CRB Checks. Who do they help?

[musicsmith]

Hi everyone, I have seen a couple of threads about CRB checks and thought I would start one as I think it is quite an important issue.

I have a criminal record. It dates back to before 1989 when I was a fool! I did a little time in prison but when I came out I knew I would never return. Just for your information, I spent time in Hull prison on remand, a dreadful place, was then sent to Durham where I was given two sets of clothes so we could wear two sets of trousers etc. because it got so cold all the time, even though it was summer and then sent to Armly in Leeds. I have seen prison at its worst! We had to 'slop out' every day. I have had a drink drive since in 1992 but then that is it. (Before you all start on the drink drive thing, I know and I'm not proud of it!)

 

Anyway, I am now a respectable 40 something, home owner, hard working normal person. In fact I am also married to a doctor, grow my own veggies and support various local charities.

 

So here it is. Last year I applied for a job as a chef at a local care home. They needed a CRB. I filled in the form, and it came back with every little thing I had done since I was 18. Including a 'Urinating on a Public Highway' on my 18th birthday.

 

A few weeks ago I was in my local pub talking with a guy who is in there and the subject gets onto CRBs. He then tells me about this guy who has various convictions who applied for a job at the care home. His wife knows the owner! And yes, the convictions were mine!

 

Whatever happened to the Rehabilitation of Offenders act?

 

I TOTALLY AGREE WE NEED A CRB of some sort, however, it is now close to 20 years since I was in trouble with the law, I have never had any convictions for either violence or drugs and there has never been any suggestion that I should not work with either children or Venerable people, such as the elderly.

 

If we want our young people to prosper we need to encourage them. People who make mistakes early in life now have the problem that if they want to get a job which involves a CRB, everything they have ever done will be available to all.

 

I spent 7 years in the army. I now strongly believe that the trouble I got into was as a result of what I did and saw. This is no excuse, however, I see and speak to many other people who are very good people but who dare not get a CRB check done on them.

 

We have a massive problem with re offending. What hope have people got when even their most irrelevant conviction is then shown to their employer, and others!

 

How many of you out there would start to wonder about having a CRB done? you may be 60 years old but all convictions will come up

 

What do you think

[kennythecelt]

Hi musicsmith:)

 

You have managed to turn around your life and have obviously worked hard and contributed a lot to society since you offended. In addition, you have paid the debt to society and appear to have learned from the experience.

 

Congratulations on doing this.

 

It appears that there has been a severe breach of confidentiality and that could be something that you might be ale to pursue.

 

I am not an expert on employment issues including CRB checks.

 

I think you will get more advice if the post was moved to the employment forum. If you would like that arranged, please confirm.

 

Good luck and regards, Kenny:)

[mich7k]

Musicsmith hi,

 

i have just finished working for an Education recruitment agency i did all the admin part of our vetting is crbs and list 99 as well as gtc checks.

 

The company policy for candidates with previous convictions was upto the manger's discrestion and frequency of the offence and time since the last offence. Also on the application for you have the opportunity to inform us of any criminal coonvictions and the opportunity to explain yourself so to speak at interview.

 

Sometimes candidates who had convictions for theft were sometimes rejected to protect them from "getting the blame" if something was to go missing etc.

 

All schools and nurserys have to be informed if the tecaher/nn/ta has convictions.

 

Then it's up to the school. i used to fill out crb forms every day! hope this helps

[Guest louis wu]

If 2 people applied for a job, both perfect for the position but one had been to prison and had a DD conviction (however long ago), I suspect I know who'd I go for.

 

As you say, young people need encouragement, and employing the one who hadn't made the mistakes, seems fair enough to me.

 

I suppose a lot depends on the conviction, but a care home has, by it's very nature, a lot of vulnerable people, and a CRB check is valid.

 

I'm not making personal judgements against you, or suggesting that people who make more minor mistakes should be punished for the rest of their lives, but I do think that some jobs are sensitive enough to know this information.

[musicsmith]

Hi Kenny, can't really talk now but I think you're right and this should be moved to the employment section

many thanks

Steve

[kennythecelt]

No problems Steve, I have asked for your thread to be moved to the employment forum.

 

Catch you later and regards, Kenny:D

[debt4get]

If 2 people applied for a job, both perfect for the position but one had been to prison and had a DD conviction (however long ago), I suspect I know who'd I go for.

 

As you say, young people need encouragement, and employing the one who hadn't made the mistakes, seems fair enough to me.

 

I suppose a lot depends on the conviction, but a care home has, by it's very nature, a lot of vulnerable people, and a CRB check is valid.

 

I'm not making personal judgements against you, or suggesting that people who make more minor mistakes should be punished for the rest of their lives, but I do think that some jobs are sensitive enough to know this information.

these crb checks are just another way for the govt to raise revenue and keep an eye on people, im wondering what happens to all this information? who gets to see it? why? its never yet stopped a paedophile or anyone else from committing further offences, the next step, id cards with everyones little misdomeanors following them through life continuing to kick people in the teeth, spent should mean spent never to arise again

[musicsmith]

I agree with you. Why should anyone get to know about my past? Trouble is I can't even fight this really because although my wife knows all about my past, her family doesn't and so the publicity would be too much. Don't get me wrong, I think places who employ people to deal with venerable people such as schools and care homes should be able to check up on their employees before employing them but it should be more a case of 'Has this person ever done anything against a child or venerable person?' If the answer is no then they should be allowed to work. I guess what I am saying is that certain offences should never be 'Spent' then these could be kept on file. At the moment there seems to be absolutely no point in any conviction ever being 'Spent'

[389shell]

On the flip side MM, my husband has his own business and last year decided he needed a hand. He got LOADS of people in for the interview, experienced, young, old, every kind of person you can think of (had 15 phone calls about it in 1 day). The person he hired? A 17 year old lad who was coming to the end of his community service, had been arrested and charged countless times, and spent the first week at work with his tag on! He never looked back and this lad has flourished and shone.

 

My husband said he took him on because he was the only person who actually looked enthusiastic about the job. I suppose it comes down to the people responsible for the hiring.

 

Good luck, I hope you get the job and it is a shame that you have to carry this around with you after all this time for a silly childish mistake. I will keep my fingers crossed that you get someone like my hubby looking over the applications and doing the interviews.

[389shell]

Just re-read and saw you applied for the job last year DOH!

[demon_x_slash]

Hmm, well, I work in a school at the moment, and wasn't checked out. I have no criminal record, and would certainly pass an Enhanced CRB disclosure, but that's not the point...

[389shell]

Makes you want to rip your hair out really doesn't it? I know I worked in a nursery for nearly a year without a CRB check, everyone thought it was fine because I had a child there

[debt4get]

Hmm, well, I work in a school at the moment, and wasn't checked out. I have no criminal record, and would certainly pass an Enhanced CRB disclosure, but that's not the point...

personally I'd keep that quiet if I were you otherwise you could be out on yer ear

[Allwood]

it would be worth watching Watch Dog last night about CRB checks - one man did one and found 20 things on there that he knew nothing about and other people also had the same experience.

 

This is very worrying as you do not know what is against you name. Does it mean now that to be safe you have to do a CRB check as it an employer does one and find things against you this could end up not getting employment and that is really serious.

[389shell]

Do you remember this happening a few years ago? It was to about 20 people who wanted to join uni, but because of all the mistakes on the CRB checks, and it not being cleared up in time, they couldn't join the intake in that year. I think they were medical students.

[demon_x_slash]

Do you remember this happening a few years ago? It was to about 20 people who wanted to join uni, but because of all the mistakes on the CRB checks, and it not being cleared up in time, they couldn't join the intake in that year. I think they were medical students.

Crapita. Enough said

[davethorp]

Funny this topic should come up with the CRB being on BBC watchdog yesterday for reporting convictions on checks that were nothing to do with the person being checked

[PrettyPaula]

i used to work in social care recruitment and the thing that concerned me about these CRB checks was

 

a) they were done online, just who gets all that info??!

 

b) they were done on people who yes, had a valid visa, but had been here for all of a month... who knows what theyd done in their own country?

 

and they were damn expensive too!

[mich7k]

Like a said before i used to do crb checks in my last job, overseas candidates are required to get a police check from there previous country of residence to cover the time spent in their country and entrance to the uk if they are unable to get the police check then we try to get it for them if we cant get it then we are unable to register them. Not all agencies are this thrrough though

[Warms]

Like a said before i used to do crb checks in my last job, overseas candidates are required to get a police check from there previous country of residence to cover the time spent in their country and entrance to the uk if they are unable to get the police check then we try to get it for them if we cant get it then we are unable to register them. Not all agencies are this thrrough though

 

When I finally got a job in social care after moving to the UK from another country, no one wanted to see my police check from abroad, even though I had it translated and verified.

Instead they did a new check and put in wrong details about where I was born.

Guess what, the check came back clear!

I pointed out to them that the details were wrong. Oooh, they didn't like me doing that! They had me stay at home for another 3 weeks while they rechecked.

Funny thing is, a few new people have started working at my workplace, and guess what? They are already working even though their CRB checks aren't through...!

[Tom87]

Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but it's interesting anyway.

 

I think it's unacceptable that any small mistakes made in your youth come up on an enhanced CRB. I understand certain employers, such as those dealing with the elderly and with children, should be exempt from the ROA, but I don't believe they should be able to find out every little irrelevant detail of your history.

 

I think an employer should only be allowed to find out relevant convictions when dealing with an application, not irrelevant ones. E.g. a bank should be allowed to know about someone's fraud conviction, but not about them being on the sex offenders register for peeing behind a bush. This Nazi register is a particularly nasty one, as the vast majority of people on it are not real sex offenders but they are all tarred with the same brush.

 

Take the man who was at a country pub with his family on holiday. They went in after a long day hiking and fancied a dinner. There was a drunken 18th birthday party going on but there was nowhere else to go. A teenage girl was dancing up on the table when she slipped and fell. The man instinctively reached out and stopped her from hitting the concrete floor with his hands on her buttocks as she was falling. The girl's parents complained and he was cautioned and put on the register for 2 years, and this will come up on an enhanced CRB for life. For potentially saving someone's life by stopping her smashing her head on the concrete floor.

 

Or the many people who are on the Nazi register because of doing things like getting out of their car in a traffic jam and peeing behind the nearest bush out of sight. Then they are put on it because a "child might have seen them."

 

Then there are the people with convictions who are innocent victims of miscarriages of justice. Just because someone has a conviction, it doesn't mean they did the crime.

 

Or even those that are truly guilty, it is unfair to assume that they will carry on with this behaviour. Most people regret what they did and are not going to go on and lead a life of crime. And the conviction is usually irrelevant to the job they're applying for, but they have to declare it anyway, which is unacceptable.

[Sidewinder]

Take the man who was at a country pub with his family on holiday. They went in after a long day hiking and fancied a dinner. There was a drunken 18th birthday party going on but there was nowhere else to go. A teenage girl was dancing up on the table when she slipped and fell. The man instinctively reached out and stopped her from hitting the concrete floor with his hands on her buttocks as she was falling. The girl's parents complained and he was cautioned and put on the register for 2 years, and this will come up on an enhanced CRB for life. For potentially saving someone's life by stopping her smashing her head on the concrete floor.

 

I think I would have insisted on a trial for that one - a Caution involves an admission of guilt, and no way would I have admitted a sex offence knowing that I was innocent!

Dancing on a table in a pub - calls into question the parents and landlord's behaviour for letting her...

 

QUOTE]

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[Tom87]

I also would have insisted on a trial for that one!

 

But there are some "sex" offences, especially computer related, and involving strict liability, where people regularly have no choice but to plead guilty to something they haven't done. A typical example is the very unpleasant charge of possession of indecent images, you know what I mean...where simply having them is an offence and there is very little defence to it. A defence is that you didn't know they were on your computer or on your internet history (you DON'T have to have saved them, you only need to have SEEN them on the screen, even if involuntarily). Many people I have dealt with via the Probation Service are honest citizens who have found images of this nature, and have gone straight to the police about it, believing they were helping. But now the police can say they DID know about them because they told the police about them. They will charge you in 90% of these cases. This is because they are not bothered about stopping abuse and finding the real people behind this unspeakable crime, but they are happy to get an easy and blatantly unjust conviction as it boosts their statistics. If you are unfortunate enough to have something like this pop up on your screen, do NOT tell the police. Seriously consider destroying your computer, as the police's programs may have detected it and there will be a knock at your door, any time between a day and several years in the future. Things like this will normally only pop up if you are on a fairly dodgy but not illegal porn website, but still, it's not illegal, so it's not fair that law-abiding people get dragged into this mess.

 

Sorry to go off topic but it's important!

 

As such, CRB checks are often meaningless because there are so many people who are either not guilty of the crime, or who are guilty in law (through strict liability) but innocent in fact and deed. Then there are those who are truly guilty but whose crimes are completely irrelevant to the job in question and who are absolutely no more of a liability/risk than any other applicant with a clean record.

 

Then you get the tens of thousands of people whose CRB checks have come up wrong and they have been labelled someone they are not, normally due to having the same name or date of birth as someone with a long criminal record.