Alf v Barcalycard - RMA - 1st Credit - Connoughts - Now Mack Hall

[ODC]

I would also add that the fact Worst Credit have passed it on to their paramilitary wing would also tend to suggest that its UNENFORCEABLE

[alfwithhair]

Cheers lads for the info.

Will leave the idiots to stew for a while, see what their next plan of action is.

[bazaar]

Also, their strange comment about the t&c's being marked with an X. Certainly make them look stupid. They state that they are assumptions they have to make. Then go on to say these dont apply until after someone has executed the agreement. So where is that executed agreement.???

So in effect, they have admitted failing to oblige you with the agreement and a letter from you should be winging its way to them shortly:)

[alfwithhair]

Also, their strange comment about the t&c's being marked with an X. Certainly make them look stupid. They state that they are assumptions they have to make. Then go on to say these dont apply until after someone has executed the agreement. So where is that executed agreement.???

So in effect, they have admitted failing to oblige you with the agreement and a letter from you should be winging its way to them shortly:)

 

Interesting point bazaar.

Would you have a suitably worded letter I could drop through their letterbox?

[bazaar]

This is a 42Man special, so this may do it for you. Ive added a little something about those terms as well. Just make sure you delete stuff not needed and add in anything relevant.

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

RE: Agreement/Account number

 

Thank you for your response to my letter dated xxxxxx 2009, making a formal request for a true copy of the original credit agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

The documents you supplied me appear to be no more than an unsigned application form, and as such are not a satisfactory response to my request. Nowhere on the front of the document is there any reference to the prescribed terms and conditions that such an agreement must contain. I must assume that these are unconnected documents and once again inadequate to satisfy your obligations.

Furthermore, the Terms and Conditions you have supplied, clearly state that the APR and Interest rates are intentionally left blank until after the alleged 'agreement' has been completed.

This in effect, shows that you have clearly not satisfied your obligations to my legal request.

I therefore demand sight of the executed agreement.

 

As you are aware you are obliged to provide me with a true copy of my agreement as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974. and I consider that you have failed to comply with my request for these documents

 

 

Under the terms of the above Act, a creditor has 12 working days to provide the requested documents. This deadline has now passed and I have not received the requested documents from you.

 

As I am sure you are aware, an agreement that does not contain all of the prescribed terms, and/or is not signed by the debtor, is completely unenforceable & I therefore consider that this account is in dispute with immediate effect & it follows that all payments to this account are suspended forthwith.

 

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

You must not pass this account to any third party.

You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

You must not issue a default notice on this account

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours faithfully

[alfwithhair]

Well a brown envelope on the doorstep this morning with

"TO BE OPENED BY THE ADDRESSEE ONLY - THIS IS NOT A CIRCULAR"

plastered on the front. I thought "this looks interesting"

 

Guess who it was from, The 'Kilmarnock Cowboys'

Both 1st Crudit and CONoughts have decided legal action was not the best way forward with no agreement, so have enlisted the help of 'Scotish Threat Monkeys' in the hope I will cave in and pay.

 

Is it worth sending them the 'bemused' letter, or just ignore them and hope they do take further action?

 

I have heard on the grapevine that once this outfit are on your case you are on to a good thing as they only collect unenforceable debt.

 

As RMA, 1st Crud and CONoughts have all threatened legal action but never carried it through, suggests to me that there is insufficient paperwork to bring a case.

 

What do the good people of CAG thinks?

 

Alf

[Curlyben]

File it under I, or even better nail it to the back of the loo door, just in case you run out of paper.

 

Muckie hall don't deserve even the cost of a stamp.

 

they can't do toffee anyway as they are acting as agent for another DCA

[alfwithhair]

File it under I, or even better nail it to the back of the loo door, just in case you run out of paper.

 

Muckie hall don't deserve even the cost of a stamp.

 

they can't do toffee anyway as they are acting as agent for another DCA

 

Wasn't going to waste a stamp on them Ben. LOL

Email is good enough for them.

But if a reply is not required I will do as suggested and file under 'I'

[alfwithhair]

Have been at a bit of a loose end this afternoon, so decided to send yet another complaint to OFT & TS about 1st Crud.

 

How many more times do they need to be warned about trying to collect on disputed debts before the authorities actually do something about it.

 

They rearly take the buscuit this lot, passing it on to other outside collectors to be their dirty work for them in the hope the OFT might not notice what there up to.

[ODC]

You should also report Muck Hall as they have already been warned about chasing stat barred debts

[alfwithhair]

You should also report Muck Hall as they have already been warned about chasing stat barred debts

 

I did mention 'Muckies' in both complaints as the latest in a long line of DCA's that this account has been through. Most of which 1st Credit has enlisted.

 

Although it isn't statue barred, just disputed due to non compliance of a CCA request, I am sure they must be breaking some rule or other by trying to collect on a disputed debt.

[mr.ton]

Why are DCA dead lines always noon ive noticed?

[The GodMother]

File it under I, or even better nail it to the back of the loo door, just in case you run out of paper.

 

Muckie hall don't deserve even the cost of a stamp.

 

they can't do toffee anyway as they are acting as agent for another DCA

 

 

Why not make them pay to recieve ur complaint cause if u dont put a stamp on it they have to pay the stamp and £1 for the privilage.

[42man]

Changing thread title....

[alfwithhair]

A had a reply from 1st Crud this morning regard the lastest string of complaints.

 

 

So the question is have they complied as they say with the CCA 1974?

 

They have as they say sent a copy of an application form;

 

Unsigned or dated by the creditor and it does contain the line they state "this is a cdreit agreements regulated by the comsumer credit act 1974. sign it if you want to be bound by its terms

Hoever they say that the prescribed terms are contained within the Barclaycard conditions which are mentioned within the signed document, a copy of which has been provided.

 

Now the only reference I can find on this 'application form' relating to any terms is

"You have read and agreed to the Barclaycard conditions, especially condition 15 which is about how we can use infomation about you"

 

But there is no Condition 15 within this seperate conditions sheet?

 

Then there is the rubbish about them having no knowledge of any dispute and that the selling of the account to them whilst it was disputed with someone else is not there problem.

 

I have been told many times on here that this so called application/agreement is not enforceable but would like to knoe if they have no 'fulfilled' there odligations re the CCA act.

 

They say they have and have sufficient documentation on file the prove the debt.

 

Now proving a debt and enforcing a debt I would assume or two different things?

 

So is this their feeble attempt at saying 'you' owe it and we can prove it, but the courts would not enforce it.

 

I would be pleased to hear everbodies comment on this one.

 

Thanks again

Alf

[pt2537]

nope not compliant in the slightest

 

did that terms and conditions sheet get laid before you when you signed it?

 

if not then it is not compliant with s61(1)(a) CCA 1974

[alfwithhair]

Hi Paul,

 

From what I can remember the application was one of them pre approved mail shot things through the post.

 

It may have had something on it, but certainly wasn't the terms they sent, page is the wrong size.

 

So account still disputed then quoting s61(1)(a) CCA 1974 to them yes.

[pt2537]

this was the submission from David Berkley QC in a case recently in leeds

 

i hope it helps

 

"The key words in Section 61(1)(a) are the reference to a document itself containing all the prescribed terms, and conforming to the regulations under Section 61. This language is clear and specific, and ensures that mere reference to terms contained in another document will not suffice. The document must contain the prescribed terms, just as the signed document referred to in Section 127(3), which might save the day, must however contain the prescribed terms. The construction contended for by the defendant is entirely consistent with the language of Section 61(1), and is also supported by Professor Good in his encyclopaedic work - see Good & Consumer Credit Law and Practice volume 2, 2B 5.121, and see also the comments at 2B 5.247. There the learned author draws a distinction between the language of paragraph

(a) contain and paragraph (b) embody. It is respectfully submitted that the court should adopt the same reasoning in determining this issue in favour of the defendant, irrespective of whether or not it finds that the defendant was supplied with documents other than the credit agreement itself".

 

[alfwithhair]

So should I write back to 1st Crud and tell them they have not complied or just ignore this letter?

Edited July 2, 2009 by alfwithhair

[pt2537]

well,

 

i cant tell you what to do, but, if it were my case, i wouldnt wait for them to get their house in order,

 

id get them into court and bring an action against them for declaratory relief

[alfwithhair]

well,

 

i cant tell you what to do, but, if it were my case, i wouldnt wait for them to get their house in order,

 

id get them into court and bring an action against them for declaratory relief

 

Sounds good to me Paul. So how is this done then.

Also what is hoped to be attchieved by this action?

[pt2537]

This is what you expect to achieve

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

 

 

1) A declaration made under s 142 (1) CCA 1974 that the agreement (a copy of which is attached) to these particulars is improperly executed and therefore unenforceable under s 127 (3) CCA 1974

 

2) Further, by reason of the Defendants breaches aforesaid of both prescribed and other terms, the relationship between the parties was unfair to the claimant within the meaning of s140A of the CCA 1974

 

3) An order made pursuant to s14 Data Protection Act 1998, ordering the Defendant to remove all adverse data from the Claimants credit file in relation to this matter

 

4) Costs

[alfwithhair]

So is that what I put on the N1 form?

Is there a thread on here you know of were this action had been pursued that I could get some tips from.

 

All very interesting stuff this mate

[alfwithhair]

Any one got a good letter disputing an account on the grounds that what they have sent is not compliant with s61(1)(a) CCA 1974 as mentioned earlier in the thread.

[alfwithhair]

Have sent my final letter to 1st crud.

Have told them either sent me a copy of the executed agreement or be taking action against them for declaratory relief.

 

Am sick of messing about with the idiots now.

I know there isn't one as Barclayshark never sent one to be signed.