively means that the only way you have of challenging the ticket is to go to a magistrates court.

[Kholoshian]

Ahh i see why you asked now Rob!

 

Oh well - i guess i'll have to pay up then. Bloody councils are a law unto themselves.

 

Just for the sake of a full picture here, let me tell you what happened.

 

I was visiting my mother's doctors surgery to hear the explanation of the coroners report on my mum's death. It's not my local surgery so i had no idea that there were any parking charges in force and i didn't expect there to be as i have never experienced that before at any surgery.

 

So, i pulled up right outside the surgery and went inside. Came out half an hour later and 'bingo' - ticket! I honestly hadn't noticed any parking notices but to be honest my mind was on other things. I explained all this to the council department hoping for a little leniecy - but no luck.

 

So, it looks as if my luck is out again - not been a good year so far.

 

Thanks for all the advice and info

 

Kholo

[Mossycat]

Which street was it?

 

Wakefield had to refund a lot of parking tickest last year for non compliance and there are still many roads incorrectly signed which invalidates the ticket

 

Mossy

[Kholoshian]

The ticket say 'Stuart Road, Pontefract Parking Place'.

 

To be honest i knew that the carpark outside Morrisons (which is on the same road) was Pay and Display but why would anyone think that outside a doctors surgery was pay and display.

 

It makes no sense. I'm not skint and trying to avoid a £1.50 charge for goodness sake. If i had been aware i would clearly have bought a ticket. What ever has happened to common sense?

 

Is there a way of finding out which roads are incorrectly signed or what makes them incorrectly signed?

 

Cheers all

 

Kholo

[lamma]

take pictures - post them up here. or better yet on tinypic and post the links.

[Kholoshian]

Yeah i could but unfortunately i have to pay by tomorrow according to the letter i received so i'm gonna be out of time.

 

Anyonw know any good stalling tactics?

 

God! i'm getting desperate now - but to be honest it's just the principle more than the money now!!!!

 

Kholo

[lamma]

you have probably left it too late to get a defense case together then - if one could be found. better to pay this now than to go the court I fear.

[patdavies]

Maybe not.

 

Under the 1984 Act, the driver is liable, not the RK. If you fail to pay the ticket, they will write tot he RK.

 

It is usually only after a failure to pay them that a further letter requiring the driver details is sent.

 

Even then, there will be time to mount a defenceto present at any court appearance.

 

In truth, we need to see scanned and washed copies of all correspondence that the OP has.

[Kholoshian]

yeah - i know - only just got back from holiday

[Kholoshian]

Excuse my ignorance - but what's the RK? Is it registered keeper?

[lamma]

good point pat. my bad.

[crem]

Excuse my ignorance - but what's the RK? Is it registered keeper?

 

yes