Sacked without any disciplinary procedure

[chno9]

Hi

 

My brother was recently released from his job. He was called into the office for a review (end of probationary period), and was told that they would no longer be needing his services. He was not under any disciplinary action, he had no indication that his performance was not up to standard. In the 6 months he was there he never had any review, and was never given any help or advice as to improve his performance.

 

From what i can gather the person that he replaced had also left in similar circumstances. It seems that this company are employing people for six months to oversee small accounts, and then getting rid before they have to review pay.

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, what a disappointment for your brother, he must be very unhappy about this. I hope he doesn't let this damage his confidence when looking for another job.

 

Unfortunately you're right in that some employers will use the excuse of an unsatisfactory probationary period as a way of "releasing" staff.

What does it say in his contract of employment about his probationary period?

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[chno9]

Hi

 

He was shocked about it initially but after about 6 weeks started his new job yesterday.

 

I asked him a while ago if he had a copy of his contract, but he doesn't remember signing anything when he started so am unsure if he has anything in writing.

 

He had recently moved city and was desperate for a job so when he got the job, so i don't think he even questioned it.

 

I have tried to get him to go to the citizens advice bureau but he hasn't done this, and now he's working i doubt whether he will now. That is why i am trying to piece together what he needs to do.

[Ell-enn]

Unfortunately, due to the fact that he was employed for less than 12 months there is nothing he can do. If you need to clarify this you could call the ACAS advisory line 08457 47 47 47 or visit their website Acas - Home

 

I'm glad to hear your brother now has a new job - I hope he has a better employer this time.

 

Kind Regards

 

Ell-enn

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I disagree, there is something he can do despite being employed for less than 12 months.

 

There appears to be a lack of a written contract but did he receive any written terms of employment?

 

Also, he was employed on a trial period without ever having any regular reviews about his performance. It is then a bit rich for the employer to then fire him without any prior notification of poor performance, if indeed that is the reason.

 

His employment has ended which is a serious breach of contract or possible wrongful dismissal. There is no qualifying period for wrongful dismissal.

 

Get in touch with ACAS or an employment solicitor if he is covered for legal disputes under his home insurance policy.

[Chesterexpress]

Weird al, there is nothing he can do about it. As someone else has posted, he was employed for less than 12 months. He was also at the end of his probation period, therefore the employer can do whatever they wish in this case.

 

Best advice is to move on and forget about it.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Weird al, there is nothing he can do about it. As someone else has posted, he was employed for less than 12 months. He was also at the end of his probation period, therefore the employer can do whatever they wish in this case.

 

Best advice is to move on and forget about it.

 

There is no qualifying period for wrongful dismissal unlike unfair dismissal which requires 12 months service.

 

Anybody can bring a claim for wrongful dismissal even after one day. Wrongful dismissal is basically a breach of contract-are you suggesting breach of contract cannot occur before 12 months?:?

 

Getting fired is as serious a breach of contract as is possible, provided the employee has a case to argue of course. I'd say the op's brother does.

 

And a probationary period means jack in employment law-either somebody is employed from day one or they are not. Nobody can lose statutory rights of employment just because they are on trial.

 

Again, there is something he can do and I know because I've experienced it.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

He was also at the end of his probation period, therefore the employer can do whatever they wish in this case.

 

Not quite.

 

This is 2007 not 1987 where the tory's done away with employee rights. The EU and a Labour government turned this around.

 

And probation period means nothing.

 

Employers are now less likely to get away with 'do whatever they wish' these days.

[Chesterexpress]

WeirdAl, please stop giving misleading advice. As another poster has confirmed already, because they had been employed for less than 12 months they have no rights for unfair dismissal. As for your wrongful dismissal, there has to be grounds for this i.e. breach of contract. However in this case it appears quite clear that they were dismissed at the end of their probation period. Hence no grounds whatsoever.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

WeirdAl, please stop giving misleading advice. As another poster has confirmed already, because they had been employed for less than 12 months they have no rights for unfair dismissal. As for your wrongful dismissal, there has to be grounds for this i.e. breach of contract. However in this case it appears quite clear that they were dismissed at the end of their probation period. Hence no grounds whatsoever.

 

What are you babbling on about?

 

Where have I suggested the op has a case for unfair dismissal?

 

I have mentioned wrongful dismissal which is not unfair dismissal and as such requires no 12 month qualifying period.

 

The grounds for the wrongful dismissal in this case is 1 being released from his contract of employment by his employer at the end of the probationary period despite never being told his performance was not up to scratch whereby he could improve.

 

2 There were never any reviews of his performance.

 

3 He was never subject to disciplinary action.

 

An employee would not need to be on a trial period if the employment was not meant to be any longer than that trial period. Therefore it would need to have been a short term contract for the employer to have acted lawfully in this instance.

 

The op was quite obviously working a trial period for a permanant position.

 

The op has excellent grounds for wrongful dismissal especially if he is able to contact the previous employee he replaced who was also fired in the same way.

 

There are laws that prevent/remedy this kind of unlawful action.

 

I suggest ACAS/lawyer will inform the op the same once he gets advice and for you to get your head around it.

 

If you don't know what you are talking about then please don't comment.

 

As I said before, I know because I went through a similar situation and my claim was upheld!

[Chesterexpress]

You are barking up the wrong tree on this one. On what grounds are they going to claim for wrongful dismissal? Seems to me like you have a bee in your bonnet with employers. The guy had his employment terminated, life goes on he has found new employment.

[Chesterexpress]

Some examples of breach of contract in order to pursue a claim for wrongful dismissal;

1) False allegations of misconduct

2) Harassing the employee

3) Changing an employee's job or terms of employment.

4) Not paying wages/salary

5) Changing the employee's work location without notice (if it is a major change).

I can’t see where the OP has stated any of the above. Therefore please stop advising them to take further action, which would be futile under the circumstances the OP described.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

You are barking up the wrong tree on this one. On what grounds are they going to claim for wrongful dismissal? Seems to me like you have a bee in your bonnet with employers. The guy had his employment terminated, life goes on he has found new employment.

 

God, it's like explaining something to my 4 year old neice.

 

On what grounds? The manner of the termination.

 

As I have stated many times before I had a similar situation which was upheld.

 

My former employer terminated my employment after a 3 month trial period as he claimed I had failed performance during that period.

 

1 I had never had any appraisals during this time or had any indication that my performance was unsatisfactory prior to termination.

 

I claimed for wrongful dismissal, which was upheld, as the tribunal considered that had I had an opportunity to improve my performance, which I didn't and I contended my performance wasn't unacceptable in any case, then I was denied the right to continue to be employed due to the failure of the employer to allow me to improve.

 

My former employers were unable to prove unsatisfactory performance as they had not appraised and had no records of any form of concern whatsoever.

 

Thus-wrongful dismissal of termination of contract for no good reason.

 

Try and get your head around it or just go on another thread to troll.

[Chesterexpress]

Well you have lost the plot now and the argument as you are being abusive.

 

I would be extremely surprised if any tribunal would rule in your favour under the circumstances you have described. And if they did it would more than likely be reversed on appeal.

 

You do not need to give a reason or in fact need a reason for dismissing an employee in the first 12 months of employment.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Some examples of breach of contract in order to pursue a claim for wrongful dismissal;

 

1) False allegations of misconduct ie Failure to satisfactorily complete a trial period could be considered a form of misconduct in itself allowing the employer to terminate.

2) Harassing the employee

3) Changing an employee's job or terms of employment. ie Termination of contract is the ultimate sanction of changing it.

4) Not paying wages/salary

5) Changing the employee's work location without notice (if it is a major change).

 

I can’t see where the OP has stated any of the above. Therefore please stop advising them to take further action, which would be futile under the circumstances the OP described.

 

The op's brother's contract was terminated for failure to satisfactorily complete a trial period. Yet there is nothing to indicate this was a concern during the trial period.

 

Clearly a wrongful dismissal.

 

Let's hope the op gets some proper advice and posts up here to show you the garbage you have posted.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Well you have lost the plot now and the argument as you are being abusive.

 

I would be extremely surprised if any tribunal would rule in your favour under the circumstances you have described. And if they did it would more than likely be reversed on appeal.

 

You do not need to give a reason or in fact need a reason for dismissing an employee in the first 12 months of employment.[/quote]

 

Brilliant.

 

In that case an employer can dismiss for somebody being black, a woman, gay, disabled...

 

Unbelievable. I can't take no more:(

 

You're on a wind up surely?

[Chesterexpress]

You have totally lost the plot, is that why your name is weirdAl?

 

We are not talking about discrimination being the reason for terminating employment. Therefore please stop trying to fudge the argument. I suggest if you want to start a flame war that you do so elsewhere.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

You have totally lost the plot, is that why your name is weirdAl?

 

We are not talking about discrimination being the reason for terminating employment. Therefore please stop trying to fudge the argument. I suggest if you want to start a flame war that you do so elsewhere.

 

What is wrong with you? You are deliberately fanning the flames here.

 

You first accused me of giving misleading advice when in fact it is sound.

 

You have then continued to post absolute nonsense and you are completely confused.

 

Just because unfair dismissal requires a 12 month qualifying period, (although not in all cases), you seem to then think an employer is able to dismiss anybody, for any reason, within that time!!

 

An example of discrimination clearly shows your post and belief as ridiculous.

 

This thread's subject has nothing to do with unfair dismissal yet you continue to refer to it and to 12 months.

 

Somebody else will be along I'm sure who will also recognise your bizarre rantings as the most unbelievable I have ever read on this site.

 

Do as I do.

 

If I feel I can give advice then I do but I always suggest contacting those who know better.

 

Otherwise I shut up.

[GlasweJen]

Not got time to post much but wrongful dismissal and unfair dismissal are not the same, it even says so on the ET1 form notes somewhere

[Chesterexpress]

Otherwise I shut up.

 

WeirdAl in that case I suggest you take your own advice

[Chesterexpress]

Not got time to post much but wrongful dismissal and unfair dismissal are not the same, it even says so on the ET1 form notes somewhere

 

Jen, I am aware of that, however weirdAl is trying to make a case for the OP of wrongful dismissal, to which there quite clearly isn't one.

 

Ps. WeirdAl, we have not been talking discrimination, so stop trying to muddy the waters.

[The Banks B]

My brother was recently released from his job. He was called into the office for a review (end of probationary period), and was told that they would no longer be needing his services.

 

The OP says nothing about the reason for not being kept on.

 

You both seem to be arguing over something which hasnt been mentioned.

 

As far as the OP says, they just didnt extend his contract after the probationary period.

[Lula]

Length of Service

 

The current law states that an employee must have 1 year's continuous employment with the same employer to qualify for unfair dismissal protection. Continuous employment carries on during sick leave, holidays and Maternity Leave.

 

 

 

and this was from

 

Length of Service

 

now, the OP has been given the correct advice, there is nothing more her brother can do, so please can we stop being disrespectful. I consider the matter at an end.

[Chesterexpress]

As far as the OP says, they just didnt extend his contract after the probationary period.

 

That is exactly the point I originally made, employment terminated at the end of his 6 month trial/probation period. Therefore nothing can be done about it.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Length of Service

 

The current law states that an employee must have 1 year's continuous employment with the same employer to qualify for unfair dismissal protection. Continuous employment carries on during sick leave, holidays and Maternity Leave.

 

 

 

and this was from

 

Length of Service

 

now, the OP has been given the correct advice, there is nothing more her brother can do, so please can we stop being disrespectful. I consider the matter at an end.

 

My goodness, what is so difficult to comprehend? Unfair dismissal is not the issue here.

 

Wrongful dismissal is. They are not the same. And as such there is no 12 month qualifying period. Everybody is entitled to bring a claim of wrongful dismissal.

 

The post cleary suggests that a contract was terminated for no other reason than it happened at the end of a probationary period. The employer would need to prove the reason for it-if he is unable to then it is wrongful.

 

The op's brother can indeed do a lot more than just not do anything.