Northern Rock Debt sold to Fairmile Recoveries

[limpetlad]

12 years ago I handed back a house worth around £15k at most the mortgage owed was £12k, am unsure as it was 12 years ago, in june I received a letter from asset recoveries UK Ltd claiming they were acting for Fairmile Recoveries who I owed £20k to also in the same envelope a letter from Northern Rock saying they had assigned the debt over.

 

I initially contacted Northern Rock and they didnt have any record as it was over 12 years and that over 300 letters had been sent to other customers in error and not to worry about it, I contacted Asset Recoveries who asked me for proof that I had paid this 'outstanding debt', I told them to contact Northern Rock for more details as thats what Northern Rock had told me to, since then I have wrote to Asset Recoveries asking what the 'outstanding debt' is for and how its made up, they have written to me again 'stating' that both Northern Rock and the original recovery agency had no record of any payments. I wrote to Asset Recoveries again asking for proof of what the debt was for and how it was made up. All letters sent recorded delivery. Today received a letter saying they had not heard from me since the letter dated 6th July 2007 and are now requesting contact from me to discuss an amicable method of repayment to Fairmile Recoveries.

 

Since the initial letter sent 6th of July I contacted them twice in writing asking for details of the debt which they have not supplied.

 

Can anybody advise on what the next step should be.

 

Thanks

[jowalshy]

I am not sure whether this link will help you as you have made contact with the debt agency:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/115702-j2-solutions-collecting-10-a.html?highlight=12+year+old+debt

[TideTurner]

Limpetlad,

 

There doesn't appear to be any clarity here as to the actual debt claimed by Asset Recovery. Also of note is the fact they have not mentioned any form of proceedings.

 

Looks like they are 'trying it on'.

 

Ask them for all details of the debt, who instructed them, how they received your information, and full copies of all information upon which they will rely in support of their 'claim'.

 

If they do not provide this, they should remove all of your information from their systems and provide confirmation that this has been removed.

 

Tide

[vandermerwe]

Hi Limpetlad

 

Suggest you lay a bit more on with a trowel:

 

a) who are they?;

 

b) who regulates them?;

 

c) identity of their directors?;

 

d) details of their official complaints procedure.

 

Please keep us posted - a moderator might move you to another site, and I'll try to follow you there.

 

Good luck!

 

Vandermerwe

[diskmandave]

Hello, and welcome to the forums.

 

At over 12 years this, as a mortgage, may be Statute barred.

 

When was the last payment and/or acknowledgement of the debt in writing?

 

As previously suggested, more information is needed.

 

Regards, Dave.

[gizmo111]

.

 

Please keep us posted - a moderator might move you to another site, and I'll try to follow you there.

 

Good luck!

 

Vandermerwe

 

Hi,

 

I have indeed moved you the general debt forum where you will get lots of advice. The point above about being over 12 years old is the most important to end it quickly, but as no one seems to have any details of the debt I wouldn't worry too much anyway until the next letter. I woulldl check your credit file though to make sure that they haven't put anything adverse on there.

[limpetlad]

quick update, I got a letter again from asset recoveries stating I hadnt replied to their original letter dated in july and asking me to phone them to arrange repayment, i sent a registered letter back to them and to northern rock asking again for a breakdown of whats owed and stating that I do not acknowledge the debt and that I would only deal with them in writing.

 

Got a letter today the 18th saying

 

we refer to our letter dated 5th october (sent 17th) and are disappointed that you have not contacted us. It may be that you are mistaken as to our clients intentions in seeking recovery of monies properly due from you to it as outlined in earlier correspondance and the Notice of Assisgnment served upon you. Interest continues to accrue upon monies outstanding from you and it is certainly in your interest to make contact with us as a matter of urgency to discuss an amicable method for repayment of your obligations. If we do not hear from you our client will conclude that you do not wish to treat the obligation seriously and one which needs your immediate attention.

 

Your failure to reply to this letter is likely to lead to a course of action which will involve court proceedings. Such proceedings will include a claom for costs and interest and you will almost certainly need to take time off work to attend before the Judge and explain why you have not responded to our letters seeking constructive proposals for repayment of your obligations.

 

Once again we therefore ask that you contact our clients asset manager on the following phone number.

 

End

 

need advice on the next step, this is the first time that court has been mentioned and I admit it has now got me a little worried. what should I do?

 

Thanks for the help so far.

[Robdblynd]

When you've written to them have all the letters been signed for?

 

Check your tracking number of the Royal Mail website

 

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm

 

and see when they were signed for and who signed for them.

 

Then contact Asset again, in writing, send special delivery and tell them that they have had responses, detail when they signed for them etc, and ask that they comply with your request for details.

 

Then sit back and wait for them to hang themselves even more.

[limpetlad]

bit of an update, I wrote to them again listing exactly when they signed for my replies to each and every letter with copies of each letter and questioning again how the debt was made up, what was it for, if it was for a repossession then how was the house re-marketed upkeep and the like, valuations ext, then I got

Dated 1st November

 

Dear Mr Gardner

Thank you for your letter dated 22nd October and all the previous letters, I have requested the information you require and will contact you with the details as soon as I receive them.

 

Please don not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.

 

Finally, we should make it clear that any concession time or indulgence which our client may appear to grant or willing to do so as may be inferred from our correspondence is entirely without prejudice to our client's right to insist upon full and complete performance of the obligations undertaken by you unless and until the matter is settled to our client's complete satisfaction and is acknowledged by them to be so satisfied.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

Then nothing from them or northern rock then this dated 12th november

 

 

'Without Prejudice'

 

Further to your letter dated 17th October, I have contacted Northern Rock regarding your outstanding liability to **** addresss, Gorton, Manchester. They have advised me that you have been in contact with them direct and they have supplied all the information that you have requested.

 

Therefore would you please contact me so we can discuss payment arrangements.

 

Finally, we should make it clear that any concession time or indulgence which our client may appear to grant or willing to do so as may be inferred from our correspondence is entirely without prejudice to our client's right to insist upon full and complete performance of the obligations undertaken by you unless and until the matter is settled to our client's complete satisfaction and is acknowledged by them to be so satisfied.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

End

 

Right so they've acknowledged that I have replied and also are asking pertinent questions but skirting the issue that they have no idea and or not willing to tell me how the debt is made up.

 

your advice so far has been amazing and I only hope that someone can be of further help with this.

 

Thanks so far.

[rory32]

Further to your letter dated 17th October, I have contacted Northern Rock regarding your outstanding liability to **** addresss, Gorton, Manchester. They have advised me that you have been in contact with them direct and they have supplied all the information that you have requested.

 

I assume they have supplied no information. Is that correct?

[sillygirl1]

Tell them that NR have no record of the debt and therefore there are no payment proposals from you as the debt is now Statute Barred. Also mention that you are reporting them to the Information Commission and Financial services ombudsman for non compliance of your requests. Even though you didn't request via a CCA this still might be worth a try.

 

They shouldn't be chasing you for the interest on the debt (which is what they may have increased the original amount by) after a certain time, think that is 6 years for repo..

[rory32]

They shouldn't be chasing you for the interest on the debt (which is what they may have increased the original amount by) after a certain time, think that is 6 years for repo..

Correct. 12 years for the mortgage, 6 years for the interest.

[limpetlad]

yep your right that I have not received anything from northern rock or the dca except for the letters already stated asking for £19k

[GLADSTANES]

Has anyone had any recent dealings with Fairmile Recoveries please?

 

It seems they bought a lot of Northern Rock debt at the end of May 2007.

 

Clearly they did not pay face value for it. Has anyone settled with them?

 

All information very welcome.

[limpetlad]

okay another update, I got a letter from the asset recoveries saying the northern rock had now contacted me and answered my questions and can I phone and arrange payment.

 

Sent them another letter stating that I had had no correspondance from Northern Rock and until I had I would not discuss this any further, got another letter from asset simply stating I should call them as it was in my best interest then a letter yesterday stating,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 4th Dec, your comments have been noted

Please find attached a copy of mortgage shortfall that I received from Northen Rock, I was lead to believe that this information had been sent to you,

I await your reply

 

there was another piece of plain printed paper that says

 

We obtained a 28 day possesion order on 25 Sep 2000

 

Mortgage granted fromm Northern Rock on 16/9/1993 for £27500

Valuation of Property £32500

 

Property taken into possesion 9 Jan 01

Arrears Outstanding on that date £1485.60

 

Two Independent valuations were obtained for £12000 and £14000

An offer of £12000 was received on 28 Feb 2001 and contracts were exchanged on 21 March 2001

The Sale completed on 3 April 2001 and was sold for £12000

 

The Shortfall on the account £19896.00

Please find enclosed a completion statement showing the cost of the sale (then hand written) TO FOLLOW

 

Balance at Redemption 29549.54

Plus

Solicitors Costs + VAT 243.80

Estate Agents + VAT 1069.99

Maintenance + VAT 483.21

Asset Manager Charge + VAT 262.33

Valuation Fee 99.88

Poss Int 187.25

Less:-

Sale Price 12000

 

Total Loss 19896.00

 

End

 

 

Now ive found proof on the land registry that the property sold for £23000 in april 2001, whats the next step.

[lookinforinfo]

There are a number of things that don't appear to add up Limpetlad.

Twelve years ago would have been around 1995, at which time you said the

house was worth around £15,000 and you had left a mortgage of £12,000 or so.

According to your last post, Asset Recoveries say the house was purchased two years earlier [1993] for £27500, and had been valued at £32,500. I know

that property did nosedive for a while back then, but not by as much as 54%.

And did you manage to pay off so much money in two years {£15000+]?

 

Then the next questions relate to what happened between when you handed back the property [around 1995] and when it was apparently next sold in 2001. Building Societies were usually pretty quick to offload properties that

had been abandoned.

I accept that you probably had not paid a Mortgage Indemnity Guarantee, so

NR had more to lose on your property than some others perhaps and may not have been too keen to get rid. However they appear to have accepted an

offer from Asset Recoveries for less than £12000 not later than September 2000. So why keep the property for so long before selling it since they would

have had to spend money covering the insurance on the house, plus rates etc

plus loss of return on capital invested.

 

Then we come to the question of the selling price in April 2001, which is a long way from the £12000 quoted, and very much at odds with the valuations. Was the house bought for £12000 and very quickly sold on for £23,000, or are Asset Recoveries not quite right on their assessments?

 

You were asked earlier to see what your credit file said about the situation.

If you haven't yet done so, now might be a good time. Once you see what

is shown may determine whether you ignore it or send an sar to Northern Rock. Do not throw away that letter from AR.

[tallulah148]

Hi Im new, just wondered how you were getting on Limpetland?

 

my partner has also received a letter from Asset Recoveries in July regarding a mortgage shortfall of 35k. This debt is only 8 years old. He has passed this to a solicitor but they keep ignoring the solicitor and keep trying to contact my partner via the telephone. He has offered to pay a small amount subject to them giving us all the information, which they havent. The solicitor has not heard from them since July.

 

Can anyone offer any advice.

[TideTurner]

Welcome to CAG Tallulah!

 

STOP!! Don't make any offers to pay them until you have read and understand the posts above, and had a look at some other similar threads, and obtained the information above and below.

 

First and foremost, you need clarification of this debt from the LENDER, not the Debt Collection Agent. Request a complete breakdown of their 'claim' by letter, and don't have any further dealings with the DCA until you are sure the debt has been assigned properly (this will be a term in your original contract. You should have received a letter / notification from the lender that the debt ownership was being transferred.

 

As the claim is large, make a SAR to the lender (a request for all information they hold) and include a £10.00 fee.

 

Include the line "Please note, any claims made by yourselves are wholly disputed until you provide all requested information in full."

 

If the DCA telephone you, tell them that the debt is in dispute with the lender and any further communication should be made by letter.

 

The lender has 40 days to provide a copy of all information they currently hold on you. Once you receive the information, look for any charges, (including insurance, late payment, etc. and post again.

 

In the interim, keep all letters and make notes of any contact you have with them - dates, times, who you spoke to, copies of all letters incoming / outgoing etc.

 

Read the above posts thoroughly, which will provide more info before you begin.

 

All the best

 

Tide

[limpetlad]

Hi everyone, thanks for your help so far with this.

 

Another update, got a letter two weeks ago saying they were aware that I was a home owner and were informing me that their client (change from asset being the debt owner) had a right to take proceedings with a view to obtaining a charge on my property, that charge would give their client the right to seek an order of court directing the sale of the property which would deprive me of my home.

 

in the meantime i had issued nr with a s.a.r. which they have not replied to, so I wrote back to asset again stating that I had issued nr with a s.a.r. as per my last correspondance.

 

Today I got this

 

 

We have now written to you several times and you have failed to respond to our letters. It maybe that you have your own reasons for not making contact with us and we would urge you to make contact with us either by letter or telephone as a matter of urgency and let us know whether you wish to resolve the claim against you in an amicable way.

 

In our last letter we explained to you that our client had the right to take proceedings against you with a view to obtaining a charge over your property, that charge would give their client the right to seek an order of court directing the sale of your property which would deprive you of your home.Our client does not wish to pursue this course and would rather into into an amicable discussion with you to identify a way of dealing with its claim without the need for unnecessary court action with the consequence that substantial additional costs will be claimed from you.

 

One way of dealing with the matter is to give our client a Voluntary Charge over your property to secure an agreed sum. Entirely without prejudice to our client's rights to seek recovery of the full amount due to it, our client may be minded to grant some reduction in the amount of its claim if you negotiate with us in good faith to resolve the claim against you.

We would invite you to give our client a Voluntary Charge for an agreed sum which would have the effect of registering a charge against your property which would become payable either on a fixed date or upon sale of the property, whichever we can agree with you.

 

Please now contact us within a few days.

 

End

 

yet again they ignore that they have signed for letters sent back to them and have continued to contact despite the fact that im chasing nr for details, also how can they advise me to place a charge on my property when im disputing that I owe them or their client any money at all, also how can they send me a letter of assignment and then claim the client still owns the debt once I s.a.r. them.

 

All in all its making me rather ill and when you add in the fact that im being a kidney donor in the next few months I could do with getting this sorted once and for all.

Any help or advice people can give would be greatfully appreciated

 

thanks

limpet

[sillygirl1]

Don't let them do this - it is wrong. You would be signing away your rights. They basically have no leg to stand on over this - it certainly is beyond the statute of limitations for mortgage debt (12 years) and they are fishing for money as their income source (bank lending) has dried up.

 

I think you need to get a tersley worded letter to them informing them that unless they are prepared to have a Civil Procedures Rule Part 18 request for full information regarding the sale of the property and the sale of the debt and any correspondence or action taken between the two points they will get nothing.

 

Maybe now is the time to seek advice from the National Debtline people, they are more clued up than CAB and should be able to help you.

[rory32]

These are standard template letters you are receiving. Try not to be worried by them. They can not simply just go for a charging order, they would need to get a CCJ first. For the CCJ they would need to prove that they debt is not statute barred if you defended. They would also need to prove that the house was properly valued and maintained and marketed at the correct market value and sold for a reasonable market price.

 

I think your next step is to make a complaint to Trading Standards. Also make a complaint to the DCA. If the DCA don't deal with it to your satisfaction you can pass the complaint to the FOS.

[GLADSTANES]

Hallo.

 

I too have had personal and painful dealings with these parasites.

 

My analysis of what I have read about your situation leads me to believe that their postion is actually very weak.

 

That is why they have asked you to give them a Voluntary Charging Order.

 

As the other writer stated they would first have to get a County Court Judgment against you before they could possibly be granted a charging order.

 

For them to get a CCJ clearly they would have to take you to Court and present their case against you. For them to do this they will have to tell the judge and yourself ALL THE FACTS. I firmly believe they do not want to do this because they would very likely get nothing.

 

Please DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED by these idiots.

 

Let them take you to Court.

 

Then beat them and claim costs if you can.

 

Finally- should they by some amazing fluke be granted a Charging Order on your property they CANNOT FORCE YOU TO SELL IT unless the circumstances are exceptional- such as bankruptcy- and most County Court Judges do not want people to lose their homes. A Charging Order only means that if you sell it they are entitled to receive some of the proceeds depending on whether theirs is a first, second or even third charge.

 

All the very best

 

Gladstanes

[Nordkapp]

We find ourselves in a similar predicament - letter from Fairmile asking for 5k repayment of Northern Rock reposession shortfall debt (DOA, etc) from 11 years ago.

 

Luckily, the person on the recieving end has little in the way of assets, does not work, and has no interest in any property, so we're just ignoring any correspondence (based on professional legal advice). We are informed on that basis that there is nothing that could be gained by taking a person of straw to court, and I personally think that Fairmile, from a business point of view would prefer not to gamble in court, and go for the 'low-hanging fruit' instead.

 

Couple of points someone may be able to help with though, and maybe food for thought....

 

1) Has anyone lodged a complaint against NR with the Financial Ombudsman (FOS)? Whilst chasing a mortgage capital debt after a decade may be legal, is it ethical that NR's FIRST course of action (10 yrs after the Repo Order) is to assign the debt by deed to a DCA without even attempting to contact the debtor?

 

2) Note that ALL customer complaints via the Ombudsman automatically accrue (I believe) a 400 pound charge against the bank regardless of whether the claim is upheld

 

3) Does NR's action in 1) contravene the banking code?

 

4) Does NR's action in 1) contravene their own mortgage T+C's? (regrettably we don't have a copy of the mortgage small print from 1996)

 

Good luck everyone

[limpetlad]

Hi Everyone and thanks for the help and advice so far.

 

have a bit of an update, I have been out of action just recently as I have been a kidney donor to my very poorly brother so have spent a considerable time in hospital and am still slowly recovering.

 

Received a letter today from Lawsmiths ( same address as Asset Recoveries)

 

 

Our Client: Fairmile Recoveries LLP(as Assignee of Northern Rock plc) NR******* Claim for £19,896.18 and interest

 

We act for Fairmile Recoveries LLP and are writing to you at the request of their asset manager, Asset Recoveries UK Limited in connection with your outstanding liabilities to Fairmile Recoveries LLP, which arose out of your mortgage to Northern Rock plc. We understand that our client's asset manager has written a number of letters to you inviting you to discuss with them proposals for payment of our client's claim. As yet you have not agreed to make a payment of a settlement sum and hence we have now been instructed to commence lega action against you. The purpose of this letter is to inform you of this course of action and to request that you make contact now to discuss a settlement with us.

 

If we do not hear from you our instructions are to proceed with legal action. As you will appreciate the costs of legal proceedings will be recoverable from you and could add significantly to the monies you already owe, which will also include an interest claim for the years during which the debt has been outstanding. Should you be in any doubt about our client's intention to seek recovery of monies by legal means please let us assure you that we will be proceeding with legal action if we do not hear from you by 5 September 2008.

 

Legal work has not yet started byt will do so if you ignore this letter.

 

You may wish to contact our client's asset manager, Asset Recoveries UK Limited by telephoning 0161 *** **** and speaking to Dominic Powell. If you wish to do you should make contact within the next 7 days, and we urge you to do so.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Lawsmiths

 

 

Unsure what to make of this as the last letter from Asset Recoveries sated they would not be contacting me again as I obviously had no intention of paying this debt.

 

Any help will be greatfully recieved.

 

Thanks

matt

[lookinforinfo]

I am sorry to hear of your predicament andhope that both you and your brother are recovering well.

 

I daresay that with all that going on in the background, tha last thing you need is Asset Recovery poking their nose. Have you sent them the Statute Barred letter and also got a copy of your credit file? Send the SB letter by recorded delivery as it would seem their ability to read is somewhat lacking.

 

Whatever you do, don't speak to them on the phone.