Arrow court claim - help with defence please **WON** they gave up and ran away

[robcag]

Hi theoldie

 

I agree with what Andy says.

 

Regarding defences, there are quite a few scattered around the site, in fact I saw an excellent one by pt2537 just today which may fit most of the aspects of your case.

 

Here is the link to said defence, so if you haven't already seen it, have a read through and see how it might be adapted to your scenario.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/72876-mercers-barclaycard-4.html#post1382210

 

I know it probably seems very long and I'm not suggesting that it will fit the bill exactly, but something like that could be adapted to suit. Let us know what you think and I'm sure someone will be able to help/advise further.

 

Rob

[theoldie]

Thank you andyorch and robcag, some studying to do.

Brain work for me.

[robcag]

Just a few tips for when you do finally get round to submitting your defence;

1. If the written defence exceeds a certain number of words (can't remember how many) then it will be too large for the MCOL site and will have to be submitted by letter to arrive no later than 4:00pm on 22 Feb, so therefore you would need to use Royal Mail Special Delivery, posting no later than 21 Feb.

 

2. If submitting online, then try and make sure you do this well before 4:00pm as apparently the site gets very busy as the 4:00pm deadline approaches.

 

3. If submitting online then copy & paste the text from a Word document rather than try and type it in directly as you will probably get "timed-out" before finishing!

 

4. Also if submitting online, watch out for the inclusion of certain non-permitted characters in your typed defence as these will prevent you submitting (something which I found out for myself even though the characters which were preventing me submitting were not included in the list given!).

If you manage to come up with a defence it would probably be advisable to post it up here for others to give it the once over before you submit it.

 

Good luck!

 

Rob

[B3rty]

Mortimer Clarke is the same address as Marlin Financial Services and Marlin Legal Service....you can view their office here

 

Maps of the world, country map search - powered by Multimap

 

Mortimer Clarke have 1 solicitor and offer this legal service to various debt collection agencies as an automated service

 

see this link for marlin legal services who are at the same address and are the same company

 

Marlin Legal

 

This company are part of a group at the Steyning address

Marlin Financial services

Marlin legal Services

Mortimer Clark

 

They also have some with a london address

Marlin Capital Europe

Black Tip Capital Holdings

 

Their address is

145-157 St. John Street

2nd Floor

London

EC1V 4PY

UK

 

This is a virtual office offered by this company

http://www.londonpresence.com/main_h.htm

 

If you put their all their web address's into a domain search tool all of them are registered at the Steyning address

 

Whois lookup and Domain name search

 

I have 3 accounts currently with Marlin sold to them by HSBC and received a letter threatening court action and increasing a £4200k debt by £800.....I plan to pay them a visit soon just to see what they actually have in this shed/barn

 

What worries me is this is just a front for foreign investors to buy UK debt and get it collected by these companies who have little concern for our welfare.......we need to watch out for this and I personally plan to make an issue of it when I have gathered enough information on the background of the directors

[Edz11]

I should get your fax to Arrow Global ready for sending on Tuesday. Along these lines?

 

I need the following information/documents in order to complete my defence against the claim you have comenced in Northampton County Court;

1) I need a true copy of the executed Credit agreement, containing the prescribed terms, that is referred to in your claim.

2) You are asked to supply the me with a copy of the default notice which must have been issued prior to the commencement of this claim.

3) You are requested to supply me with a signed true copy of the Notice/Deed of assignment of the debt if you are not th original creditor.

4) You are asked to supply me with a statement of account, representing a breakdown of the amount shown in the claim. The statement of account should detail;

a) The principal,

b) Any and all payments made on the account,

c) Any charges, fees and interest charged to the account and (with the exception of charges of interest) a list and details of the actual costs associated with each charge for the last 6 years in order for them to prove that the debt amounts to the amount claimed and that the charge or fee is contractually based.

In order that this information is received in time to prepare my defence you are requested to forward it by special delivery business post so it reaches me no later than Friday 22 February 2008.

[robcag]

 

.....

In order that this information is received in time to prepare my defence you are requested to forward it by special delivery business post so it reaches me no later than Friday 22 February 2008.

 

Hi Edz

 

theoldie needs to get his defence to the court by Fri 22 Feb 2008, possibly using Royal Mail SD, so surely this would be giving them too much time?

 

Rob

[AndyOrch]

Hi Oldie

 

Edz surley we have all ready requested the above information in our CPR18 request and with non-complience so why are you suggesting to hound Arrow and such by fax??? The clock is ticking away and so far better to proceed with what is more benefitial to the required circumstances.

 

Now work out what date you expected a response form your CPR 18 Request and post this to the Court and to the Claiments Sols Next day Gtd Del

 

Its time to crank up the pressure

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the Attention of the Case Manager

in the matter of

 

 

 

 

V The Oldie

 

 

 

 

Claim Number

 

In Northampton Court

 

 

 

 

 

Northampton County Court

4th Floor St Katharines House

21-27 St Katherines Street

Northampton

 

 

 

Your Address

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

RE: FAILURE BY CLAIMANT TO PROVIDE INFORMATION

 

I would like to inform the court of some difficulties that I am experiencing

with this claim, which may prevent me filing a fully particularised defence

and counter claim to this action, and may consequently frustrate proceedings.

 

On insert date, I sent the claimant a formal request under the consumer credit agreement, for account. I requested a copy of the credit agreement, a statement of account, and copies of the relevant terms and conditions. I have still not received this information.

 

On insert date, I also sent a request under the Civil Procedure Rules, for the claimant to send me information in respect of each account in the claim, that I consider is vital in order to produce a defence and counter claim.

 

I enclose a copy of this letter and Reply, and ask that the court consider the matter and take any action it deems appropriate.

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

 

Enc:-letter requesting disclosure.CPR 18

 

 

 

Get the above off ASAP and start on your holding defence if you are struggling to do this just shout as i am around this week to check what you are submitting

 

 

I Trust the above is of help

 

 

Regards

Andy:cool:

[theoldie]

Will send letter to court as andyorch (thank you andy) suggested tomorrow,

 

Copy of letter sent to Arrow :-

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/ian29smith/Letterxed.jpg

Please confirm this is a 'CPR 18' ?

 

Am unable to find a fax no for :-

Arrow Global LLC

2 The Courtyard

Beeding Court

Shoreham Road

Steyning

West Sussex

BN44 3BJ

[Edz11]

Strictly it isn't a valid CPR 18 request. To be so it has to comply with the CPR's and part of them is that the letter must be headed "Request for information under CPR 18".

 

There are two approaches to defending bare claims. Hit them hard and heavy at every stage. Or subtle and softly softly.

 

The hard approach is defensive but from what I've seen on here it doesn't seem to avoid the problems - such as directions hearings etc. I'm guessing but when the Judge sees the ton of paperwork with long screeds fresh from Northampton he thinks "oh sh!t - I haven't got time lets have a hearing". The subtle approach (it worked for me) was bare minimum of correspondence and so when the Judge looked at it for the first time there was little to look at other than a Claimant that was clearly not prosecuting the claim. The Judge could weigh it up in two minutes and I got a unless order with a strike out. It was struck out.

 

There are risks with every approach. what mood the Judge is in, etc etc. But if the case is pushed onto the pile that is marked "dithering claimant" and it's simple then there's more chance of a strike out if it's simple - so to speak...

 

And I'd ring for the fax number!

[AndyOrch]

Hi Oldie

 

I personaly would continue on the assumption that what we have sent is good enough to be considered CPR 18 however for the benefit of doubt why not just fax the attached to Arrow & Co as an amended request giving them till friday to comply using the original dates?

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next xxx days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

Only a suggestion but I have previously requested without the heading and sols have complied

 

 

Regards

Andy

[theoldie]

Hi Oldie

 

I personaly would continue on the assumption that what we have sent is good enough to be considered CPR 18 however for the bennefit of doubt why not just fax the attached to Arrow & Co as an amended request giving them till friday to comply using the original dates?

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next xxx days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

Only a suggestion but I have previously requested without the heading and sols have complied

 

 

Regards

Andy

 

 

Wording says "within fourteen days of the receipt

of this letter", which gives a date way beyond this Friday deadline,

Maybe should be a different wording ?

Or send as above and send defense to arrive in due time anyway :-

"as your defence you say that information was requested from the claimant to enable you to defend the claim but that they haven't replied. You say that you wish to make a full defence if they finally get around to sending you the information over the next week or two."

Or ?

[theoldie]

Does anyone have fax no for Arrow ?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Oldie

 

Edit to mirror your original request we are only covering what Edz as implied could be a problem,Keep the dates from your original request but add as a follow up, the deadline is friday.

Oldie I can only reiterate what i said in my earlier post you will not recieve a reply anyhow so why are u obsessed with their complience? Very rare it happens and if at all they dont want you to defend it, it creates work for the claiment. You will be submitting an holding defence by Friday i can assure of that 100%

 

 

Regards

Andy

[robcag]

Hi Oldie

 

Edit to mirror your original request we are only covering what Edz as implied could be a problem,Keep the dates from your original request but add as a follow up, the deadline is friday.

Oldie I can only reiterate what i said in my earlier post you will not recieve a reply anyhow so why are u obsessed with their complience? Very rare it happens and if at all they dont want you to defend it, it creates work for the claiment. You will be submitting an holding defence by Friday i can assure of that 100%

 

 

Regards

Andy

Hi Andy (and theoldie)

 

I agree with what you are trying to get over to theoldie regarding no point trying to get the enemy to comply and play by the rules, they simply do not seem to do this. However, as they have had more than enough time to play ball, I do not think they should be given until Friday to comply (I think personally I wouldn't bother trying as they have had their chances and should have included documents with their claim form).

 

I also agree to some extent with what Edz says a few posts further up the thread (about the two different ways of approaching the defence).

 

Obviously the later we leave it until theoldie submits his defence, the more time we have to agree on what is submitted, but if it is left until Friday and submitted via the MCOL site, then the defence will have to be under the maximum permitted number of words.

 

In either case it seems that it will have to be a "holding" defence, reserving the right to amend at a later date if/when the claimants produce any of the requested documents.

 

And don't worry theoldie, like Andy says, you will have a defence to submit before the deadline which will upset Arrows applecart!

 

Everyone here is right behind you, just make sure you check-in here frequently, especially later in the week as your deadline approaches

 

Rob

[AndyOrch]

"Obviously the later we leave it until theoldie submits his defence, the more time we have to agree on what is submitted, but if it is left until Friday and submitted via the MCOL site, then the defence will have to be under the maximum permitted number of words."

 

Hi Robcag & Oldie

The max characters for MCOL submission is 8000 characters I believe that a holding defence which will refute the claiments POC is attainable and should not need to exceed this.Why should it we can be as brief and spurious as their claim which dosent even comply with the CPR 16 IMHO

 

Regards

Andy

[B3rty]

You are being taken to court by Mortimer Clarke who are technically a form of Solicitors, they have 1 who is also a directror of Marlin, This is an automated process to as of yet noone with a legal brain will have veiwed your case

 

The contact information for Mortimer clarke is:

Tel: 0845 370 928

Fax: 01903 817903

info@marlinlegalservices.co.uk

Marlin Legal

 

Have a look at their website and see the services they offer DCAs, they talk about an automated litigation service, thats a euphemism for anyone can press the button and print our letters or complete the claims process.

 

IMHO, you need to forget about these jokers for now as they are only collecting the debt for Arrow and get concentrate on Northampton asking the judge to strike out this will then transfer to your local court which will enable you time to look at your defence in more detail.

 

You should PM pt2537 as he is great with this sort of thing

 

Berty

[AndyOrch]

Berty

 

Once a summons as been issued you cant request a strike out on the grounds that the claiment as failed to disclose to CPR18 request.You acknowledge the service and either admit or defend on the bases of your case.If insufficient information is availabe from the claiments P.O.C this is when you request information pertaining to the claim via your CPR.The norm is then to submit your holding defence with view to amend at such time information is available or submit your final defence if the info is available.Thats the way it works unfortunatly

 

 

Regards

Andy

[B3rty]

Andy...I understand that however you can quote CPR 3.4 , lack of CCA e.t.c, and the figures on the POC not adding up just as a first attempt, however I think its the acknowledgement thats due Friday not the defence?

 

I am dealing with Mortimer Clarke and basically its an automated legal process run from a barn in the middle of nowhere along with Marlin FS and Marlin Legal services, they add extortionate interest onto debts but are only a collection agency that offer these services

 

The POCs make interesting reading as they haven't produced an agreement yet are charging interest as per the terms of the agreement....lol.

 

This needs to get to local court stage then CCA s.78 along with CPR 16 7.3 could prove a good basis for a legal argument, but they could also be shooting them selves in the foot by adding this interest to the debt with out providing an agreement

[AndyOrch]

Hi berty

 

I think if you recheck the thread its the defence by friday, Oldie as all ready submitted his AOS.With reference to the other points you make well if they cant produce the agreement then non of this matters anyway which we will outline in the holding defence and basically its game over.When you submit your defence its purpose is to refute their POC cast doubt and frighten them away.if theres no agreement then further interest becomes irrelevent.

BTW once defence as been submitted it will be tranfered to Oldies local county court automaticaly

 

I trust the above makes sence and oulines my advice

 

Regards

Andy

[B3rty]

Andy...thats great...it likes like oldie's got a good case and knowing M-Clarke they wont want to defend this in the local court.....they have 1 solicitor who is Tariq Khan and he's based abroad, basically their system works on autopilot just bulk claims to Northanpton and getting judgements for the OC debt plus their extortionate charges......

[theoldie]

Rang the phone number on the claim form, asked for a fax number and was given :

01903 817909

 

Did some copying, pasting, editing, and faxed this:-

 

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/ian29smith/mortimercprfaxedXed.jpg

 

Ref :-

 

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/ian29smith/Faxreciept.jpg

[robcag]

Hi oldie

 

Well you've satisfied that issue then!

 

I've PM'd you with a suggestion.

 

Rob

[pt2537]

Hi theoldie,

 

received you message, i will have to have a read of the thread to see whats been happening before i can comment.

 

i probably wont get a chance to read through this evening unless your defence is exceptionally urgent and needs to be in by the end of tomorrow or something

 

try not to worry too much though , im sure we can sort this out

 

 

regards

paul

[theoldie]

Hi, pt2537 Paul,

 

Thank you for your concern , a defense is due in at Northampton County Court Friday 22ndFeb.

[pt2537]

Hi Oldie,

 

Can i just double check, did you send these characters a Consumer Credit Agreement Request at any point ?

 

i know you sent the CPR request for disclosure and they have not complied with it, i have not had much chance to look at the links you have posted as my schedule is hectic today.

 

also have you been sent a Default Notice? if you have, is there a link to it on here?

 

regards

 

paul