HFC/Restons **WON**CASE STRUCK OUT

[Bug]

I know pt - but isn't it great that they put it in writing!!

[tomterm8]

If you submit it via MCOL, then MCOL will send copies to you. I'm not sure about other methods (i.e. by post, etc) it would be best to phone the court and ensure you are sending the right number of copies.

 

I generally suggest sending via MCOL if you possibly can, with FAX as the second best route. Make sure you type rather than write your signature (yeah, it is valid in english law to do so)

[Bug]

Yes, it went in via MCOL, that way I got a date/time it was uploaded so I printed it out. I think it might be an idea if I sent a copy to Restons - they do have a habit of saying they haven't received things.

 

Cheers.

[tomterm8]

Yes, it went in via MCOL, that way I got a date/time it was uploaded so I printed it out. I think it might be an idea if I sent a copy to Restons - they do have a habit of saying they haven't received things.

 

Cheers.

 

Doesn't matter. don't waste your money posting it / faxing it to them.

 

the defence will be served by the court. If restons don't recieve it, it's their problem, not yours.

[Bug]

Okay - yes you're right of course. I'll let the court do it.

[Bug]

Well, as expected, they've issued the second claim. I intend to send a very similar letter to the first one requesting copy docs under s.8.5 of the CPR.

 

Particulars of Claim read as follows:

 

'The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant under a contract dated on or about 29/10/1996 in the sum of £3656.04 inclusive of interest to the date of this summons at 19.8% per annum from 12/10/07 to 13/11/07.

 

'Particulars a/c no:- xxxxx

 

Date Item Value

12/10/2007 Default balance 3107.54

13/11/2007 Collection charge 518.02

15/10/2007 Post Refrl cr -23.10

 

 

15/10/2007 23.10

 

13/11/2007 Interest 53.58

 

Total £3656.04

 

 

Together with interest pursuant to contract at the rate of 195.42 pence per day to the date of judgment or sooner payment.'

 

Oh heck ... here we go again!

[pt2537]

oh dear,

 

yep send them they CPR request, same as,

 

now then, what is this claim in relation to,credit card or loan etc?

 

 

regards

paul

[Bug]

Hi Paul,

 

The first I think is a loan it has a 12-digit number starting with 4 zeros. The second def has a credit card number on it though the first 4 digits are missing on the PoC. Both claims are considerably larger than they were to start with and are the amount outstanding much more than is shown on the PayPlan record of payment.

 

The (true) original was a single credit card (Open University) supplied (if that's the right word) by Beneficial, I recall this was around in 1992/3, or close to then. Somewhere in the mix, Beneficial became HFC, I ended up paying through PayPlan (1996) and the credit card became both a credit card AND a loan - I've either forgotten how/when it all happened or blotted it from my memory. All I know is that I've been paying both since 1996 through PayPlan, not missing any and they come along and sue me ... not nice and not friendly.

[shane5408]

Hi,

 

Just to clarify Beneficial Finance is a trading name of HFC Bank which in turn is a part of the HSBC Group.

 

_______________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

[Bug]

Fair comment - I knew they were part of HSBC though - will that make any difference with respect to the CCA ... assuming I ever get it?

[pt2537]

Ok well since they have slapped you with a claim, you deffo need to send them a CPR request for disclosure.

 

if they dont disclose the info you request it will make them look rather silly infront of the judge, or sillier than they already look i should have said

[Bug]

I've still heard nothing from the defence in claim number 1 - the court acknowledged receipt on 12th November. Of course I haven't heard a dicky-bird from either HFC or Restons.

 

Am I right in saying, what I really want from them is the CCA? It seems from other posts that they don't seem to be able to come up with them - I understand about the fact that the CCA needs to be an original, signed by both parties and have certain prescribed terms (including T and Cs) all within the same document. So naturally that's the cookie I'm after. I also intend to hit them with a counterclaim once I know how much I've paid out in penalty/late charges .... trouble is, I don't know that for sure until I get all the docs from them. I think I'd really rather it get thrown out as unenforceable through lack of/incomplete CCA than getting stayed/dismissed through their inability to come up with any docs at all.

[shane5408]

Hiya,

 

Are any of the debts related to overdrafts? If so have you sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to the creditor, overdrafts are slightly different, they are regulated by the CCA but the creditor is not required to hold an agreement subject to an OFT Determination order. Personally I feel they are required to of notified you of the general terms of the overdraft prior to initiating it though.

 

kind regards.

shane

 

_______________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

[shane5408]

Fair comment - I knew they were part of HSBC though - will that make any difference with respect to the CCA ... assuming I ever get it?

 

 

who did you send the CCA requests to?

 

It won't affect it regardless, I would think the agreement would be in Beneficial finances name as they are the trading company

[robcag]

I've still heard nothing from the defence in claim number 1 - the court acknowledged receipt on 12th November. Of course I haven't heard a dicky-bird from either HFC or Restons.

 

Am I right in saying, what I really want from them is the CCA? It seems from other posts that they don't seem to be able to come up with them - I understand about the fact that the CCA needs to be an original, signed by both parties and have certain prescribed terms (including T and Cs) all within the same document. So naturally that's the cookie I'm after. I also intend to hit them with a counterclaim once I know how much I've paid out in penalty/late charges .... trouble is, I don't know that for sure until I get all the docs from them. I think I'd really rather it get thrown out as unenforceable through lack of/incomplete CCA than getting stayed/dismissed through their inability to come up with any docs at all.

I also have a court case going on at the moment with 3rd rate double-act HFC/Restons, and I am getting similar results to you from them.

 

First I CCA'd and CPR'd HFC (belt and braces approach) on 3/10/07 which was the final date for my defence submission (basic "place-holder" defence around existence off CCA with proviso to submit further defence if CCA turned up). No response from HFC, not even acknowledgement.

 

Second I CPR'd Restons on 10/11/07, giving them 7 days to respond. Nothing so far.

 

I'll be starting my own thread in the next day or 2 as I would like advice on filling in my AQ which has to be returned by 27/11/07.

 

Hopefully, if I understand what I've read in this thread and others, HFC/Restons are digging a hole for themselves in not responding to my requests.

 

Good luck with your cases

 

Rob

[Bug]

Hi

 

Are any of the debts related to overdrafts? If so have you sent a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to the creditor

 

No, they weren't overdrafts - one was a credit card and the other a loan.

 

The request wasn't a SAR as such as under CPR they are required to send me copies of all documentation they intend to reply on in court. They've had two requests under the rules (for claim 1) and chosen to ignore them both - well, if you take a look at an earlier post on the thread, they didn't so much ignore them as send me a letter telling me they needed proof of ID - obviously not relevant since there is a claim. So the defence went in in time and now we wait to see what they say. Oh, the letter went to HFC and I copied it to Restons.

[Bug]

[quote=robcag;1245819

 

 

Hopefully, if I understand what I've read in this thread and others, HFC/Restons are digging a hole for themselves in not responding to my requests.

 

Good luck with your cases

 

Rob

 

I certainly hope they are

 

I'll be interested to read your thread, Rob, the more people post on this forum, the better we'll become in dealing with them ... I think it's time they were educated as to the right way to go about their business.

[hellhasnofury]

I certainly hope they are

 

I'll be interested to read your thread, Rob, the more people post on this forum, the better we'll become in dealing with them ... I think it's time they were educated as to the right way to go about their business.

 

Hello Bug,

 

I am with you 100% on this. HFC/Restons are a bit bullish in their tactics, Unfortunately, many of their victums are ignorant of their rights regarding their tactics and they don't defend themselves, and of course hfc get what they want and restons get their fees. Now what concerns me is that a firm of solicitors, who should be educated in the law, pursue these unlawful cases for money.

 

Perhaps we should be informing the law society of their conduct.

 

Any thoughts?????

[robcag]

I am with you 100% on this. HFC/Restons are a bit bullish in their tactics, Unfortunately, many of their victums are ignorant of their rights regarding their tactics and they don't defend themselves, and of course hfc get what they want and restons get their fees. Not what concerns me is that a firm of solicitors, who should be educated in the law, pursue these unlawful cases for money.

 

Perhaps we should be informing the law society of their conduct.

 

Any thoughts?????

 

Apologies if this seems like a thread hijack.

 

About 6-7 months ago I had a CCJ awarded against me after a court case in which the claimants were HFC represented by Restons.

 

A court action was commenced by Restons Solicitors and the PoC included a massive collection fee. On that occasion (being ignorant of the law and my rights) I phoned Restons to protest about about this and was told that if I admitted the outstanding debt they would drop the collection fee (obviously they would probably deny that now).

 

The upshot was that I submitted my defence via MCOL contesting the exorbitant collection charge which had been added to the debt by Restons, but admitted the main debt.

 

Result: Restons dropped their collection charge like a hot brick, but obviously the court awarded the judgement to them (due to my admission as would be expected). Restons subsequently obtained a final "Charging Order" against my house to secure the debt.

 

If I had known about this forum at that time, and therefore about "requesting a true copy of the original executed agreement as per the CCA 1974" and other matters like ensuring any default notice issued was lawful etc. things might (probably would !) have been different!

 

I am contemplating applying for the judgement to be set aside on the grounds of How can I get a CCJ removed? Section 3, Bullet point 9, [.....Possible valid reasons to have a CCJ set aside are:-], it says "Acceptance of full amount of the judgement at the time, but now only agree partially".

 

This would be because the debt claimed for in court would more than likely have included some penalty fees. Further arguments could then follow regarding the lawfulness of any default notice issued.

 

At the moment the stumbling blocks I see regarding a set-aside application are:

1. Have I left it too late?

2. The cost of any fees for this. I am on JSA at present, but maybe I would be exempt from fees for this?

3. Would it be best to get the other ongoing court case out of the way first? Or maybe disregard this factor as it may well drag on for months yet?

 

Comments welcome.

 

Rob

[Bug]

I agree hellhasnofury, thinking about it, I can't begin to imagine how many people out there are being pursued in the same manner and either don't or can't do anything about it - they will also get hammered for the same so-called 'collection charge' that Restons stick on the summons. I can quite believe that they would offer to remove the charge if you admit liability and pay up. The one thing we haven't mentioned of course is that this is a blatant attempt by HFC/Restons to convert an unsecure loan into a secured loan by way of a charging order, netting themselves an extra couple of grand on the way - abusing the court system too. Now that does get my dander up

[Bug]

Right, that's another CPR request gone off to HFC (copy to Restons), this time for the second claim. What's the betting I get yet another letter asking for a copy of my passport/driving licence, blah, blah. At this rate I'll be able to paper the walls with them!

[Bug]

Umm, thought has just occurred to me ... now that these two alleged debts are in the hands of the court, could I stop making payments pending the outcome of the court cases? Assuming that no-one comes up with a reason as to why I should keep paying, I think I will cancel the standing order to PayPlan tomorrow....

[Bug]

Sorry, robcag, I had meant to say do you want to start your own thread with yours then it won't get lost on here. I would imagine that it's not too late to apply to have the judgment set aside as long as you have reasonable grounds for the application but I'm no expert and like many other CAGers, rely on the experiences of those who help us to guide us through. Come back here with a link to your thread so I can subscribe.

 

Good luck;)

[Bug]

Ooer ... a letter from the chief big hat at Restons ....

 

"Dear Bug

 

Re: HFC Bank Limited v Yourself

Overdue credit card xxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of 20 November 2007.

 

We are familiar with the content of your letter having seen it elsewhere. We also understand that the purpose of this request is not in fact to enable you to prepare a defence to a claim for an outstanding debt but rather an attempt to place an onerous burden on our client to provide information outside the normal timeframes and without the payment of any fee.

 

"While we are more than happy to ask our client to provide you with a copy of the Legal Agreement, Terms and Conditions and copy statements under the CPR you will need to make your request through the proper channels for any other infromation you require.

 

"We further note from reviewing our file that you have not previously advised this Company of any dispute regarding the outstanding debt and your defence/request for infromation appears to be generated by a desire to prevent a Judgment being obtained against you.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Mr N Coe, Managing Director

Restons Solicitors Limited."

 

 

Does this actually warrant/deserve a reply?

 

I AM suprised that I have had a reply on this one ... seeing as I got diddly squat with the letters sent for the first summons!

 

My feelings are:

 

They are still obliged, BY LAW, to furnish me with everything they intend to rely on in Court and no matter how they want to dress it up, there's no get-out clause for them on that one.

 

What do they mean by 'onerous burden'? Frankly my only question there is do they have the flippin' CCA or don't they - the repeated mistakes in their dates would suggest NOT.

 

They think I don't want a CCJ against me ... well, d'hu ... how many of us do? No, I've seen through their poorly disguised attempt to turn an unsecure loan into a secured one and that's using underhand tactics.

 

My concerns are:

 

How can I prepare any defence while they're stalling like this?

 

I want to reclaim any penalty charges/interest thereon but really haven't the foggiest how much to claim - though it's certainly feasible that it's much more than they say I owe - there are numerical discrepancies everywhere and without statements I really don't stand a chance of working the figures out reliably.

 

What does anyone think?

 

Bug

[pt2537]

Hi Bug,

 

what a load of ball hooks,

 

dont worry, RE a defence, we can get around this fairly easily

 

see this thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/121049-how-defend-claim-loan-2.html#post1264421

 

i prepared a defence for another user who was in the same position,

 

can you confirm what dates things need to be in by please?

 

regards

paul