The OFT Case

[JonCris]

leecabs ask your friend if this would be a PR exercise only an attempt to redeem what little is left of their reputation or do they really think there's a chance they could lose or both

[Leecabs]

Will do!

[Chromatix]

As a clarification exercise, I have actually just read the 119-page blob of legalese, and there are a couple of points that most people haven't realised.

 

The judge determined that the *present* T&Cs used by the banks do not operate on the "breach of contract" principle when levying Relevant Charges. He said nothing at all about *historical* T&Cs, such as those in effect when I reclaimed my charges in 2005.

 

I get the distinct impression that if he *had* considered these historical terms, he would have found them to operate in the "breach of contract" mode, and thus subject to the "penalty charge" rules in common law. So if you have old charges to reclaim, you may do so under the penalty-charge rules if your T&Cs for the time period in question allow. This is mostly helpful to business claimants.

 

The *other* ruling is that the OFT has free reign to apply the UTCCRs to the current T&Cs and their Relevant Charges. This is *good* because it probably means that the charges will be disallowed or greatly reduced. The judge's reasoning in this matter is extremely involved, but I believe that the banks will find it extremely difficult to wriggle out from under it.

 

Part of the latter decision, for example, is that the Unpaid Item Fee is most certainly not a "fee for a service", because no service is provided to the consumer holding the account. This is plainly obvious to the layman, and that fact formed part of his reasoning. The other Relevant Charges were determined not to be "fees for a service" by a different and more complex reasoning.

[Bookworm]

there are a couple of points that most people haven't realised.

I think you'll find that they have.

BBC NEWS | Business | Slow progress on bank charges

The issue of historic terms and conditions is still wide open

Marc Gander, CAG

;-)

[paulwlton]

I believe there is a hearing next week to consider whether the bank's t&cs previously used are capable of being penalties.

[yourbank]

The historic terms and conditions judgement is next week, I have heard.

[indebtstudent]

I would bet that the vast majority of the claims currently stayed are based (at least in part) on historic terms and conditions.

 

The wording is different in the past T & C's, explicitly stating you must not do this etc, the only institutions which hasn't frantically re written its T & C's is Nationwide.

 

However if the historic T & C's support the contention that the charges ARE penalties what does that mean? The action is the same, surely by changing the wording the banks shouldn't be let off?

 

My main concern is that, through thier own short term greed, banks are now having a very tought time of it. Nobody in power wants to take a shot at the banks at this time.

[texel]

When is more news coming out re the OFT case as I have to go to court on the 11th for a full hearing against BOS and they are going to try for a third time to sist having already lost twice before. Theyb are now telling me that the charges are not penalty charges according to the OFT case:mad:

[JonCris]

texel are you the defendant because if so you can ask that the claim be stayed until a final Judgment no matter what BOS claim the matter is not decided

[texel]

JonCris

Good heavens I am the pursuer not the defendant:)

[JonCris]

Then am I correct in assuming your previous claims didn't reach a conclusion??

[texel]

Provided we are talking about this one claim. First I had to go to court to fight a sist then we had a hearing when BOS did not turn up so i won by default when the extract for payment was sent. BOS asked for a recall saying their lawyers got the date for the hearing mixed up. So it was back to court for the recall that was when BOS tried to do a nother sist which they lost so now it is 11th july for the final hearing ( I hope)

[carter56]

whats new this week i heard its another decision in the courts ?

linda

[yourbank]

Historic terms and conditions are being discussed this week and the OFT has a new QC in charge with a very impressive CV

http://www.4stonebuildings.com/pdf/jonathan_crow.pdf

[carter56]

any news anyone ?

[texel]

I find it is very difficult getting news about what is happening in court about the OFT case. When I was in court on the 11th july. The lawyer working for BOS came out with a lot of jargon about what had happened re ths case. things I knew nothing about so of course could not say anything:(. The only thing that worked in my favour was for the third time BOS was unable to sist the action:D But the judge continued the action for 10 weeks. So it is back to the court for the fifth time on the 19th. Sept. To think if I eventually all I can except to get for costs is a max of £76:mad:Of course it has cost me alot more than that.

[african_igbo]

Well I have left this simmer (oft case/judgment) for quiet a long time, but I would like to know what are the current developments, I guess there is another court Date!.. pending then another please enlighten me.. thanks.

[texel]

Good idea I would like to know too

[yourbank]

As far as I aware, I think the courts break for the summer at the end of the week until september(please correct me if I am wrong).

So it look like September then possibly on historics. This is a changing scerario.

[african_igbo]

Anyway thanks for the update (youbank) and I did not know that Banks followed the Schooling Education system of summer holidays, thought they where a financial extortion business excuse my sinisterism, hehe never mind bailiffs at the door got to let them in.

[yourbank]

Banks aren't but the courts have specific sessions..which for the life of me I cannot remember.

[african_igbo]

Oooops thanks "yourbank" not paying attention pardon the pun!... well just hope that we get resolution sooner rather than later when I was pursuing my recharges I was on the ball, had a court date and all, (guna take a while to recall all the what to do's) had a few weeks until the OFT Case it bad timing for me as the OFT clarification on the charges, penalties what ever they are calling them is a drag and as I was an optimist and very pessimistic about this test case! drag drag and more drag.....

[SPROUTY]

Here you Go!

 

 

 

 

Wednesday 08 October 2008

COURT 73

Before MR JUSTICE ANDREW SMITH

Not before 16:30

For Judgment

2007-1186 Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC

 

Judgment will be available on the Court Service website shortly after 4.30.

Edited October 7, 2008 by SPROUTY

[yourbank]

Here you Go!

 

 

 

 

Wednesday 08 October 2008

COURT 73

Before MR JUSTICE ANDREW SMITH

Not before 16:30

For Judgment

2007-1186 Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC

 

Judgment will be available on the Court Service website shortly after 4.30.

 

The historical judgement is TOMORROW, WOOOOOHOOOO!!!

[Bookworm]

*Bookie waves smallest flag available* :-|

 

Oh, come on... Does anyone think the historic charges are going to be found to be penalties when the new ones have been found not to be? (They're not for a service either, mind you! Now there's a trick! )