Heat Pump Technology to replace central heating boilers

[Fossell]

Hi there,

 

I would like to introduce the topic of heat pump technology as a viable replacement of the standard gas powered boilers we all use.

 

For those who dont know, heat pumps are basically air conditoning units like those that cool a building space, but in reverse.

They use the temperature difference of the air outdoors and the refrigerent contained in the heat pump unit to create heat that is useable throughout the home for heating and heating water.

 

Its not a new technology by any means but with soaring energy prices and greater efficiency in the design of heat pumps, they are now poised to enter the domestic market and replace even the most efficient condensing boilers.

 

The main selling point is a ratio used that states a normal heating system will use 1kw of energy to produce less than 1kw of heat output. Where as heat pumps will use 1kw of energy and produce 3kw of heat energy. This ratio is being improved upon all the time.

Hence the potential savings for the consumer are great while also lowering ones carbon emission. (if thats something your bothered about?!)

 

I have been researching alternative heating sytems for some time and the main exisiting technologies that will be fighting to replace your boiler are heat pumps and MicroCHP.

 

Heat Pumps

Heat pumps come in to main flavours. Ground source and air source.

You may have heard of ground source heat pumps. They basically take the heat from the ground in the same way but the downside is the cost and space requirements for laying masses of pipe underground to collect this heat.

Hence 'air source' heat pumps seem the most viable option for most domestic situations.

Where previosly ground source pumps have always been considered more efficient than air source pumps, improvements in efficiency are leading to air source pumps matching and beating the efficiency of ground source pumps. Plus they offer great ease of installation compared to ground source.

 

MicroCHP

This is a stirling engine technology that still uses gas but at the same time as heating the home/water, will create electricity. Like a mini power station in your home. This electric can be used in the home or sold back to the national grid.

Several large boiler manufactures are readying units that will be the same size as your current combi boiler and will be fairly easy to fit.

The downside of this technology seems to be that it still uses gas, only produces electric when the heating is on and the electric produced seems to be currently limited to about 1kw which limits the amount you can 'sell' back to the energy provider.

Indeed your energy provide may well cap the amount you can sell back anyway plus there buy-back rate is open to fluctuation thus limiting any financial savings you could make.

Hence I feel that heat pump technology stands to be the best new competitor in the carbon emission cutting, money saving market of domestic heating.

 

Id be interested to hear comments and views from everyone on the topics.

[robin9342]

I read about heat pumps many years ago and often wondered why they are not far more widespread. I suppose they are not widely known about because its not in the energy supplier companies interests for us to use considerably less energy than we do now: Imagine the effect on their profits if every home had one installed!

 

Further reading for anyone interested:

Heat Pump Network Home Page

[kennythecelt]

Good post Fossell and Robin.

 

I am intending to put an air source heat pump into the new house I am building, combined with a couple of solar panels. I sold my last home to pay off all debts and currently live in private rented. The house will be of SIP panels- Structrural Insulation Panels- increasingly stringent thermal values will be set for all new homes and this will be difficult through traditional building methods- hence the move to European and American technologies, given limited oil reserves globally and the demand on whatever there will be in the future. The two combined methods should see annual heating and water bills as low as £200, whereas I currently pay about £2000 with oil and coal.

 

For information.

 

All Power Utility companies will operate a CERT (Carbon Emmission Reduction Target) scheme from 1/4/2008. Effectively this a government tax on their profits which the utilities must spend on reducing carbon emmissions, targeting a high percentage of fuel poor qualifying households. Apart from loft and cavity insulation, for the first time, renewable technolgies will qualify, inc solar panels, ground and air source hear pumps. This could see a big reduction in the price. A lot of this work will be in partnership with local authorities and the Warm Front scheme.

[Fossell]

Good plan combining panels with the air heat pump. After all the air pump still needs electric to run so the more of that electric coming for free from the panels the better.

 

Make sure to check out the latest air heat pump technologies available as some that are being marketed are nothing more than swimming pool style heaters that works on the same basis, but I believe, are noisy and less efficient.

 

Can provide some links if you like.

[kennythecelt]

Thanks Fossell, will do.

 

I would be really keen to follow up any links you might have. It would also be useful for others that might consider it at some point.

 

Many thanks!!

[Bigmac versus]

One thing that goes against them, COST. I have spoke to customers regarding solar and ground source heat pumps but when put in comparison to a HE condensing combi the decisions are all the same in the end.

 

Im sure in around 10 years these will be more affordable and will be the norm as condensing boilers are now.

[kennythecelt]

One thing that goes against them, COST. I have spoke to customers regarding solar and ground source heat pumps but when put in comparison to a HE condensing combi the decisions are all the same in the end.

 

Im sure in around 10 years these will be more affordable and will be the norm as condensing boilers are now.

 

Yes, agreed Bigmac. The cost should hopefully come down as demand increases in the future.

[Polaris]

The main selling point is a ratio used that states a normal heating system will use 1kw of energy to produce less than 1kw of heat output. Where as heat pumps will use 1kw of energy and produce 3kw of heat energy.

 

This is only a valid point if you use electric heating now. If you are comparing a heat pump to gas heating, gas is 1/3rd (or less) than the cost of electricity, so there is no saving in running cost, just the huge cost of installation.

[zilch]

If using an air source heat pump what happens in situations like today, ie freezing temperatures, and no heat in the atmosphere. You would need a back up heat source.?

[Conniff]

If anyone is interested there are some vids on youtube. This seems to be the most informative even though it is US.

 

YouTube - Envision Series by WaterFurnace

 

This is Geothermal and not air. I enquired about geothermal a while ago and was very impressed by the costs.

[robin9342]

If using an air source heat pump what happens in situations like today, ie freezing temperatures, and no heat in the atmosphere. You would need a back up heat source.?

 

Ah, but even in low temperatures, there is still heat in the air/ground. I don't know how well current heat pumps deal with low ambient temperatures, but bear in mind that all objects above absolute zero (-273.15 celsius) contain some heat energy, albeit very difficult to extract.

[robin9342]

If anyone is interested there are some vids on youtube. This seems to be the most informative even though it is US.

 

YouTube - Envision Series by WaterFurnace

 

This is Geothermal and not air. I enquired about geothermal a while ago and was very impressed by the costs.

 

This is probably nit-picking, but geothermal refers to any method of extracting heat from the ground including direct heating of water and electricity generation. In the context of heat pumps, it is "ground source"

[kennythecelt]

Here is a link to the Energy Savings Trust, the page for information on renewable technologies. This gives useful background info.

 

Renewable energy types - solar power, wind turbines, solar heating - Energy Saving Trust

 

Regards, Kenny

[kennythecelt]

And a link to the Carbon Trust

 

Helping business and the public sector cut carbon emissions | Carbon Trust

 

Both sites give lots of information on renewables and rated domestic appliances. Likewise, there is information on grants, which may be useful for someone.

 

Regards, Kenny

[Fossell]

If using an air source heat pump what happens in situations like today, ie freezing temperatures, and no heat in the atmosphere. You would need a back up heat source.?

 

Apparently - new technologies with heat pumps are allowing them to operate at much lower temperatures. There just has to be a difference between the air/ground temp and temp of the refrigerent in the pump for it to extract the heat.

 

Dont know the difference temps or minimum effective temps.

I know that older air models are known to struggle in the colder the air gets but this may be less true of newer purpose built models.

 

Thats where ground pumps win over as the ground temp is a constant 11-12 celsius.But who wants to dig up there whole garden or drill 50m bore holes??!!

[Conniff]

You have to think carefully before installing an air source heat pump.

 

They are not really pumps, but compressors just like in your fridge but bigger. The average cost of a 12kw pump is in the region of £6000, so you need to take that into consideration as well as any saving in electricity or gas.

 

If you pay say £50 per month for heating now, and the pump can cut that down by half £25 per month, then you need to add the cost of the pump + (6000/25 = 240) so it will in fact still cost you £50 per month for 20 years and then you will start to make an actual saving.

 

The only way to make any real saving is to have the pump supplied and fitted for free.

[Fossell]

You have to think carefully before installing an air source heat pump.

 

They are not really pumps, but compressors just like in your fridge but bigger. The average cost of a 12kw pump is in the region of £6000, so you need to take that into consideration as well as any saving in electricity or gas.

 

If you pay say £50 per month for heating now, and the pump can cut that down by half £25 per month, then you need to add the cost of the pump + (6000/25 = 240) so it will in fact still cost you £50 per month for 20 years and then you will start to make an actual saving.

 

The only way to make any real saving is to have the pump supplied and fitted for free.

 

Indeed the trouble with most eco/free/efficient energy sources for the home is most of them take 10-30 years to pay for themselves and so at the moment are commercially unviable on a domestic level.

 

Only government legislation and the huge power and social conditioning of western society to think green will make the costs come down.

After all, the governments of the west have no choice but to faze out oil/coal based energy over the next 30 years but its a slow process that involves the 'green' social conditioning as we the consumers are the only ones with the huge purchasing power to make it happen.

[Conniff]

The only problem I see with this is "we the consumers" in this country are apathetic and will not band together to achieve things even if it is for our own benefit.

[Fossell]

The only problem I see with this is "we the consumers" in this country are apathetic and will not band together to achieve things even if it is for our own benefit.

(Apologies - the below is an answer but ive kind of stretched myself and encompassed my 'whole' view on the industry here)

 

Your absolutely right. We buy whats available on mass as its the cheapest and the advertising says condensing boilers are the best (for example).

 

Thats why we are slowly being conditioned by what I consider to be the biggest marketing campaign the world has ever known. The climate change 'green' campaign. Save the world. Its up to the public. Eco Bollocks.

Its a massive billion pound industry and over the next few years the energy companies and boiler manufacturers will begin to get their profits from new technologies and less from energy oil/gas.

 

It makes sense really. The energy companies are very powerful and theyre not about to let their profits be eaten up by other emerging technology companies.

They will remain in control at all costs. Who are the biggest solar panel manufaturers in Europe? BP! Not some odd solar company you havent heard of.

Its the same with new heating technologies for the home.

If we use less energy they make less profit so they (the energy companies) are obviously going to seek to control this.

They can do this by getting in bed with the boiler manufacturers or by being the salesman of the new boilers.

 

The potential market is massive. Nearly 1 million people per year need to have their boilers replaced. Convince them that the new technology is better (condensing boilers at present) and you have your replacement profit stream for any losses incurred by people using less energy at home.

 

I have even noticed that the MicroCHP boilers that are coming soon and that allow electric to be sold back to the grid are actually limited to 1kw.

Strangely most of them are limited to this level which stealthily caps the amount you can profit/save from selling back to the energy company.

 

Coincidence? I doubt it!! As if they would allow their profits to be eaten up by the very manufacturers that make the heaters that deliver their product. No no no. (Though there is one company that doesnt have this 1kw cap and has achieved a peak 3.6kw output of generated electric for sale back to grid. Though I think they'll find they cant sell back that much when it gets round to it!)

 

The recent rise in energy prices could also be considered artificial. They blame wholesale gas/oil prices but I think its more likely that they're doing this to offset future energy price drops, facilitate and fund the new products and also to help further condition us towards the new energy saving methods of home power over the coming years.

 

In my eyes its all kind of obvious but not really to the masses that are blinded by the marketing campaign that is conditioning and softening the delivery of all this.

Im not saying the powers that be are bad for approaching things like this and it may actually be the only way to jump start the west into these new technologies to get us of oil asap. (even though quick means over 20 years!)

Id siimply prefer them all to be more honest and open about it. Tell us whats going on truthfully and we may respond quicker.

Sure the energy companies want to retain power and profits. Thats only natural. We wont necessarily persecute them for that, will we?

 

And also im sure the world will benefit from greener cleaner energy but the problems of global warming etc are being amplified and exagerated to facilitate the energy switch while keeping the powers that be profits intact.

 

You wont find people in India, China and Africa the target of this green eco babble marketing! If we cant afford green technology they dont have an ice cube in hells chance. They'll be sticking to good old oil/coal/gas and wood for their fire and power!

 

Anyway. All of this is the reason why we dont get our efficient energy producing technologies at a cost effective price.

There is no such thing as free energy because the people up top are watching to make sure they get their slice of the action!

 

What the hell are we supposed to do about it?

[Fossell]

Thanks Fossell, will do.

 

I would be really keen to follow up any links you might have. It would also be useful for others that might consider it at some point.

 

Many thanks!!

 

Hi Kenny,

 

Sorry some links!!!:

 

r744 is a good news site for heat pump tech:

CO2 Heat Pumps - from Japan to the world - R744.com News

 

Dux Hot Water unveils all-climate heat pump with Airoheat subzero

 

Housebuilder's Update: Anyone for an air source heat pump?

 

A good energy blog:

House 2.0: Just how good are heat pumps?

 

Ecodan Mitsubishi Electric Heat-pump Boiler

[poker_mad]

I have been involved with installing ground source heat pumps for the past 12 months. They do cost a lot to install but they do pay back in 5 - 10 years depending on the property.

[stanleyzhao]

What you need is air-water heat pumps (google "wave heat pump", pls, for the forum don't allow me to add links). Go to this page "projects" on the site "waveheatpump.com", there are various application examples on it. the heat pump systems are installed in many buildings, including hotels, schools, restaurents, companies, etc.

 

By modular installation you can make water heating systems with any capacities.