when is full and final (final)

[fergal71]

a few years ago a loan company said I owed them over £1000 after paying all 60 payments on time. it was made up of charges for letters I never requested and a redemption fee evn though the loan had run its course... I challenged at the time but due to a needed remortgage. they asked me to pay £350 in full and final settlement. obviously I now know these charges to be totally unlawful as with all bank charges etc.... can I still make a claim even though I have paid full and final settlement.....

 

I was hoping I could based on the fact that what I agreed to was unlawful????

 

Any legals out there help much appreciated?????

[Hopeful1]

Hi Fergal. Are you still with the same mortgage company? I only ask because i have had charges added to my account and nearly ended up in court last year due to arrears and these charges. I have decided to wait until i have changed companies before i reclaim, but reclaim i will!!

[crash3903]

full and final - when you agree - when you pay

[fergal71]

hi yes with northern rock this was a secondary loan secured on property... I still need to know if I can claim as company is saying because I paid full and final settlement I have no recourse for claim???? any ideas.. I still believe I what I paid in full and final settlement where unlawful charges....

[tifo]

from my experience, they would offset any refund against the £650 written off as part of the settlement and the FOS will agree if you take it to them.

 

i've had the same with HFC who wrote off £1400 after i settled. I claimed £1300 in charges and they got to keep the whole amount, plus the FOS made me pay another £100 to make up the £1400. My claim with interest was £2900 and i didn't get a penny.

 

The thinking is that you can't claim money that you haven't paid, and you didn't pay £650 from that account.

 

It's never actually written off, it's all there in the loss ledger.

[fergal71]

but any monies owing where only made up of unknown letters and unknown charges... they only came to light at the end of the 60 months. so despite paying all payments on time I still owed them money how can this be so????

 

I paid f+f out of need rather than the knowledge I now I have .... I should have owed them nothing at all..... after paying all 60 payments in full and on time...

 

any advice given with this info would be much appreciated

[Hopeful1]

Hi again Fergal. I've sent a PM to one of the moderators to see if they can offer a definitive answer to your query.

[sequenci]

Hey Fergal.

 

When you say you paid in 'full & final settlement' was this negotiated in writing?

[fergal71]

hi yes but it was before I understood that these charges are unlawful to say the least..I did complain at the time as I could not see how I still owed money despite paying all 60 months on time...All the money they say I owed was made up of letter charges etc that were not even sent to me, they were allegedly sent to mortgage lender etc lots of them and for no particular reason... This is just one tactic this company used to bost what you owed them at the end of the contract.... I was never informed until the end that I owed them any more money only when the remortgage starte dto go through ... I have complained to FLA but I really feel that I was in a difficult position... I needed to remortgage and I could not until I paid off this secured loan.... what can I do????

[sequenci]

Well, on its own, a Full & Final settlement is NOT legally binding at all. The law surrounding this goes back a very long time, to 1602 in fact in a case called 'Pinnel's case'. It was decided that a lesser sum cannot be satisfaction for a greater sum. There are a few things to bear in mind, however, if the payment was made via a third party it could well be binding, also if a solicitor's deed was involved (which i'm sure isn't the case here) it would be binding too. Even if the creditor can provide the paperwork surrounding the settlment it can be argued in law that you can recover the rest of your money.

[Hopeful1]

Well, on its own, a Full & Final settlement is NOT legally binding at all. The law surrounding this goes back a very long time, to 1602 in fact in a case called 'Pinnel's case'. It was decided that a lesser sum cannot be satisfaction for a greater sum. There are a few things to bear in mind, however, if the payment was made via a third party it could well be binding, also if a solicitor's deed was involved (which i'm sure isn't the case here) it would be binding too. Even if the creditor can provide the paperwork surrounding the settlment it can be argued in law that you can recover the rest of your money.

 

Ahhh! That's interesting information, Sequenci. Hopefully good news for Fergal too

 

Could this be used against people if they are offering DCAs full and final settlements for less than the amount the DCAs say is owed? In other words, would others be entitled to chase for it (providing there's a CA)?

[sequenci]

Could this be used against people if they are offering DCAs full and final settlements for less than the amount the DCAs say is owed? In other words, would others be entitled to chase for it (providing there's a CA)?

 

Indeed it is true, which is why it is of paramount importance to ensure that negotiations are made in writing AND the payment is made via a third party. If in doubt you could have a deed drawn up by a solicitor.

[Hopeful1]

Indeed it is true, which is why it is of paramount importance to ensure that negotiations are made in writing AND the payment is made via a third party. If in doubt you could have a deed drawn up by a solicitor.

 

Sorry, 2 more questions, but hopefully the info will help others too!!

 

Does the 3rd party need to be a solicitor or could it, for example, be a CAB advisor or someone from CCCS etc? Would this apply to all debts regardless of the amount owed or to be paid?

[sequenci]

Does the 3rd party need to be a solicitor or could it, for example, be a CAB advisor or someone from CCCS etc?

 

it could be someone as 'normal' as a friend or family member

 

Would this apply to all debts regardless of the amount owed or to be paid?

 

as far as i'm aware

[fergal71]

doesnt help me I am afraid I paid through my appointed solicitor that was doing the remortgage for me.... My argument is that what I agreed to was entirely made up of charges which I believe where unlawfully applied to my account... madness how can i possibly owe money even after paying each and every payment on time for full amount.... ?????????????/