Well I DID hear or read somewhere very recently that a bailiff can only serve/enforce a warrant for an unpaid parking ticket at the address at which it was issued - presumably this would also mean that they couldn't clamp/remove the car legally at any other address. Just because they are going around with ANPR cameras in London doesn't mean they're acting legally, we all know the stunts they get up to. I wish I could remember where I heard this - it might actually have been on the BBC programme but I definately remember it because I remember saying to the missus at the time "that's interesting, that's something I didn't know!"

Update: The IP now says that the agreement is a standard IVA, not a fast-track IVA (FTVA). However it is my understanding that once in bankruptcy (as is my partner's case) you can ONLY have an FTVA. If that's the case then surely this IVA is invalid/null and void? Any help appreciated.

Thank you, very much appreciated.

Yes basically my head went down completely having lost the appeal - I had only gone to court to request an adjourment anyway - and from that point the solicitor, who promised much but did nothing - basically suggested the IVA hence we are in he position we are in now. I was spending hours and hours trying to get help, info etc. and getting nowhere so decided to put my energies into my business and concentrate on raising money rather than trying to get rid of the debt via an increasingly unlikely annulment. The overwhelming message that kept coming back to me was "you won't get it overturned because you owe the money", even the solicitor was singing that tune as time went on. What hurts more than anything is the O.R.'s appearance in court - given that we were appealing that the bankruptcy should never have happened in the first place surely they had no reason to attend? The O.R. only comes into the frame at the point you are made bankrupt, not before! What happens before that is surely no concern of theirs? Again it all stinks of being stitched up by the system, but it's hard to keep fighting, and even finding the time to do so, when you are getting nowhere and your head is permanently in bits, especially as I have been working 60-70 hours every week to try and raise what I can.

Original thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/48917-made-bankrupt-how-overturn.html?highlight=bankruptcy

There is a thread somewhere, I'll try and find it. It was my partner, not me that was made bankrupt for council tax arrears (because she is the sole owner of the property). We hired a solicitor to try and get it annuled because we didn't receive the statutory papers - these seem to have been posted by the process server through somebody else's letterbox as the house he described on his witness statement described a completely different property - but basically the solicitor was hopeless and did little or nothing. Towards the end of the bankruptcy at the end of last year we were told that the creditors (there are two) would apply for the property if we didn't pay up, and it would be cheaper to convert it to an IVA and this would annul the bankruptcy (see my IVA thread for more details). Sadly we have been misinformed and badly advised throughout. What is sickening is we were not in any financial trouble UNTIL the bankrupcy occured - although we had been through a few rough years which led to the arrears, I offered to pay the council the £4000 outstanding five months before the bankruptcy happened but was told that they couldn't accept it as the matter was in the hands of their solicitors who would be contacting us. They never did do, and the next thing we heard was a letter from the O.R. stating that my partner had been made bankrupt. Even now I'm earning very good money but am stuck with a huge bill and have not been given a decent amount of time to pay, so it's looking like we are going to be forced to sell or try and get a back door remortgage and pay huge fees over the next few years for what was originally a £4k debt that I could have easily paid! The whole thing is absurd!

The solicitor originally advised us to go for the IVA because it would be a cheaper option than remaining in bankruptcy, mainly because of the trustee costs. At no point was any right they might have to repossess ever mentioned, when the IP came to our house at 9pm one night the contract was already drawn up. No discussion ever took place about the fact that we could have asked for a longer term, we were basically told that it had to be settled within 12 months (prior to signing) and the IP basically pushed it along, going on about it was the very last day my partner could sign as the documents had to be in court the next day as we were out of time (though when I phoned up to check the next day I was told she had gone on holiday for a few days; good for her), and that she still had an 80-mile drive home and it was late etc. etc. Nothing was ever explained to us, except that when I asked what happened if we did not have the money in place after six months - which I told her was unlikely as I planned to raise it myself rather than remortgage - she said "Nothing to worry about, you can always extend it". No question that the IP will not accept any liability, you can take that as a given. However the important point for us is, can we cancel it, i.e. make some sort of claim through the authorities or whatever that we were mis-sold the IVA, mainly on the fact that the IP was (and still is) claiming that the bankruptcy cannot be annuled until it is paid in full, and that that information has been given to companies we have spoken to over the phone when asking if we can refinance (i.e. they have said "no" because my partner is still bankrupt, or a discharged bankrupt as oppose to being in a IVA, and we have been told that basically there is "no chance" of a remortgage BECAUSE of this (incorrect) fact. The other, probably more important point, is if we CAN get the IVA cancelled, what happens then as we technically still owe the money? What I am getting at is I would really like a 2-year deal which would be easily manageable and had we been offered that in the first place we would not be in this position now, and that is wholly down to the wrong information (in the case of the annulment issue) and lack of information (in that we were misled into believing that the maximum term for the IVA is 12 months) given to us by the IP. I will be writing to them for their comments before making an official complaint, but it's getting some reliable professional advice (without being fleeced again) that is the difficult part and that's what we need the most at the moment.

Just a word of caution, if you own a property the creditors will force you to sell that to get their money if you are made bankrupt, so while wiping out any debts you could also lose your home and will find it nigh on impossible to get a mortgage in the future; that's my understanding of it anyway and is what we are going through at the moment. Additionally it doesn't wipe out everything, my partner is still being chased by the water board for around £2000. Our position is a bit strange as the bankrupcy has since been converted to a fastrack IVA, but we would have had to sell the property, and still may have to, to pay off the huge costs involved (over £25 for an original £6k debt), and have been told that if the IVA fails then there is nothing to stop the creditors applying for bankrupcy again, so it doesn't necessarily wipe out the debts. As a result of the costs involved we are in a far worse mess now than we ever were before the bankruptcy. I don't even begin to understand any of it.

To cut a VERY long story short - this is a follow on from a bankruptcy back in Dec 2006 - we were advised by the solicitor we hired to fight the bankruptcy but who did nothing, to go for a Fastrack IVA, that is an IVA taken out after the bankruptcy. He recommended an Insolvency Practitioner who basically gave us 6 months to refinance and pay off the debt (£22,000) or a further six months in which to sell the house to pay it off. The first six months has passed and we are now being told that we MUST put the property up for sale within 14 days or they will claim the IVA has failed and apply for repossession. However, the main issue is that we have been unable to refinance because the the IP told us we have to pay off the whole debt BEFORE the bankruptcy can be annuled. I have since found out that this is not the case, and the bankruptcy HAS been annuled, but because of the current credit situation in the UK we can not now obtain the finance that we would have been able to six months ago had we been given the correct information. So that's the first point on which we were misled. Other points include: * We were told a creditors meeting was required, and have been charged for this. Apparently a meeting was NOT a requirement. * We were told at the time that the IVA term had to be a maximum 12 months, although I now know that we could have asked for longer. Ideally I would have liked to have been given two years as I could raise the money in that time without refinancing. * No mention of repossession was ever mentioned if the IVA failed. * We have been put under a lot of undue stress and strain as a result of the situation they have put us in. Can we get the IVA cancelled, and what would happen to the debt if we did? I understand the original creditors could reapply to make us bankrupt, but I am in a position to pay them off (£6,000), but not the extra costs, i.e. trustees, official receiver, creditors solicitors costs etc. I know we can make an official complaint but the important question is what position does that leave us in? It is my belief that the IP is responsible for putting us in an untenable position re. refinancing when if they had offered us a two-year IVA to begin with instead of claiming that 1 year was the maximum we would not have been in the position of needing to refinance and/or sell the property. We are both around 50 years old and would struggle to get another mortgage with the IVA on the records so that really is a last resort for us.

That's the answer I expected to be honest, however they are basically asking (or 'inviting') me to pay a fine and I haven't been fined. In this sense I feel the wording on their website and indeed their phone lines mean that they are referring to this as a fine and therefore implying I have to pay a fine when I don't because it isn't a fine.

Of course it is illegal to refer to a penalty charge as an catual parking fine, because technically it's not a fine. The ticket itself is worded correctly (the council had to change their illegally worded tickets a while back). But on the local council's website, it states: "Pay your parking fine online. you will need your PCN number and a valid email address to complete online." Their automated telephone payment line also refers to it as a "fine". So given that they are asking me to pay a fine when in fact it isn't, does this render the charge invalid?

I sent a very nasty letter to a similar private company who placed a "parking ticket" on my car at Deepdale Retail Park, Preston, Lancs, a few months ago. I told them that they had no legal right to fine me and as far as concerned they were attempting to obtain money by deception, and that if they chose to pursue it I would be taking legal action against them with a view to having them prosecuted for this offence. Never heard another word.

I read somewhere (on this forum i think but i can't find it) that there is a debt collection agency who specialise in fighting Paypal chargebacks on a no-win-no-fee basis. Does anybody know who they are?

I suspect that their plan was to assume that if I couldn't afford the repayments then I couldn't afford to fight the case, and from their point of view it's probably not a bad plan as in a lot of cases that would probably be true. Add that to the point blank refusal to confirm whether or not they ever had a court order or to tell me where, if it existed, it would have been issued from and you are effectively forced to make a decision whether or not to potential throw good money after bad in fighting the case , without ever being 100% sure that no court order existed. I believe that this "call our bluff" attitude was probably intended to be their ace. Frankly I am disgusted that I was fobbed off and had to take any action at all. Although it's a good result I'm self-employed and the aggravation it caused me at the time plus the essential car hire fees (almost £400) plus the solicitor's fees (again almost £400) should have been paid too. On the other hand it's a settlement reached wthout having to go to court, and thus has been settle a lot earlier and at a lot less (initial) expense than might have been the case if I had needed to pursue it through the courts. I haven't finished with them yet though - I want the file on my credit records amending and unbelievably I am still getting letters from their Nottingham office asking me to repay them - I received one on the 6th November (ironically the same day that my solicitor received their settlement cheque), which reads, "We refer to the Notice of Default issued from this office on 30th March 2007. In order to protect our interests your hire purchase agreement has now been terminated and the full balance of the account is now payable. Depending on what you have paid this means we may either repossess the above vehicle or apply for a court order without further notice (etc. etc. blah blah blah). Absolutely staggering! I have since received a further reminder too. My initial thoughts are to let them waste some more money and take it to court then put in a counterclaim, but we'll see. Re. the police, I should have a strong case against them now that I have won my case against Welcome but I will make a decision on that in due course. You couldn't make it up!

RESULT! My solicitor received a phone call from the finance co. in which they said that they "accepted they had made a mistake" and would settle in full. She received a cheque from them a week ago which cleared a couple of days ago, and she has sent me a cheque for the balance minus her fees. The total recovered was just under £8,000. Thanks to everybody for their help, advice and contributions to this thread.

I know what you're say trying to say but that's the whole point surely - the police did NOT ensure that the 'guys in front of them' had the authority to collect it. They couldn't have done, it's impossible, because that authority - i.e. a court order - did not exist! I agree that chasing the police over this is a tricky one and probably more hassle than it's worth which is why I have gone down the easier , probably cheaper and probably more productive route of chasing Welcome. I fail to see though how quietly sitting in the car for the sole purpose of preventing the collection agents to illegally take it consitutes a breach of the peace! If they (Welcome) were not legally permitted to take the vehicle - and we have claified that fact long ago - I still maintain that technically they have taken it without consent which is theft whichever way you look at it. THe police should have made sure they had the required documentation, they failed to do that and if there is a case against the police it is surely on that basis; why they were called out is completely irrelevant.

Nothing as yet, I have not had the chance to contact the solicitors but will be doing so early next week to see if they have received any reply. If not I will be instructing her to press ahead with court proceedings. I will update the thread with any new developments as and when they happen. Thanks for your support folks, much appreciated.

Thanks, PM sent.

No, I haven't moved. We are 99.9% certain that a court order does NOT exist, the problem to date is that Welcome are refusing to answer all enquiries so unless they tell us there was/wasn't or name the court it was issued at if there was one it's a matter of trying to find out for sure. I guess they are calling my bluff knowing that it will cost me a fair sum to take them to court, and they probably assume that if I couldn't afford the repayments then I can't afford to pursue the matter.

Huh? Not according to the HP agreement I had! It quite clearly states: "REPOSSESSION: YOUR RIGHTS If you fail to keep to your side of the agreement but you have paid at least one third of the total amount payable under the Agreement, that is (handwritten in box) £4072.53 we may not take back the goods against your wishes unless we get a Court Order. (In Scotland we may need at get a Court Order at any time). If we do take them without your consent or a court order, you have the right to get back all the money you have paid under the agreement." I most certainly had paid more than one third and as far as we can ascertain to date, the finance company did not have a court order. A solicitor is dealing with that issue on my behalf at this time.

The major problem is that regardless of what the law says and although we know more or less what they can and can't do, as this thread shows they do it anyway and given that the police are not interested we have little if any protection against the bailiffs breaking the law. For example my car should not have been taken a few months ago by the finance company because thery didn't have a court order. But having called for police assistance, all I got was threatened with arrest if I didn't get out of the car and allow them to take it. On this occasion bailiffs tried to force entry and damaged the property in doing so. Again the police took no action. In fact I'm almost grateful! Given what happened with the car, I'm almost surprised the police didn't force me to let them in!

I'm dreadfully confused about all this. Various people are saying they can/can't force entry in respect of the parking fine which of course is a civil issue. I'm still none the wiser.

Ok first of all the important point here is that the bailiffs called to collect the unpaid PCN, NOT the unpaid fine!!! That's why I am so aggrieved at their attempts to force entry - they are absolutely not allowed to do that for a civil debt, I know that for certain! They only became aware of the unpaid fine when they checked in, at this point they were locked out and the police officer was inside. The bailiff shouted through the letterbox that they had discovered I had an unpaid magistrates court fine and would be back with a locksmith. That is precisely why I wanted to get that paid off and wasn't particularly worried about the parking debt. The fine was issued (according to the magistrates court in) January 2006, however this is a bit strange. I first knew about this when I was called to court in August 2006 to answer why I had not paid the fine, which was for failing to name the driver etc. I had not received any documentation and explained this to the court and it was overturned. However the police took it back to court and I was convicted in February this year. The fine was £150 + £60 costs. I have had no documentation since and in all honesty had forgotten about it. The magistrates court told be today that a distress warrant had been issued back in April this year. Drakes charged me £360 today even though they have never previously wirtten to me about this or called before in relation to this. With regard to the PCN, I know nothing about it but it was apparently issued in January this year. The first I knew of it was a letter (not in an envelope) posted through the door on 5th October at 6.30 am, the time on the letter issued by the same bailiff. This gives a breakdown which says Fine(s) (even though it's not technically a fine) - £95.00. Admin Fees (inc VAT if applicable) £13.86. Attendance costs (inc VAT if applicable) £175.94. Total £284.10. The total appears to have risen today to £463.51 which given that this is only the second visit seems a lot to me. EDIT: Just to clarify, the £463 quoted on the mailing today only relates to the parking fine debt, not the magistrates court fine.

Thanks for the advice folks. I've been fending them off for years and have heard of the tricks they get up to. Even so it has left me shocked at what they did; not so much that they tried to force their way in but having attempted to shut the door, then continued to do so for a further ten minutes or so. Such was the force used that my back and shoulder is killling me at the moment from the strain of trying to hold the door shut - that's an indication of just how much force was used, it wasn't just a case of him leaving his foot in the door. I'm more angry at the police though, who did nothing for the SECOND time this year after calling for their assistance. To my mind an arrest should have been made for: 1. Falsely claiming to be an officer of Norhampton County Court 1. Attempting to forceably gain illegal entry (or whatever you call it) 2. Criminal damage - it seems they told the police that the glass broke when I slammed the door on his foot; not true, it gave way a minute or so later after his constant pressure on the door. In any event I had asked him to leave and he should not have been trying to focre his way in, that action alone led to the damage occurring.

That's not really the issue. I have bitten the bullet and phones Drakes head office to pay the outstanding magistrates court fine and they assure me that no other payment would be taken from my card. They also stated that I should not have been told that I would have to pay for both fines. However as a precaution I may now my bank to issue with with a new card and number, although I could really do without the inconvenience as I am away from home most days, only have the one debit card and use it several times a day. I will be making written complaints to various bodies but I'm more concerned about my rights when the bailiffs have a distress warrant (irrelevant now I've paid), but can they or can't they force entry? My solicitor says not, National Debtline says they can, similar mixed opinions from C.A.B and others I've phoned so on. I'm furious that the police refused to act on the offences comitted, and am left with the chocie of trying to claim for the damage in the small claims court in which case it's my word against theirs, but more importantly they are free to harrass other people in the same way having literally got away wth it thanks once again to the inefficiency of the police.