on your last point, no overnight guests allowed. On your first point, I have raised this with landlord but not Police. I am going to move out!

Hi. I rent a room within a flat-share of 4 rooms and one of the rooms has recently been let to someone who is a drug-user and having friends of theirs stay. This has frightened me but the landlord will do nothing about it. I have found another flat but have to give 3 months notice for my room. Can I refuse to pay that 3 months as I feel that the landlord has made my stay impossible or am I required by law to do so. I feel that the landlord broke our contract by moving this person in (my flatmates are also leaving but their tenancy agreements were coming up for renewal so they have nothing to pay) but have they? Is there any law on this?

I understand that FOS will not consider a complaint already going through the courts, so if you want FOS to look at it, you'll have to delay court action....

Going back to the original post and letter from Essex police, I believe they are wrong when they say that HCEO's can charge whatever they want. They can only charge what the regulations say they can charge and this doesn't say they can charge whatever they want. They can only charge what the regulations say they can and Section C doesn't give them carte blanche. I suggest Essex police are written to asked how they came to their conclusion, asking them to cite exactly where it says that HCEOs can charge whatever they like. This is not an area the police understand and if Essex police can learn, then maybe they can spread the word. As said elsewhere, one problem is that debtors get scared by a visit from 'the High Court' and when told that if they don't pay, their house will be emptied, don't want to take the risk of arguing the finer details. If everyone knew what could and couldn't happen, in reality, it would help..... HCEOs who charge ridiculous fees do not benefit debtors, creditors or other HCEOs. Obviously they make a nice profit for themselves but they tarnish the name of HCEOs and the High Court and in taking 'extra' money from debtors, make it likely their financial problems will be made worse. The best solution for everyone would be to have a precise list of charges published that HCEOs can charge, instead of leaving the wooly 'Section C' wording in place. There's lots of talk about this happening but I really can't see why it's difficult! So maybe we should just be telling the government to get on with that!

then there's the picture of my house with an empty driveway - so strangely no sign of the car I never had that they claimed to have levied against (and on doing a vehicle check, couldn't trace?)? You already have details of my case (where Sherforce dropped out of the Fees Assessment rather than have judgement made against them) I'm afraid I doubt the will of any of the institutions (whether it be the police, the MoJ, the High Court, Lord Chancellor or HM Government etc etc) to do anything on this.....It's got to be tried but I'm very disillusioned with the HCEO regulation. It just seems it's down to individuals to fight on a case by case basis. I hope the police prove me wrong

It may be because the FSA have looked atr this under MCOB breaches (Mortgage Conduct of Business) and perhaps these rules didn't come in until 2004 or GMAC were not regulated by the FSA until 2004 My feeling is that GMAC have accepted the principle of not being able to charge more than it costs them and so the door is open to claim back from before 2004. Also note that mortgage charges can be claimed back 12 years, not just 6 years I would have a go!

I'm sorry it didn't work out fully. You could contact the Master and ask them about an appeal, saying that you do not understand how they arrived at the amounts they did Going for a transcript would take at least 14 days and I would imagine you would need to appeal within 7-14 days, so there isn't time for that. A transcript has to be professionally done and would cost about £150 I would try contacting the Master's secretary first and saying you don't really understand how those numbers were arrived at and how would you go about appealing. It won't do any harm to ask It will have cost Sherforce more than £300 to atend and, as Wonkeydonkey says, the more times they are properly challenged, the better. Ultimately, however, a Judge or Master makes the final decision and consistency is not always apparent! Keep the faith!

As HCEO's go Wilson & Co are one of the better ones - I know that comment will upset some people but I consider HCEOs to, unfortunately, serve a purpose. In your case, if you'd contacted the court and creditor after getting the CCJ, you could have come to an instalment arrangement and only be looking at paying back £1538. As it is, you didn't and so you have given an HCEO work However, they haven't gained entry, so can't charge an Inventory Fee or anything to do with Walking Possession I would write to them (copying in the original creditor) stating you can afford £x per month but will only pay the debt, plus transfer up costs, sheriff's poundage and mileage plus interest at 8%pa and nothing else. It would be good to send them the first payment if you can. Under HCEO regulations, any other costs must be incurred or justified by the HCEO and they will struggle to do this. They would LIKE to charge you 25p per day walking possession plus have you sign a Walking Possession Agreement so that they can enter your premises if they need to but they cannot force you to do this, so don't sign Do try to pay back the debt and understand that because it has been passed to the HCEO there are some fees to pay (and interest) but I would estimate that little more than £1800 is due in total Don't offer more than you can afford but do try to pay it off

Nulla Bona, I'd be interested to see where your 7.5% came from, let alone "a few hundred £ for a first visit" HCEO fees regulations do not state these amounts and if charges don't reflect actual costs, then they can't be justified Why should it cost 7.5% of a debt to collect it? So a £1,000 debt costs £75 but a £2,000 debt costs £150. Why's that? As soon as %s are used, it strikes me someone's just looking to make a profit

If you operate your business from your home, they can't force entry to get goods (unless you have already signed a Walking Possession Agreement) If you work from a shop or office etc, they can force entry so that could be a problem What is your business? Are there goods they can seize?

Have a look at my comments in the other thread on Sherforce I did what you have done (paid the debt but not the ridiculous fees) took Sherforce to a Fees Assessment Hearing and they pulled out when they saw they were going to lose and ended up paying my costs There's nothing to fear from the Hearing other than Sherforce producing evidence on the day that you've never seen and having loads of contradictory evidence! You can win! They can't charge excessive fees when you've paid so quickly and can't argue that you should be paying for aspects of their service/company that were never used in your case.....well, they can argue but common-sense says that can't be right and the law agreed with me on that! check the thread Sheerfarce Fraud/Deception or pm me if you want any help

If they have seized goods outside the premises (eg a car) then those could be subject to a WPA. The main thing is, they have had to have been able to touch the goods they seized. If they just looked through a window, say, they can't seize them. If the car was outside, they can

If they've just shoved a note through the door but haven't actually entered the premises, I'd say 'no, the WP fee isn't allowed' Looking through the window and making an inventory, then posting a WPA through the door is where the bailiff came to grief in the case of Evans v South Ribble If they have gained entry but you just wouldn't sign the WPA, then they could argue their case. If you never met them and just came home to find a WPA, don't sign it and don't pay anything to do with WP. They are, in my opinion, chancing their arm

Sherforce adding ridiculous fees has all to do with their profits and nothing to do with helping collect the debt, so I agree on that. but by the time it gets to Sherforce, there will have already been several opportunities to try to sort things out. If you can't pay it all, offer to pay by instalments and start payng by instalments! If everyone who owed me money, paid me back at £1 a week, I wouldn't be happy but at least I'd save on sending reminder letters etc. It would be something and a way forward! So here's another rant aimed at all debtors (myself included): If debts can't be paid because people are ill, unemployed, bereaved etc, there must be a responsibility to tell creditors that! At the start! Don't tell the bailiffs (as you say, they're not interested) but do tell the people you owe the money to straight away. If you don't tell them, they won't know! Of course, they might still chase you for the debt but if it goes to court and you say, look: this, this and this has happened and here's my letter telling them this and here's the £1 a week I've been sending them, I'm sure a judge would say "clearly you're in difficulty but have been trying and I don't think this case should come before me...keep on paying if that's all you can afford". What's happening instead is the business sends out letters that get binned (and I know because I've received such letters) and the hope is they'll go away (or there'll be a lottery win or something and magically I will be able to pay). Eventually the business goes for a CCJ (and usually those court claim papers get ignored to) and then it's not long before the likes of Sherforce turn up. It shouldn't get that far! We're almost in an alchoholics anonymous situation here. The first thing a debtor needs to do is say "I'm a debtor and I've got myself in debt" and the next thing is "I'm not going to get myself in more debt and I'm going to pay back the debts I have". They can't be paid in one go, overnight (if they could, you wouldn't be in debt!) but "every journey begins with a single step" and debtors need to take the initiative. Work out what can be afforded and start to repay! Head off the likes of Sherforce by never letting it get to the court stage (let alone the bailiffs). Face up to your responsibilities and pay back the money you owe. If the creditor says "no" to your £1, ignore them. Keep paying £1. If they slap on interest, don't get distracted from paying your £1 and when the debt has been repaid, tell them it's been repaid!...but, accept that you should pay some sort of interest because you're late! but it must be reasonable.... Of course, if you can afford more than £1, pay more than £1. If you get to court and the judge finds your worth millions and you're offering a pound, you won't get anywhere! Be honest to yourself and those you owe money to. It can be embarassing to admit you've got problems and can't afford things but the sooner you face reality and deal with it, the better. So don't keep waiting for the debt to disappear or the lottery win to arrive or your fortunes to magically change. It's up to you to change and it's up to you to deal with your debt. Do so at a realistic pace but the sooner you start, the better! There we go. Nothing really new there. It's all the same old stuff....write down your income and your expenditure and see what you have left to pay your debts. Then start paying them. First step is, though, to stop fooling yourself and face up to facts and responsibilities! And I say this as someone who's been a debtor (and still is) and a creditor (and still is) so I know the problems from both sides....and when I'm tucking in to my takeaway, I'm not thinking "oh, I could have used that extra money to pay off some of debt x" but I should be, because when, next day, I'm at work and worrying if I'm going to be able to pay the lady who works for me part-time because client y still hasn't responded to my letters asking him to settle their £100 bill, I'm thinking "I bet he's still watching his Sky TV and having his coffee shop drink at lunchtime!"....... So pay your bills and remember that businesses have bills to pay too. Don't pay for bad service and don't pay ridiculous charges but do pay otherwise.....even if, because of things going wrong in your life, you only pay little but often Rant over (again) or is that more of a sermon? I'll stop hijacking this thread anyway. I'll set up my own thread or advice service and call it "How to put bailiffs and Sherforce out of business..." but it won't be with advice like "here's a good dodge to try" but rather simply "by paying your debts" Now, I must try and practice what I preach!

and in DebtWeary's case, when you do go to court, perhaps you should explain what a difficult time it's been and that you hope to have the money to pay soon and then hopefully PC World will adopt a common-sense attitude and wait for payment. In my common-sense world of everyone facing up to their responsibilities, they would already have been told this! All the best

Since I started Sherbrook off, I feel he can't suffer all the rebukes. I hope DebtWeary gets his stay and then comes to an arrangement to pay the debt in full. I certainly don't want him to pay any ridiculous charges imposed by Sherforce. However....and this may be considered the sanctimonious bit....somewhere, sometime, we've got to get back to facing up to our own responsibilities! We need to sometimes say "it's a fair cop guv". I would love to live in a common-sense world, where nobody could intimidate and bully using the law as an excuse/defence. Where justice and common-sense prevailed. If that world were to work, however, EVERYBODY would have to play their part. So I'm afraid that saying "it was DSG's stupdity in getting my name wrong, not my stupidity, that caused the issue in the first place" is not facing up to facts. You got in trouble because you bought something from PC World that you didn't pay for, then (presumably) ignored red letters from them, never responded to the court claim and never applied for a stay or appealed the CCJ. What has now caused the issue is that you have spotted the OPPORTUNITY to either get out of paying or delay paying (whether you spotted that opportunity when the court papers first arrived or not, it's still an opportunity. In a world of justice and common-sense; that's not on! I realise you've had other things to deal with and I know it is often the people who can't pay that find the likes of Sherforce on their doorstep. I've been one of those people and was fortunate that by the time it reached that stage, I was in a position to start paying. So by ignoring reminders, not contacting the creditor etc, I had bought enough time to get through to where I could pay....so I did! I hope DebtWeary finds themselves in that position too and settles all their debts. In the meantime, please understand that just as some people say things like "oh well, I'll inflate my insurance claim because it doesn't harm anyone, the insurers can pay" if we don't pay our debts on time, we're going to wreck the country! "Look at your client base" may be good advice and that would mean DebtWeary would have avoided all this as PC World would have refused him credit....but would a person turned down by PC World have been happy with that at the time? Would he have gone away and said "it's a fair cop, guv, I can't afford it and they've done the right thing. I must go away and save up or change my plans"? or would that person have moaned about how bad PC World were and gone next door and tried and tried until someone lent him the money including doorstep lenders etc? I may be straying off the point in my rant and I don't want to use DebtWeary as a whipping boy. I was in exactly the same position as them and hope all goes well but I do wish consumers would concentrate on fighting cases where people have been overcharged, wrongly charged, ripped off etc and when that isn't the case, concentrate on finding ways to pay! If you have had bad service, complain and even refuse to pay or only agree to pay less. If you have had good service or got what you wanted, then pay up! Otherwise, honest businessmen will go out of business. PC World are the victim here! Rant over!

sorry the first part of that postcode should be EC4A NOT EC24A so it's: High Courts of Justice Supreme Court Costs Office Clifford's Inn Fetter Lane London EC4A 1DQ tel - 0207 947 6605

In my case, I contacted High Courts of Justice Supreme Court Costs Office Clifford's Inn Fetter Lane London EC24A 1DQ tel - 0207 947 6605

There is news on GMAC which could make your claim easier Ring them on 0800 0304662 (and see their website for details) as the FSA has just fined them and they will automatically be refunding some charges Good luck

I think your job may be easier following the FSA report on GMAC under which GMAC have been told to refund such charges I tried claiming back charges from Kensington at the start of 2008, was refused and went via FOS, eventually getting back (July 2009) half plus 8% interest, so you should expect that as a minimum. If the GMAC news doesn't worry them and Kensington refuse to refund, I would avoid court action and go to FOS, quoting the FSA decision over GMAC's treatment of borrowers in arrears and maybe you'll get all charges refunded Good luck

Sherforce do like to drop things in at the last minute. They are members of the HCEOA, so should be abiding by its Code of Conduct and therefore a BH visit is not allowed. Interestingly, in my case, I raised a query because the letter the Officer posted through my letterbox was dated the day before he called. It wasn’t a major issue (because I knew when he called) but a contradiction in evidence and when I raised this before the Master, Chris Badger said that the date of the letter was a Bank Holiday and Officers can’t call on a BH. What he said would have happened is that when preparing for his visits on the next day (possibly the evening before) an Officer would print off all the letters he would need and those letters would automatically show the date they were printed off. So I reckon that the Officer did this in your case and is actually lying when he says he called on the BH. Let’s see what the CCTV shows but don’t be surprised if you don’t see him. If the Officer decides to change his statement (in the light of the above) then I don’t think he should be allowed to get away with it. Sworn statements are serious things, not just to be written or changed willy nilly. Do you want me to make a sworn statement to this effect about what Chris Badger said before a Master at my Hearing? The Master may even be able to confirm it from his notes. Sending my Witness Statement ‘now’ could let the judge in your case investigate this matter prior to the next Hearing (by contacting the Master in my case). As another minor point, does the letter left by the Offer state that he is an HCEO when in fact he’s not; he’s just working on behalf of an HCEO? Again I raised this at my Hearing and the Master wasn’t particularly interested in the detail (obviously the person calling has the powers of an HCEO but I was just questioning how it was worded feeling it better to say ‘you have been visited by a representative of an HCEO’ or something rather than ‘an HCEO has called today’) but Chris Badger said he would have this wording amended in future. Has he done so? Not a major point but Chris Badger has made statements before a Master in my case and if he’s now going back on them, then this needs reporting by me. In my case, Sherforce were all over the place with who called and when, could not produce copies of letters they claimed to have left on two previous visits (that’s because they never made them) and saying that they levied on a car that was never actually there (as their photograph of my empty driveway proved). All in all, their records were shown to be false and claims about visits etc fabricated. So it should come as no surprise that they look to be pulling similar tricks in your case. They also tried to say they could charge for services such as their Indian Call Centre (when there was no need to call me as I had written with a proposal for payment) a Debtor Services Fee, a Financial Management Fee and an Administration Fee etc, all of which were either unnecessary or disproportionate given that I paid within 2 months using 2 cheques. If someone was to pay at £10 per month over 2 years, I could see an argument for charging some sort of administration fee (not £150 or whatever) but they can’t just charge such things ‘as a matter of course’. When I looked at their records, they had also charged these things at outset, so the fees had nothing to do with me even paying via two cheques. They were going to charge them anyway and how could the fees be justified if they didn’t even know if they would be needed? The truth is that they cannot be justified and they are just trying to pile on as many charges as they can to maximise their profits. Their fees have nothing to do with collecting a debt. They would have charged me £450 in administration-type fees even if I had paid on Day 1. That’s ridiculous and completely destroys any credibility they may try to claim for having to charge to service the instalment plan or account etc. In my view, the best they can hope for is to charge as each service is required and then charge at a reasonable rate – eg maybe £25 for setting up the record on their systems, which would include writing out to their Officer and their client etc. Then if an instalment plan was agreed, maybe charging £1 a payment to cover the administration in banking the cheque or whatever (plus there would be 8%pa interest anyway). Sherforce also say that they have to meet the costs of running a modern, nationwide operation. Well, they don’t have to operate on a nationwide basis and if this is overstretching them, then they should reign back their operation and stick to a service they can afford to provide. Debtors should not be paying for Sherforce to operate beyond their means. In my case, the Master seemed to be in agreement with the above rationale but I never found out because Sherforce withdrew rather than see what judgement he reached. It annoys me, however, that they have not changed at all, as a result of my case but still seem to be operating in the same way. It doesn’t surprise me, just annoys me. Although my case is ‘over’, I think I will contact the Master who dealt with it to make him aware of what Sherforce and Chris Badger are saying and doing. If you need any direct help on your case, please pm me.

Don't pay Sherforce fees they are claiming under Schedule C (which are their visit fees, admin fees etc) and don't pay WPA if no WPA was left or signed. Do try to pay DSG. Write to Sherforce (copying in DSG) saying you will not pay any Schedule C fees and are not able to pay the debt plus interest in full but can offer to pay in instalments of £x. Send your first payment with the letter. Tell Sherforce that if they insist on trying to charge you under Schedule C, you will require a Fees Assessment Hearing (and say you are aware they recently withdrew from such a Hearing, rather than have fees assessed by a Master) but you will not pay them otherwise. State that you will, however, pay the debt in instalments, together with interest and any fees incurred in transferring up. If you want a draft letter to send, pm me and I'll send you the letter I used in my case against Sherforce. I did repay the debt plus interest but not Sherforce's ridiculous charges and they ended up paying me costs. So don't pay ridiculous charges but do pay your debts and actual and reasonable costs incurred as a result of your delay in settling your debt.

"A while ago, I was taken to court by DSG Retail, aka PC World over a debt of around £500. When the Judgement was issued, it had both my name and company name wrong. I wrote and told DSG this and that I would be applying to the Court to have this Judgement set aside as it was incorrect. They told me that they would apply to have it amended but they didn't, but I did nothing further." So you didn't pay PC World, then you didn't actually defend the court claim, then you didn't actually apply for the set aside. Now you're faced with Sherforce! Don't pay Sherforce more than they're entitled to (which will be poundage plus mileage plus court interest plus the costs of transfer up to the High Court) Doing nothing but trying to avoid paying money you owe has put you in the position you are in now. So take responsibility for your debt and concentrate on settling it rather than dodging it. Write to both PC World and Sherforce (probably just one letter to Sherforce but copied to PC World) with an offer to pay by instalments and why not take the initiative by sending the first payment to PC World with your letter? Tell both Sherforce and PC World that you are only prepared to pay Sherforce fees allowed for under HCEO regulations, Schedule A and not those they are claiming for in respect of visits, administration etc as they are disproportionate and have not been agreed by a Master. State that you are aware that Sherforce withdrew from a High Court Costs Hearing in 2009 at which they were unable to justify such fees. If you want any help drafting such a letter, let me know as I can provide the one I used in that case. In your case, I could see Sherforce being justified in making some sort of charge for administering an instalment plan, so be prepared to have to pay something for that (plus ongoing interest). My advice to everyone (as someone who has not always paid my debts on time but always intends to and has done eventually - or is doing - and as a small businessman who is fed up with customers not responding to requests for payment) is that if you are in financial difficulty, don't try to hide or dodge. Concentrate on getting yourself over your difficulties and, in the meantime, offer to pay by instalments. Even an offer of £1 per month would save me on the postage I spend on reminders, let alone any other action. I'd rather have more but.... And what it also means is that if further action is taken (eg court) you can show a judge that you have tried to pay back and I think most judges will recognise these. If you can't pay, you can't pay, so the judge won't say to pay more and in fact would criticise any court action even starting. But obviously pay what you can afford (again, the principle is to pay, not to dodge) so if you know you can affor £10 per month, then pay £10. Maybe settle early if you can. Take positive action! You must be able to afford to pay something, so pay it.

Thanks I've pmd 'LFB' but to both you and Gustavius, I'm afraid I've been at the sharp end of not having people pay me and I'm afraid that, in my opinion, as long as there are people who won't pay (£1 a month is OK but I'm talking about those who just try to dodge out of paying) there is a need for bailiffs and HCEOs I am currently owed around £6,000 by around 40 people (varying from £30 to £250 owed). Please can you tell me how I get this back? That's a lot of money to me and without it my business has been held back and I've lost other customers because I couldn't afford to buy materials etc to do their work I've tried writing, telephoning, emailing and then I took court action in the £250 case (having never got a reply and waiting a year) got judgement, still no replies to my messages, paid further money to get warrant to court bailiff who never got a reply at house. So I have spent over £100 and got nowhere. It's not worth spending that on the smaller debts, so please tell me how I get this money back. I believe everyone should pay their debts. I just don't believe those trusted to collect it should mis-use their position and take the opportunity to make huge profits.....but HCEO action works Please tell me how I get back the money owed to me

In my case, I paid £40 in order to request a Fees Assessment with a CPR 8 Form and then attended a 'Hearing' with Sherforce where they, I belive, actually, I believe, formally requested a Hearing (and paid £300, which, had I lost, could have meant I had to pay them that) At that first 'meeting' Chris Badger plus a Costs Draughtsman attended (I believe Chris Badger is a qualified solicitor as well as an HJCEO) and the same two attended the later Hearing At the first one, Sherforce produced a 'Bill of Costs' setting out all their charges (I already had another list that I'd requested when they first contacted me) and the Master said this would form the basis of the case He then said I had to send in my comments on this bill of costs, with reasons why I was querying each or any fee and then Sherforce had 14 days to respond and then we would (effectively) debate this at the Hearing This happened and when I turned up for the Hearing Sherfocre gave me a bundle they had prepared which included new documents (of course they claimed to have posted it to me already) but this didn't throw me although I immediately noticed some errors and contradictions thrown up by their new evidence We then attended the Hearing and without me even saying anything, the Master started to question them on something (so you can be sure the Master will read things through and know what he's fdoing). Anyway, as said above, I knew I was in the right and they really had made a mess of my case in many ways. The Master, however, gave them the opportunity to fill in gaps and clarify things (including proof that they paid £175 to the officer who visited each time) and gave them a month to provide the answers. They then requested another month (so they could consult Counsel) then they 'vacated the hearing' withdrawing their bill of costs This meant they avoided a verdict and I then sent them my costs invoice which they paid You should take details of your costs with you as (as in my first case against a different HCEO who tried to rip me off) the Master will normally ask about these when he announces his verdict. Obviously if you lose, it may be them that give the Master their costs to be paid! I was obviously delighted to win (and relieved as there's always the worry that the right person will not win) in the sense of getting my costs and not having to pay their charges. I was however frustrated Sherforce had not formally lost and therefore had a Costs Judge rule against them. Sherforce had the chance in my case to justify their fees and thus end arguments about whether or not they can charge £175 per visit. Instead they chose to avoid a verdict. What does that tell you about their charges and what does that tell you about their belief in what they're doing being right? Challenge their fees and don't let them get another penny By the time of the later Hearing, Sherforce had provided a bundle, with evidence from their computer records and a sworn Statement from Chris Badger. I didn't have to provide a sworn statement