Tigerbaby / Capquest (Clydesdale)

[Tigerbaby]

:confused:I'm having major problems with CapQuest Debt Recovery, who've bought a debt I only partly acknowledge from Barclay's, who had bought it from Clydesdale. It had all started with me signing a course agreement with the Instructor College (owned by LVG Ltd), whose secretary arranged a one year interest-free loan with Clydesdale for me to pay the course fees (£ 3000) up front. About 9 months into the course I've sustained a trigger thumb on my left hand because as instruced, I kept applying the handbrake whenever I stopped the car for more than 1 minute. In April, I asked them for a refund which they refused after the date for repaying the loan had passed in June. I went to a solicitor who's never received any reply from either the Instructor College or Clydesdale. Once he had closed his file they started harrassing me again. I've sent a letter to CapQuest today (recorded delivery) requesting the credit agreement and a detailed breakdown of the account. I also found out today that my credit rating must have been impacted but don't know yet when or by whom. I've written to the OFT and Trading Standards and also forwarded my entire file to Watchdog but nobody seems interested enough to actually advise me what to do or, to further investigate. I'm trying to keep panic at bay but it's not easy.:-?

[tiglet]

Hi tigerbabyWhy did your solicitor close his file if he had not had any response?

 

i would personally be tempted to send a LBA to the instructor college and send Capquest an "in dispute" letter.

[Tigerbaby]

Hi tiglet,

 

My solicitor closed the file because under the circumstances (no response to his letters whatsoever) he was anxious that I should not send "good money after bad".

And lo and behold, about two weeks later he received a letter from LVG Ltd with a handwritten "apology" by the typist attached to it, saying that "my Director dictated this on 28th August but I must have overlooked it until now (17/9)." This director ends his letter by saying "...should your client have surrendered her license because of her disability, which under law she needs to advise the DSA is she is medically unfit to drive, then we would of course consider a refund."

Well, in real life nobody with a couple of decades driving experience applies the handbrake every time the car stops for more than a minute but for the part 2 test, I would have to and needless to say, I can't.

 

Now, what's a "LBA"? And what's an "in dispute" letter?

 

By the way, my solicitor also complained about the total lack of continuity in the driving sessions as I've frequently had different instructors who've just taken me for a drive with another student in the back, nothing structured or aimed at training me for what the examiner would expect. Also, I've usually had to wait 2-4 weeks between sessions. Now, after googling "the instructor college ltd, complaints" I've found a forum on the web (gumtree forum) where quite a number of people voice exactly the same complaints. Trouble is, they and I seem to be running against a brick wall with the instructor college and its umbrella company LVG Ltd, and especially with the finance company(ies). I mean, in my case Clydesdale claimed they'd never received my solicitor's correspondence.

Then, Clydesdale apparently grew tired of answering my letters in which I've written that I find the amount of £ 5189.65 offered for early settlement (response to first letter) and £ 5203.84 (response to second letter) excessive and sold the debt to Barclay's. They've kept quiet for about half a year and in May sold the debt to CapQuest.

Now, I've got those sharks on my back and for whatever reason, Watchdog doesn't investigate, the OFT replied to me saying that they "can't provide consumers or businesses with advice about the fairness of individual terms or contracts, or assist individual consumers in their disputes" and advised me to send the whole file to Trading Standards, who are presently trying to digest it all (I've called them yesterday to find out if they've received it). It's almost as if everyone I've contacted so far (including the solicitor) was somehow scared to rattle their cage too much. Now, why would that be, I wonder.

 

Any help/ideas are very much appreciated.

[tiglet]

OK, well I would firstly wait to see whether they have a CCA before you do anything else.

 

An "in dispute" letter is simply that - one telling them the account is in dispute.

 

A "LBA" is a letter before (court) action, usually giving 14 days to resolve the matter or you will take a company to court.

 

Let us know how capquest respond to your CCA request.

[MARTIN3030]

Agree Tig.

will move the thread and retitle.

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

 

Strangely enough, today I received a letter from CapQuest dated 26/6, sent 2nd class, with the following text:

 

"I write in response to your recent letter the contents of which have been noted.

Unfortunately I am unable to comment on the dispute you have raised as this was prior to our involvement and at the time the account was passed to us we were unaware of any existing query. Therefore we are closin the account on our system.

Thank you for taking the time in trying to resolve this matter.

Yours sincerely

 

(copied signature)

 

Ms J Simms

Quality and Assurance Officer"

 

Now, my letter requesting a CCA was posted 1st class recorded delivery on 26/6 (!). Therefore, what's apparently prompted them to send the above letter was the one I had written to their "solicitor" H L Legal in Redditch, B98 8BL, who had threatened me with court action "because I had failed to reply to CapQuest's letter dated 30/4 (there hadn't been any) ", which was utter b....... as I had definitely responded to their letter dated 1/5. To this effect, I've written:

 

"Thank you for your letter of 12 June 2008.

Yet, I am afraid that you have been misinformed as I certainly have responded to the letter from CapQuest Debt Rexcovery Ltd dated 1 May 2008 as evidenced by the attached copies. Their most recent letter dated 28 May 2008 did not require any response.

For your information, I hve sent the details of this contract dispute including all supporting documentation to the Office of Fair trading and the Trading Standards Service.

Sincerely

(my signature)

 

Cc/CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd

The Office of Fair Trading

Trading Standards"

 

Something's apparently rattled their cage but first of all, I don't trust these guys (LVG, Clydesdale, Barclay's, CapQuest, the lot), secondly, someone has damaged my credit rating (haven't got the reply from Equifax yet) and last not least, my left thumb has started to stiffen up again probably because the effect of the steroid injection I had received end of last year is wearing off.

 

I'd be very grateful for your further advice.

[tiglet]

At the moment, I think you just need to hang fire and see what transpires.

 

You've got rid of Capquest, but this doesn't mean it won't be passed onto another DCA. HOWEVER, whether they have closed the account or not, they still have to provide you with the CCA.

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

 

probably depends on whether they can find another outfit at least as shady and willing to buy the debt from them.

 

Assuming they've got my request for the CCA yesterday, I should get a response on 10 July (does Saturday count as a working day?) but I don't hold my breath especially after having read the posts on this forum. So for the time being, I hang in there and wait.

 

:xThe guys I really want to get at are the Instructor College aka LVG Ltd. for inadequate training, waiting times in stark contradiction to what I had been assured of ("you can book a session for whichever time is suitable for you; we structure our sessions according to our pupils' time schedule"), unfair contract terms - 7-day opt-out clause to get 100% of your money back, 30-day opt-out clause to get 50% back BUT you can have your first driving session only after having passed the theory test and until then, you haven't got a clue as to the "quality" of the training because the theory is home study. How likely is it that someone prepares for, books and passes the theory test for driving instructors within the first 30 days after signing the course agreement "around his/her existing work schedule":confused: - and their refusal to compensate me for the injury I've sustained as a consequence of following their instructions.

 

When their delay tactics became apparent after a few driving sessions, I had the impression that the instructor course was nothing but a guise under which they sold the loan and if, as I suspect, they get a commission for every loan they sell, then their commission will increase the moment the repayment date has passed and 29.8% interest p.a. is added. Thus, it made perfect "business" sense to let me wait for the decision of their "appeal panel" until the repayment date had been and gone.

Also, according to a business report I bought from the web, LVG Ltd. are up to their eyeballs in debt with Barclay's and Lloyd's and I suspect it's no coincidence that the loan is provided by Clydesdale for, one of the letters I got from Barclay's starts:

 

"Re: Barclays Partner Finance Fmly Clydesdale"

 

They've probably got some cozy deal along the lines of "you rip off your pupils and we let you off your debt a little bit at a time" (rob Peter to pay Paul).

 

The 60 million $ question, though is, how to prove it (and stay alive)

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

 

Just received another letter from Capquest, dated 27/6:

 

"Balance: £ 6381.54

Debt Purchased From: Barclays Partner Finance fmly Clydesdale

 

We thank you for your recent correspondence.

We have requested a copy of the agreement and statements from our client. These will be forwarded to you as soon as we receive them from our client.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Lelanie Grobler

Collections Administration Department

0870 084 3510"

 

What's that supposed to mean? If they've purchased the debt they ought to have the agreement and statements, right?

 

Any suggestions and comments on how to go about LVG Ltd will be highly appreciated.

[kev100]

Hi Tigerbaby,

 

I have had some experience in taking companies to court who do not supply what they promise,

 

First have you got anything written down of what they were supposed to supply to you, i.e. a training structure, if you take them to court the best way is to get every scrap of evidence against them because when they see the court claim and read it they will probably (after stretching it out) pay up, I have made several claims against large companies and won every one, even though they stretch it out to the very last minute in the hope that I would fold. The last thing a company wants is a county court claim registered against them.

 

You can easily make the claim online and it costs about 50 quid (maybe a little more now) https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp . Also claim for the interest that you should have been paying for the loan, and for the court costs.

 

The important thing is to make sure that you are in the right, and they have not supplied the goods or services that they said they would.

 

You will need to say why you think they have not supplied what they say they have, i.e., list times they trained you, and more importantly when they didnt and were supposed to (was this because they cancelled or because they didnt have enough instructors to fulfil their training promises ?). If they trained you in a non linear fashion i.e. a very interrupted training schedule so that you were unable to learn to the best of your ability then this could also be included in the claim, along with them not supplying a regular trainer .

 

I realised along time ago that in situations like this its best not to mess with solicitors, but to make the claim yourself, its quicker, cheaper and more direct, solicitors like sending lots of expensive letters back and forth between each other .. there is no need for this.

 

don't be afraid to make a claim this way, its very easy to do.

 

But first send them a letter stating that if they don't refund you the money that you paid them within 7 days that you will take them to the small claims court for breach of contract and failing to fulfil their part in the agreement because of lack and inconsistent training and inadequate supply of a training instructor, also mention that you will also be looking to make a separate claim for your injury sustained while training. Send recorded delivery.

 

when they don't respond or don't refund the payment (because they wont at this stage) send them another letter informing them that you have now started the court claim and they will be bound to repay the course fees, interest payments and court costs that will be in the county claim.

 

Of course its up to you, make sure you have a good case (your solicitor seemed to think you did) and good luck.

 

p.s. it may be worth mentioning on the other websites where people are complaing about them that you are suing them through the small claim court, its always good when a big rip-off company like this gets lots of court claims ... I did it with one company about 5 years ago (simplyabargain.com) where I got 10's of people in the same situation to make a claim, all I were corresponding to directly got the money back, but eventually the company closed down because I think more and more people started to make claims.

Edited July 2, 2008 by kev100

[tiglet]

i think you should follow kev100's excellent advice in terms of LVG.

 

Capquest are basically saying "buggar, we haven't got an agreement to ahnd so let's hope the original creditor has". At least, this will keep them off your back for a while.

 

If they do produce the agreement, if you have already started going down the court route, you can explain to them (by letter) that the account is subject to legal proceedings and is therefore in dispute. If they continue to press, report them to TS ad the OFT (plus the judge wouldn't look to kindly on it)

[Tigerbaby]

Hi kev100,

Hi Tiglet,

Thanks very much for your excellent advice; trouble is, I'm a bit confused as to how and what to claim from LVG. The £ 3000 of the loan they've arranged for me went directly into their account and when they refused to refund me anything due to the injury (which according to DSA regulations, they should have), I didn't repay a penny and went to the solicitor, instead. Now, Clydesdale claimed they never got any of his correspondence and kept upping the charges.

Could I e-mail the course agreement, loan agrement and whatever else you might think useful as attachment to this site and would you please have a look?

Also, I've received another letter from Capquest today, dated 28/6:

"Further tot recent contact with our office and your request for further information in relation to the above account, we would confirm that your account is now on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain the information required.

If you have any proof of payments or correspondence that would assist with your query, please forward these documents, with a brief covering letter, to our Collections Administration department, so that we can resolve this matter a soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

(Yet another illegible copied signature)

(No name)

Collections Administration Department

CapQuest Debt Recovery Limited"

Are these guys trying to foxtrot with my head?

And more importantly, what am I supposed to do now? Remind them that I've already sent them all details of the contract dispute on 21/5, which they've acknowleged?

Don't know whether I'm more scared or furious at the moment.

Any additional first class from both of you will be highly appreciated.

[tiglet]

What did your solicitor advise that you could reclaim?

[kev100]

Also, I've received another letter from Capquest today, dated 28/6:

"Further tot recent contact with our office and your request for further information in relation to the above account, we would confirm that your account is now on hold for 28 days whilst we obtain the information required.

If you have any proof of payments or correspondence that would assist with your query, please forward these documents, with a brief covering letter, to our Collections Administration department, so that we can resolve this matter a soon as possible.

 

Dont send them anything, you dont even have to reply to them now, the ball is in their court now to proove you owe the debt, so just sit tight at the moment.

 

As Tiglet said, what did your solicitor advice you can claim, to be honest I would go for everything that you can, these Muppets have cost you alot of time and money. But I would be tempted to make 2 separate claims, one for the refund and one for the injusy, just to keep things clean and simple.

 

One very important thing, quote the regulations in any correspondence with them, again and again and again so they know you are on the ball.

 

Can you quote that regulation here for me to have a look at please.

[kev100]

Edit ...

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

Hi kev100,

 

Thanks a lot for calming me down re. Capquest!

My solicitor didn't ask for any particular amount, probably because due to their total lack of response prior to him closing the file it didn't come to that.

He suggested (to me) to ask for £ 1500 which would mean that I paid for part 1 (theory, home study:mad:) and part of part 2 (unsatisfactory driving sessions leading to injury:mad:) but I don't see why I should pay them even that much.

Now I'll try to attach the course agreement (hoping that my internet connection won't break down) and you'll notice that it doesn't state the amount of the course fees but instead, states a value of £ 2995.00 at the bottom, right next to Account No. S4994.

I'll also try to attach the relevant page of the DSA regulations (ORDIT, business code of practice). I think that especially paragraphs a) and b) could be relevant in my case.

Let's hope it'll get through and you can read it from the scan.

 

Could you point me to some sample letters to throw at LVG? I'm s...scared of making even the slightest mistake.

[kev100]

its a little small and cant make out anything ..

[Tigerbaby]

Hi kev100,

 

If you can't enlarge it, another possibility would be for me to e-mail it to you as attachment. For that, I'd need your e-mail address.

 

I've just tried to copy and paste it but for some reason, you can't paste anything onto here (or maybe I couldn't find out how to do it).

 

I'd really like you to have a look at this but for now, I'll quote the DSA regulations, paragraphs a) and b) which I think most relevant in my case:

 

"An organisation shall:-

a) Provide a full copy of their training course, contract or agreement and any other associet terms and conditions and give an opportunity for any prospective trainee to study them away from the premises and seek independent advice, if so desired, before they are required to sign any document or make any payment.

b) Have a refund policy in circumstances where a Trainee cannot continue with the course at the time or at any reasonable time in the future on serious medical grounds confirmed in writing by a doctor that prevents them from being able to drive or instruct and such refund shall be limited to the savings that an Organisation would make by not having to deliver the remainder of the training course in accordance with the Guidance on refunds provided by the Office of Fair Trading."

 

If you let me have an e-mail address, I could also send you the belated letter from the diretor of LVG, as well as the course agreement and maybe the initial letter from my solicitor but to quote all of them here just isn't possible except in bits and pieces.

 

Please let me know what you've decided.

[tiglet]

Try photobucket (and make sure there aren't any identifying features)

[Tigerbaby]

Sorry, but where can I find photobucket?

[Brassed off]

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

[kev100]

Hi kev100,

 

If you can't enlarge it, another possibility would be for me to e-mail it to you as attachment. For that, I'd need your e-mail address.

 

I've just tried to copy and paste it but for some reason, you can't paste anything onto here (or maybe I couldn't find out how to do it).

 

I'd really like you to have a look at this but for now, I'll quote the DSA regulations, paragraphs a) and b) which I think most relevant in my case:

 

"An organisation shall:-

a) Provide a full copy of their training course, contract or agreement and any other associet terms and conditions and give an opportunity for any prospective trainee to study them away from the premises and seek independent advice, if so desired, before they are required to sign any document or make any payment.

b) Have a refund policy in circumstances where a Trainee cannot continue with the course at the time or at any reasonable time in the future on serious medical grounds confirmed in writing by a doctor that prevents them from being able to drive or instruct and such refund shall be limited to the savings that an Organisation would make by not having to deliver the remainder of the training course in accordance with the Guidance on refunds provided by the Office of Fair Trading."

 

If you let me have an e-mail address, I could also send you the belated letter from the diretor of LVG, as well as the course agreement and maybe the initial letter from my solicitor but to quote all of them here just isn't possible except in bits and pieces.

 

Please let me know what you've decided.

 

I have PM'ed my email address to you,

 

It would certainly seem that you have a reason on grounds of your injury to claim back some of the money, do you have the contracts and T@C that state their refund policy ?

 

It may be that you claim back some of the money on the grounds of your injury, I would suggest £2000 as you have already completed part one of the course (I think thats what you said), or you could get several quotes from other companies to find out what they charge for completing part one and then deduct that from the £3000. but also put in the letter that if you don't receive a refund or confirmation of a refund within 7 days, and your actual refund within 14 days then you will make a claim in the county court for the full amount including any interest, court costs, your costs and compensation, dont forget to quite the regulation about the injury.

 

The judge may not give the full amount as you have already completed part one before your injury, and of course they will try to counter claim or dispute the claim, which they are entitled to do, but just hold fast and dont give in.

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

 

Could you please point me in the right direction re. any law(s) covering the sale of financial products?

Specifically, can ANY employee of company (A=TIC) owned by company (B=LVG) sell a loan provided by company (C=Clydesdale) on the premises of company (A) without a representative of company © present?

Would this employee have to be FSA registered? Trained as a financial advisor?

With company (B) having a consumer credit license and trading as company (A) but on different premises, would company (A) need a separate consumer credit license to sell financial products on their premises?

Also, as I understand, a client has to be granted a 7 day cooling off period during which he/she can study the respective loan agreement at home or seek independent advice BEFORE being asked to sign it. If this cooling off period hasn't been grantedand the client has been asked to sign immediately, is the agreement still valid/enforceable?

 

Your expert advice will be very much appreciated.

[tiglet]

Sorry sweetie, but I'm not an expert on law - what i know I have gleaned from the site only.

 

I believe they can sell without a representative of C present.

 

have a look here: Financial Services Authority - it may answer some of your questions.

[Tigerbaby]

Hi Tiglet,

 

I've tried the FSA website - zilch - called "consumer direct" who pointed me to the OFT, called them and mightily confused the lady who'd picked up the phone with my two questions. She advised me to e-mail their enquiries department. Done that (last Monday) but haven't received a reply yet.

 

Is there any expert on the consumer credit act on this forum who could answer me?