Hope someone can help please?!?! Fighting a judgement on a HP agreement.

[Shidoshi]

Hi all,

 

I'm hoping someone can help me... I've been fighting many cases over the past two years and this one I lost (I think) today...

 

Claimants (BMW Finance) made application for £53k for the termination cost of two HP agreements.

 

My defense was it was contrary to the CCA, and I should qualify for halves/thirds (As I had been through half of one agreement and a third of the other.

 

Also, the car was sold undervalue.

 

After the judge heard both sides, he came to the conclusion that as it is over the £25k mark, the agreement is unregulated...

 

Judgment was awarded to the claimant today for £45k on two HP agreements, with dispute of the £8k undervalue claim.

 

A date after July has been allocated for a hearing for the additional £8k.

 

I ask the following, and hope that someone can help?

 

With the Summary judgment of £45k, would/could this be enforced now? or after the hearing for the additional dispute?

 

Is there anything I can do to fight this with it being 'unregulated'?

 

The CCA 2006 01/04 does away with the £25k clause... would this be an argument I could take on board to appeal the judgment?

 

Either way, there is no conceivable way I could pay this... the judge asked about assets, and I told him I have nothing to my name... my wife owns the house her, myself and three kids live in. Could they take this away?

 

There are other cases in the pipeline (some more promising than others), and another judgment which has not been finalized. I have been avoiding bankruptcy because I can't afford the cost, and have been holding on tooth and nail so far.

 

Should I hold out? or borrow money from family and simply file for personal bankruptcy?

 

I just want it to end now... the last two years have just aged me too much to appreciate the finer things in life (like a blocked drain!)

 

Thank you all for your help and assistance.

 

PS: Spoke the the National Debt Help Line, and they said it's a legal issue now, so passed on the details of The Community Legal Advice Team, from whom I am awaiting a call back...

[spamheed]

If the house and property is not in your name, they would not be able to touch it,

 

was it ever in your name?

are any of the debts in joint names?

 

if the answer to both of these questions is no, then they cannot touch it.

 

Did the judge allow time to pay the judgement, or did he list it for immediate payment?

 

Bankruptcy has some benefits if the subject has no assets and a minimal chance of paying off the debt and most debt collection agencies would avoid this path like the plague, as they will get nothing.

 

If the judge allowed time to pay and set a repayment level which is within your means, even if you're well paid, paying off £50k in this manner would take a long time

[spamheed]

don't go down the route of borrowing more money, even from family members.

 

at best it causes unecessary tensions within families and at worst deepens the level of debt

 

it may be worth taking legal action regarding your judgements in a bankruptcy situation

[Shidoshi]

 

was it ever in your name?

are any of the debts in joint names?

 

Did the judge allow time to pay the judgement, or did he list it for immediate payment?

 

 

Hi there Spamheed,

 

Panic attack city pal...

 

Yes it was in my name initially, but my wife purchased it off me as I couldn't afford the mortgage anymore. It was done so almost two years ago to which she paid a cash deposit, and was a proper sale and not a transfer.

 

The Judge didn't order payment or payment terms, but only mentioned a summary judgment for the amount of £45k, and 42 days to put statements together to defend the additional £8k that I'm arguing (when I'd like to appeal the judgment in totality), to be listed for trial after July sometime.

 

I really can't lose the house, so not sure what to do from here especially with the other cases in the pipeline.

 

I was hoping someone may have information about any clauses in unregulated agreements that allow termination so I can fight on.

 

Does this make sense? as sometimes I don't make sense to myself!

 

Thanks so much.

[spamheed]

Did your partner pay the full market value for the property, this is something both the courts, receivers or other interested parties will ask, as there have been instances where goods are "sold" at either way less than their proper value, or another manner with intent to deceive prior to declaring bankrupt, or CCJs proceedings take place.

 

I know it's hard to see the end of a situation like this, but putting it into perspective, if the property is in the wifes name and the monies have been correctly accounted for, the documents correctly filed etc. what can they realistically do to you?

 

If you only have £1, then how can they make you pay more? they can jump up and down and demand until they are red in the face, but if you've still only got £1, nothing changes. they can't take my goods for my brothers debts, they can't take your wifes property in settlement of yours (as long as the paperwork was done properly) They don't have debtors prisons anymore

 

worst case scenario.

 

they get full judgement for £54k

 

You cannot pay it off in one go because you personally don't have any assets

if they allow you time to pay, then you will be given the chance to submit income and expenditure forms and enter a repayment plan to pay what you can reasonably afford. it may be that you pay a minimal amount for the next 800 years, that's their problem not yours.

 

I have a CCJ (before I was more aware) for about £15k, and because of their greed and arrogance they get less than £30 a month. I can live with that. It may affect things further down the line, but I'll deal with that when it comes. At the time, I was terrified, with hindsight, I smile at their stupidity

 

Take heart mate, all is not lost just yet

[Shidoshi]

Did your partner pay the full market value for the property, ...

 

 

Hi Spamheed,

 

Yes she paid full market value at the time with a full 10% deposit - No shortcuts were made and everything was done properly.

 

I really appreciate what you're saying, I really do...

 

I'm hunting around at the moment to get all my paperwork / receipts together in preparation for the bigger picture, and I appreciate that all equity drawn at point of house sale needs to show accountability.

 

It's more the fear factor of how far will they go? what will they look for? will they drain the kids accounts? all the thoughts hit you at once, and makes you wanna vomit.

 

I wish there was something I could do to take this away for others too... I really do.

 

Saying that, I really appreciate your help and support.

 

Thanks.

[spamheed]

It's never a problem and always a pleasure to help, others helped me when I first found myself faced with financial issues.

 

Just to clarify.

 

If the debt is in your name and your name alone, then only you are liable (with the previously referred to proviso re house)

 

They cannot take the property of anyone else, they cannot make demands of your partner, children or relatives, whether those demands be for payments, full restitution, or even information. as far as the rest of the family are concerned, the debt is yours and they had no gain, nor involvement in your financial affairs.

 

since there will be no direct link between your family and your debt, there can be no liability.

 

If you do go down the bankruptcy, you are literally allowing a third party into your financial affairs, they will manage this aspect of your life for one year, after this, you are free and clear of any debts covered by the petition. this is why your creditors are not suing you for bankruptcy, they get nothing

 

The laws do not allow someone to be persecuted, whether by a creditor, or by a court so try not to dwell on the negatives too much.

 

as mentioned before, they cannot take what you do not have