possession order on my house

[Guest TaffR]

OK so the profit is interest bassed I was paying about £30, grand a year in interset only so in ten years they would have there money back and still hold the security so really and they would have made 100% in 10 years where a building socierty takes interst and repayment so after 25 years they have made just the interst on the loan and at the end have no security also a building socierty uses that interest to service the loan and the costs to the building socierty and to pay investors While the sub prime put on as many administaration charges that they can to supliment their income as you say they are not intersted in you Ours was put out to Eversheds who acted at debt collectors and charged way over the norm for their services also with an idemnity clause in the mortgage contract they cant lose if they should happen not to win in court these indemnity clauses are unfair

 

This one? I am not sure what you need answering, sorry.

[Bona]

so the profit is interest bassed

[Bona]

i appreciate all that you have said and I agree it needs looking into but it will not help the person in court tommorrow also if we get rid of all sub prime lenders there will be amny people who cannot buy there houses what is needed is strict regulation in that field and help for those who need help, there are always people who abuse the system they get what is coming they apeare on this forum occasionaly but they dont stay long

[Guest TaffR]

Hi Bona,

 

Yes, I expect it would be, it will be LIBOR (which they repay their borrowings) PLUS X% = gross profit - costs (servicing etc) = net profit. Overheads are kept to the lowest (like any business) and the whole process has been streamlined (from cradle to grave) very cleverly.

 

There is no magic wand here. Everyone is unique and has unique circumstances that has led to their own paricular situation. There are far too many variables involved.

 

There are people who will, as you say, always be negligent in their financial affairs, there are some that erred and now paying the price and those who had no choice/option available to them that find themselves facing repossessions and it is the courts that needs to filter these out.

 

I don't believe many people entered into a mortgage with a firm aim of defaulting on their payments and that 'lenders' Grrr! should not tar everyone with the same brush. Some people remortgage for different reasons and denied in the prime market go to the subprime. My example was to release further equity for business purposes and although I do not have adverse credit my bank on this occassion could not lend me sufficient enough so each of us are quite diverse but all have one thing in common, in that we are all in this market. Following blood clots through many long haul flights I fell ill and could not pay my mortgage the following month but after that everything would be ok.

 

I had no one to talk too despite the fact that I alerted them 6 weeks ahead and they ignored my telephone calls and never returned them. I now know why. It was the first time in my life that I found that I had no direct or real time control on my finances and more seriously my family's home. I did not like or trust the 'selling' aspect of the process and to find that both the 'lender' Grrr!! and the new company (SPV) were working from the same address (HML, Skipton). Long story, short... they tried to repossess me on my arears, despite payments being made again and worse the judge rubber stamped it!

 

I run a management consultancy firm and never would have dreamt that I faltered into this market and I had been so blind and then I realised there has to be many more people too being conned like this. Hence my now 4 year research.

 

I took them on and won but many others will not be so fortunate or have the facilities that I have and that is why I am here.

 

The information that I'm providing and it is a lot to take in, will help people but first it is important that we know our nemisis and fully understand the processes and market and then know what can be done.

 

There are 3 main people that can change this.

 

Government/Legal

Financial entity

YOU/ME

 

Before copying the research report above I made some suggestions.

 

Did you take out a mortgage thinking firmly that someone should be there to bail you out if you get into trouble with paying? If so, then you will be dissapointed as there is actually no obligation on any lender to do this. They do need though to treat you and your circumstances sympatheticaly (as per CML rules) and of course, I believe at the minimum to have the necessery skills and facilties to enable them to do this.

 

Repossessions should be the very last resort, NOT the first and by the mere fact they thery are allowed to structure in this way, without telling the public show that no consideration has been given to this very important aspect of providing mortgages in the UK. You can see even by the timetables I have attached that respossessions are the first resort and this is further evidence of the unfairness and irressponsibilities of this market. Repossessions were rising at an incredible rate before the credit crunch and over 85% were subprime loans made to unsuspecting borrowers who all had an expectation that they were being 'placed' with a bona-fida mortgage company with the same ethical standards of traditional high street lenders.

 

IT IS CHEATING!! In every aspect and stage of the process for sheer greed and as I keep saying...

 

"Someone forgot to tell the public..." They did not forget, they were authorised NOT to tell us by HM Treasury.

 

Would you have taken out the mortgage if you knew the true extent and ramifications of the type of company you would end up with? That there would be no further equity release in the future, even for emergency purposes? That they would take litigation action from day 1 of a missed payment and refuse to talk to you allowing the problem to worsen and so on and so on? Just on the selling of the mortgage aspect, I would not. The company I took out my remortgage with demonstrated to me that they were a bona fida mortgage lender only now I know they were just orginators (a term that most people would not have come accross).

 

When and why was this thought to be acceptable when it concerns peoples homes, lives and families? This is not a car or a washing machine!!!

 

We find at the very worse moment in life that in this market they do not have these and are paying a lip service to the rules and guidlines.

 

As your mortgage was sold on at the last minute you will not have had a real opportunity to accept the new company and indeed you signed away your rights to do this.

 

This and much more is totally unacceptable and by proactively questioning them up front now and demanding they respond quickly and in detail and make them admit will and can help long before you do fail in your mortgage payments and can form part of your defence.

 

When you go to CAB etc to get advice you have something (even now through all this) to show them and teach them what this market is all about.

 

Which Legal and 99% of solicitors, Law Society and Court assisted entities do not understand this market and have no idea of the information that is being provided here. So they cannot help... Shelter had no idea until I spoke with their directors and still they do not fully understand it. It places Norgen into obscurity again!

 

When you say 'tomorrow', I do hope you don't mean Wednesday? Yes, there is a lot we can do but we do need to change the system and get to the core of the problems (long before the credit crunch) to make a real difference.

 

There is so much more and with everyones permission I will keep posting with the hope that it may just help someone.

 

TaffR

Edited May 14, 2008 by TaffR

[Guest TaffR]

People need to stand up and be counted...

 

Do as much up front and in advance as you can....collect the evidence and tell everyone that you 'feel' and were cheated into taking out this mortgage and duped in so many ways. The FSA agreed NOT to tell the public and hence these 'lenders' Grrr! are being duplicious in their presentation of what and who they are.

 

Were you aware of what an 'orignator' was and/or meant?

Were you aware of the difference between orginator and mortgage company?

Were you aware that your mortgage was accepted in the full knowldege that they would sell it on, securities it which means that it is totally 'locked' for any future changes?

Why didnt they tell you (for those its pertinent too) that your mortgage was going to be with an SPV?

Did you know what an SPV is and the differences between this and traditional type company structures?

Why are you now (without your knowledge) denied any further mortgage advice for at least 6 years?

What are any of the benefits to the borrower in advising them of possible repayment problems? (Contray to all advice provided by CML etc as they do not have the mechanisms in place to advise or help)?

Why do these 'lenders' Grrr! Push you towards CAB etc for advice when they know they are ineffectual and cant help?

Do you feel discriminated by this and particulary now that you are 'classed' in this manner?

Do you feel your human rights have been effected by this process? (Everyone has a right to a remian in their home without undue controls, harrassement etc?

Do you think you have been led into something that has denied you and taken away further control on your life?

Your in a mortgage that has a strangled hold on you for a long time, do you feel this is unfair and that you could of been told a lot more about the ramifications of the mortgage before acceptance?

Do you feel there is an imbalance in the lender/borrower relationship now?

Did your contract state that whether your out of work or ill you still MUST pay your mortgage as this is contray to treating borrowers with fairness and in a sympathetic way...how can they when they are not structured (unknown to you) to do this and will not admit this outright either? Is this an unfair term under the consumer credit act?

 

When was the last time you heard that any loan was sold to another entity? You take out a loan with LLoyds TSB for good reason only to find that 1 week later they sold it to the HSBC who you hate?

 

When did you last find that there were 30+ 'lenders' Grr! in one building all sharing your personal details with each other?

 

Complain to the FSA that you were duped into thinking that the lender was actually a lender

Complain to your MP

Complain to the HM Treasury - tell them this totally unacceptable and why were the public denied this information and allowed these loan sharks to set up in this manner

Complain to the FOS

Complain to your local County Court and ask them why they do not consider CML/FSA rules for lenders when they see that repossessions have been the first resort and you have not been provided an opportunity to discuss your changes in the circumstances nevermind provide (and being denied) a solution

The mere fact that they do not employ mortgage advisors and now it is understood are 'unable' to modify the contract to assist a borrower facing difficulty and now there is the timetable to prove this then ask or take to court with you

Complain to your local newspaper and show the same

Complain to the BBC and ITN and other media outlets

Complain to your local church and bring them up to date about what is happening in thier communities and also to Shelter and CAB....to thier head office and tell them that this practice is totally unacceptable and now everyone can see the real effects on the ecomonmy

 

Speak to a solicitor about all of this and if possible identify a small claim against the lender (£30) and take them to court....they like all companies cannot afford to have a CCJ of thier own and by the way court action shows immediatly (before the hearing) on the company record and this effects them badly.

 

The Norgen case shows that the court can force them to make some kind of arrangement...use this.....force them to change

 

Take back control of your lives, financial affairs and futures and don't let these loan sharks (because that is what they are) continue to destroy.

 

What you will be doing is taking the fight to them before it happens and in advance.

 

In defending your case complain heavily about the treatment and how it does not fit in with CML/FSA rules.

 

Taff R

Edited May 14, 2008 by TaffR

[Bona]

can you arrange to have PMs there are things I dont want to put on forums but wouldlike to share with yo too many guests looking in

[Guest TaffR]

can you arrange to have PMs there are things I dont want to put on forums but wouldlike to share with yo too many guests looking in

 

Yes it is on I think...i have received 3 messages from others so far (took me a while to know this though).

 

I am not sure if it is PM or email they use on this.

 

TaffR

[Guest TaffR]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/139123-if-you-have-mortgage.html

[Guest TaffR]

some goods from the FSA.....everyone should via email/fax/postal - communciation to the FSA their ecperiences and complaints...IT CAN HELP AND SPUR THIS ON AND IN A QUICKER TIME FRAME.

 

FSA looks at UK sub-prime mortgage lenders

[jansus]

I have noticed under some terms and conditons for banks and BS when they talk about the British banking code thatthay say they thay may pas your debt on to a third party - however the third party would also adhere to the code ( which of course is only voluntary!)

 

but if a mortgage debt was passed on and the T&C said the above - subsequent company did not adhere to the code - do you think you would have some ammunition?

[Guest TaffR]

bottom line...do you feel exploited?

[vickson]

My Question is like Bona's

 

How does this help someone in court tomorrow, I am in court soon fighting an eviction order, How can I use some of this to help me get my house back.

[Guest TaffR]

Shelter -

Possible defences

 

 

Your lender can only repossess your home if the court makes a possession order, telling you to leave. In some circumstances, the court may decide that you won't have to leave yet. Even if the court says that you have to leave your home, you may still be able to delay the repossession.

[Guest TaffR]

Even if your lender or freeholder has started court action against you, you should continue to try to negotiate with them as the court process can be stopped at any stage. A local advice agency can help you negotiate with your lender.

[Guest TaffR]

• What is a defence?
  
• Is there a dispute over the amount of arrears?
  
• Can you pay off the arrears before the court hearing?
  
• Is the 'particulars of claim' incomplete or incorrect?
  
• Will your lender be able to prove the claim?
  
• Were you given bad advice?
  
• Do I have another defence?
  

[Guest TaffR]

A defence is a reason you have to not leave your home. You might have a defence if:

• you don't agree that you owe as much as the lender says you do
• you have repaid the arrears before the hearing
• the particulars of claim are incorrect or incomplete
• the lender can't prove why you should be evicted
  
• you took out your mortgage or secured loan based on bad advice
  

If you think you have a defence, you should say so when you return your form of reply to the court after you get the summons.

[Guest TaffR]

Is there a dispute over the amount of arrears?

 

If you can't agree how much you owe to your lender, the judge may adjourn the case and set a new hearing date. This gives you and your lender time to get more information to prove the amount of arrears. For example, the lender should provide proof that payments have been missed and you can show proof that you have made payments.

In the meantime, you can continue to negotiate with your lender and make payments to reduce the arrears.

Back to top

Can you pay off the arrears before the court hearing?

 

If all the arrears have been cleared by the time of the court hearing, the case will be dismissed. However, you will still have to pay your lender's legal costs for bringing the case to court. These will be added to your loan.

Back to top

Is the 'particulars of claim' incomplete or incorrect?

 

If your lender doesn't complete the particulars of claim correctly, the judge may not allow them to present any new information at the hearing. In some circumstances, the claim may be dismissed and the lender will have to reapply to the court to evict you. You should not have to pay their legal costs.

[Guest TaffR]

Will your lender be able to prove the claim?

 

If your lender cannot prove the reason why they want to repossess your home, the court will dismiss their claim for possession. You should not have to pay their legal costs.

Back to top

Were you given bad advice?

 

This defence is called 'undue influence and misrepresentation'. It can only be used in special circumstances. It concerns the way in which the loan was given to you or the advice you were given when the loan was taken out. For example, it may be that you were given bad advice and, had you had correct advice you wouldn't have taken the loan out.

If undue influence and misrepresentation can be proved, the case may be dismissed. This is a complex area of law, so get specialist advice from a solicitor if you think it could apply to you.

[Guest TaffR]

Do I have another defence?

 

The court may decide to adjourn a case or delay telling you to leave if:

• the arrears built up because of illness or unemployment, but you can now make the payments
• you have an outstanding benefit claim that will clear or significantly reduce the arrears
• you are selling your home and the proceeds from the sale will clear the arrears, but you need more time to complete the sale
• you are arranging to clear the arrears soon
• you are having difficulty finding somewhere else to live
  
• you can prove that you will have sufficient funds to clear or significantly reduce the arrears in the near future
  

The court may also look at your agreement if the terms were extortionate. This doesn't just look at the amount of interest you were charged but examines all the terms your personal circumstances when you signed the agreement.

If you feel that your mortgage agreement is extortionate you should contact Consumerline on 0845 600 62 62.

[Guest TaffR]

You won't be automatically evicted because your lender applies for a possession order. If you are taken to court, there are several decisions the court can make depending on your personal circumstances.If your lender does gets possession of your home the court will set a date for you to leave your home. If you haven't left by this date the lender must go to the Enforcements of Judgements Office to get you to leave.

It's never too late to get advice - an adviser may be able to help you present your case in court.

• Application dismissed
  
• Application adjourned
  
• Suspended possession order
  
• Order Granted but with Stay of Enforcement
  
• Order for Immediate Possession
  
• Mallett Letter
  
• Time order
  
• Money judgment
  
• Can the order be changed?
  
• Will I have to pay court costs?
  

Application dismissed

 

The court may decide to dismiss the application if your arrears are small or you have already cleared them. This ruling is rarely used. The court will usually grant a suspended possession order instead.

Back to top

Application adjourned

 

The court may make decide to adjourn the case:

• to give you time to come up with a realistic plan to repay your arrears
• to allow you to resolve any dispute with your lender about the amount of money owed,
• if you are about to get a big payment from the Social Security Agency or from an insurance claim which would will make it easier to pay the debt
  
• to give you time to start making payments which will clear the arrears.
  

You should ask for an adjournment if you need more time to prepare for court.

Back to top

Suspended possession order

 

The court gives your lender a possession order, but it is suspended for a 'reasonable period' of time to give you a chance to pay off the arrears.

It is up to the court to decide what is a 'reasonable' period depending on your personal circumstances.

You will need to draw up a suitable repayment proposal if you are asking the court for a suspended possession order. An adviser can help you draw up a plan.

You will have to go back to court if you miss a payment, or don't clear the debt within the agreed period of time. You can't be thrown out immediately. Your lender will have to go back to court to ask to get the order enforced. The court will usually give your lender possession and you will have to pay for the court costs.

Back to top

Order Granted but with Stay of Enforcement

 

The court gives your lender possession of your home but allows you longer than 28 days to find alternative accommodation. If you can make some payments towards the arrears it may be possible to negotiate a repayment plan with your lender.

Back to top

Order for Immediate Possession

 

The court gives your home to your lender. You must move out within 28 days. If you don't move out within the 28 days your lender must ask the enforcement of judgements office to evict you. You will have to pay any fees the lender pays to have you evicted.

Back to top

Mallett Letter

 

If you know that you can't keep up your mortgage payments you may want to sell your home yourself, rather than having it repossessed and sold at auction. If you need more time to do this, you can draw up a Mallett Letter for the court. This contains information from the estate agent confirming:

• that the property is for sale
• the market price of the property, and
  
• the likelihood of it selling.
  

The court will then give you more time to sell your home. Contact a local advice agency for more information if you wish to draw up a Mallett letter.

Back to top

Time order

 

If you have a secured loan or second mortgage, the court may be able to reduce your payments by either:

• changing the interest rate on your loan, or
  
• lengthening the term of the loan
  

This is called a time order. You will need to tell the judge at the hearing that you want a time order. A time order can only be granted for certain types of loan, depending on when the loan was taken out and the amount you borrowed. If you are not sure whether you can get a time order contact a local advice agency.

Back to top

Money judgment

 

Your lender can ask the court for a money judgment to be registered against you. This allows your lender to recover all of the money owed under the mortgage, not just the arrears. A money judgment may make it difficult for you to get credit in the future.

Back to top

Can the order be changed?

 

You may be able to ask the court to cancel or suspend the order if you feel that the order should not have been made in the first place. This might be because:

• you didn't receive the court papers
• you didn't know you had a right to defend the case
• you didn't attend the court hearing
  
• you didn't reply to the court in time and you had a good reason for not replying. If you had replied the court may have made a different order or no order at all
  

You can ask the court to change the terms of a suspended possession order if your circumstances change. For example, you can't keep up the payments because you have lost your job. It will be easier to do this if you have kept to the conditions and your lender agrees to the change.

To cancel, suspend or change an order, you will need to apply to the court by filling in a specific form. You may also have to pay a fee. The court will set a hearing date when your application will be considered.

Back to top

Will I have to pay court costs?

 

If a lender starts legal action because you are in arrears, the lender will normally simply add the legal costs to your mortgage debt.

[Guest TaffR]

Getting ready for court

[Guest TaffR]

If you are a homeowner, you can only be evicted if the court makes an order telling you to leave. This section explains what happens once your lender or freeholder has applied to the court to evict you.

• First steps
  
• The Particulars of claim form
  
• Completing the Form of Reply
  
• What do I need to do before the hearing?
  
• What if I need more time?
  

[Guest TaffR]

You may have been allowed to stay in your home after a repossession hearing. This may be because there wasn't a good enough reason to repossess the home or because the judge believed you should be allowed to stay to give you time to put the situation right.

• The court adjourned the case
  
• The court made a suspended possession order
  
• Avoiding payment problems in future
  

[Guest TaffR]

More info: http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid=NEWS&articlekey=9081&cat=44-0-0

The top 20 lenders account for 32% of repossessions

125:kensington mortgage company limited (SUBPRIME)

143:swift advances plc (SUBPRIME)

144:db (uk) bank limited (SUBPRIME)

146:ge money home finance limited (SUBPRIME)

156:birmingham city council

159:bank of scotland plc (t/a halifax)

161:blemain finance limited (SUBPRIME)

181:southern pacific mortgage limited (SUBPRIME)

189:ge money secured loans limited (SUBPRIME)

261:bank of scotland plc t/a birmingham midshires (SUBPRIME)

279:ge money mortgages limited (SUBPRIME)

293:gmac rfc limited (SUBPRIME)

293:kensington mortgages company ltd (SUBPRIME)

299:gmac - rfc limited (SUBPRIME)

299:gmac-rfc limited (SUBPRIME)

382:ge money home lending limited (SUBPRIME)

475:abbey national plc

484:lloyds tsb bank plc

523:bank of scotland plc

690: northern rock plc (SUBPRIME)

[Guest TaffR]

Claims Issued are were a Lender after approx. 3 missed payments seeks a possesson order. Suspended Orders are where the Lender is granted possession but not an Eviction Order, this is where the Defaulter comes to an agreement with the Lender on making the payments and clearing the arrears. This agreement would be Legal Binding and if the Defaulter breaks the agreement the Lender can return to court to get an Eviction Order.