Sytra v HSBC (Business Acc) ***WON***

[sytra]

Hi, i thought i would post here and see if i can get any further help and advice on a claim i have with HSBC and their charges.

 

Got into a few difficulties back in July when business went belly up, ended up with charges being added on daily, asked HSBC in Aug for help but they said that there was nothing they could do but to go back in 3 months and ask again, meanwhile the charges are still piling up.

 

Anyway

 

Sent a prelim letter on 23 Oct for a refund on charges totalling £640 got a reply this morning (30th Oct) offering £145 as F & F

 

Obviously i dont want to accept this as it means that then i will still owe approx £800 and a big chunk of that is charges. Would it be unreasonable of me to write to them saying thanks blah blah but actually i wanted the full amount and see what they come back with if anything?

 

In the letter they sent it sounds as though they actually doubt their own charges as they say " I am however mindful of the management time and irrecoverable costs that may be incurred should this matter become protracted and for these commercial reasons alone and without any admission of liability whatsoever, i am prepared to make a F & F of £145"

 

they also say "if your request proceeds to court, we therefore believe that we would successfully resist any legal challenge brought against us"

 

It is prob just a standard letter but could just do with some more advice or opinions.

 

thanks for your help

 

Sytra

[Castlebest]

Hiya Sytra, yep thats just a standard letter. Just carry on and file a county court claim against them

 

pete

[jowalshy]

Hi thanks for the reply

 

Do i just go straight for the court claim or should i show willing and give them a chance to "up" their offer?

 

i today recieved a letter from DCA Metropolitan who i think i read somewhere are the inhouse DCA for HSBC, in it they graciously offered to hold the account on abeyance for 2 weeks so i can prove that i have a dispute and forward it to themselves, if not they will pursue the debt in full with immediate effect as they are within their rights.

 

sytra

 

As the CAG clock has gone a bit haywire, ghost and gobblins took control I think (people seem to be posting in the future ) I thought that I would put your question aswell as my answer in the same post.

 

You can send HSBC a letter accepting their offer as part payment towards your total claim. IMHO though I did this and never heard from them again, so I would go for the court claim. You could state in your partial acceptance letter that if you do not receive a reply by xx.xx.xx you will pursue a claim through the courts. As for proving that the account is in dispute to the DCA, I think if you send to them copies of your letters that you sent to HSBC (prelim, LBA + their replies), I would have thought that that should be ok.

[sytra]

Hi just wondered if someone could cast their eye over this letter i intend to send to HSBC tomorrow.

 

in it i say that i will pay them £200 that is what we do actually owe on the account, the rest is charges, is this reasonable? i know they probably wont go for it but its worth a shot i thought.

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Ms Stokes,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 29th October 2007 offering a full & final offer of £145.00, however I will not be accepting that offer.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my business account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law and contrary to Statute.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated the account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £640 in charges from my account.

 

I require repayment of this money. If you do not return it to me in full within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount, any extra charges added since my claim, plus interest, plus my costs, without further notice.

However I am prepared to offer you a Full and Final offer myself of £200, in return, I would like the account closed and any remaining balance cleared (including charges / Interest), if you would like to accept this offer then I will drop any action against yourselves on receipt of a statement showing the balance as zero and a letter of confirmation that the account is closed.

You have 7 days from the date of this letter to let me know of your intentions if I don’t here from you by then, I will have no other alternative but to continue with my claim.

Please accept this letter as formal notice of a dispute with this account, and I ask you to stop processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

Yours faithfully,

 

Sytra

[freakyleaky]

Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

.

[freakyleaky]

Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

[freakyleaky]

Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

[jowalshy]

Looks good to me too sytra. Good luck.

[sytra]

Ok thanks for that freaky and jowalshy, will get it in post first thing.

 

Will keep you all posted

 

Sytra

[sytra]

Hi thanks for the reply

 

Do i just go straight for the court claim or should i show willing and give them a chance to "up" their offer?

 

i today recieved a letter from DCA Metropolitan who i think i read somewhere are the inhouse DCA for HSBC, in it they graciously offered to hold the account on abeyance for 2 weeks so i can prove that i have a dispute and forward it to themselves, if not they will pursue the debt in full with immediate effect as they are within their rights.

 

sytra

[freakyleaky]

Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

 

 

..

[jowalshy]

You have now said that three times now Freaky..lol Nope make that four times

[freakyleaky]

Hi Sytra, that looks like a great letter to me! As the oft case does not have a bearing on business claims and you have no other charges apart from those which make up the majority of your account balance, I think they would have to be crazy not to accept your offer!

[freakyleaky]

The site has gone crazy! It's driving me mad!

[freakyleaky]

Oh congrats on your new light Jo! Just seen it! Well done!

Sorry to the op for hijacking your thread!

[jowalshy]

Thanks Freaky. I didn't even notice it until you pointed it out. what do you reckon on my new avatar? Have you looked at our special thread in the bear garden yet? I think that we can have some fun there.

[sytra]

Just a thought, i was talking about this acc with my other half today and she said that she vaguely remembers me taking the wrong bank statement as ID she thinks i took hers instead of mine, this was before we were married so completely different name on it.

 

Would this have any bearing on the agreement? if so how would i found out what was used as ID?

 

if i send of for a CCA wont i just get the agreement and not copies of id used?

 

Would an appropiately worded Subject request work?

 

Then if it is a dodgy agreement at least i can have some bearing on the outcome of my case with HSBC and maybe persuade them to take my offer (or less if they p me off too much).

 

Any thoughts

 

Sytra

[Castlebest]

Don't think proof of ID at the time you opened the account would have much baring on the claim. you have an account which is governed by a set of terms and conditions you agreed with the bank when you opened the account.

 

The consumer credit act doesn't have any baring on a current account because a current account is not a loan (credit) as such, the fact that it often has an overdraft facility from the bank unfortunately doesn't affect this so a CCA request could be refused by HSBC however they should provide a copy of your signed terms and conditions with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information.

 

good luck with your claim and keep us posted

 

pete

[tomterm8]

Don't think proof of ID at the time you opened the account would have much baring on the claim. you have an account which is governed by a set of terms and conditions you agreed with the bank when you opened the account.

 

i agree.

 

The consumer credit act doesn't have any baring on a current account because a current account is not a loan (credit) as such, the fact that it often has an overdraft facility from the bank unfortunately doesn't affect this so a CCA request could be refused by HSBC

 

Um... the CCA Regulates almost all consumer overdrafts. And a CCA will have a limited effect on such an agreement. the Consumer Credit Act 1974 doesn't regulate this overdraft, not because it is an overdraft, but because it was taken out for business (trade) purposes and was presumably entered into before the CCA 2006 came into force.

 

however they should provide a copy of your signed terms and conditions with your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information.

 

What kind of business was it? if a partnership or sole trader, a S.A.R. should work, however LTD companies are not data subjects for ther purposes of the data protection act 1998.

good luck with your claim and keep us posted

 

pete

..

[sytra]

Well they replied to my last letter........... but they are not going for it so looks like i have to take them to court....

 

Dont think they really read the letter properly, apparently my words were that the charges were irrecoverable.. and i asked for an increase in their offer (not in so many words) dont remember writing that...

 

Well till next time

 

Sytra

[sytra]

can someone please tell me what the next step is, do i fill in a N1 is it? also does anyone have a copy of the POC i can copy?

 

i think i am going to be asking for a lot of help over the next few weeks, hopefully i can return the favours someday.

 

Thanks

 

Sytra

[jowalshy]

Hi Sytra. Have a look at this thread. It has a POC on it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/105213-guide-business-claims.html

[freakyleaky]

You beat me to it Jo! Well after all that searching I am not leaving without posting it!

 

A guide to Business Claims

 

Just shout if you get stuck Sytra!

[sytra]

Ahh thankyou very much JoWalshy, knew i had seen things on the forums but couldnt remember where....

 

thanks again

 

Sytra

[jowalshy]

Took me a while to find it as well Freaky.